Hawaiian Flame Wrasse Question

[FishGuy5]

If i had 2 Hawaiian Flame Wrasse females, would one eventually turn male? Not quite sure. Thanks for the help

[jdieck]

I doubt it. If their behaviour is similar to the lineatus, it is more likely that a young male becames submisive for a while but even then once he becomes an adult he will eventually fight the other male.
BTW I just got a flame male yesterday.

[FishGuy5]

what about FEMALES??

[philter4]

Eventually the dominant one will become male, it may take longer if you have other related super males, but one will become male over time.

[FishGuy5]

that's what I was told. Anyone have this happen in your tank?

[snorvich]

Yes. I had a harem of flames (1 male, 4 females) and the male died. The dominant female became male. Note well, that I had different sized females in the harem.

[z's_N_p's]

from what I've read, that is the case... good luck..

[cwoods8]

happened to me a couple of weeks ago.....much more amazing to see the change from female to male in person.

[z's_N_p's]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12691963#post12691963 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cwoods8
happened to me a couple of weeks ago.....much more amazing to see the change from female to male in person.

any progression pics by any chance?

[triggerfish1976]

But do they become terminal males?

[snorvich]

That is questionable. Not all males become terminal males.

[buzzbombtom]

i have also heard that the color that they have will not be quite the same as what they would be in the wild. p.s. i got the second best make in the shipment that you got yours in. i put pics up in the thread in mars. :)

[cwoods8]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12693121#post12693121 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by z's_N_p's
any progression pics by any chance?


Actually.....my camera was uncharged....and could not find the charger....(mostly i was too lazy to find it)

This is not the first time i have had flames......a couple of years ago i had a harem of three......(1 terminal male and 2 females). Probably the best looking flames i have seen...

Aggression amongst female flames are known.....one was more dominant than the other, and i assume this is the reason the lesser of the two went carpet surfing. Stuck with two, i figured that things would work out. To my surprise, the female began to show aggression towards the male and began to flash bravely in his presence. I couldn't believe what i was seeing......she changed into a terminal male.......colors were much more intense than the original male......to the point where the now-male had purple along with the red and yellow coloration. Well they tolerated each other for awhile...(i didn't have another tank set up to seperate them)....mind you the tank was covered...except for that one slit in the back!)

Well the big one eventually got his way.......little male....caught the banzai pipeline!

[cwoods8]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12693483#post12693483 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by triggerfish1976
But do they become terminal males?


Hit or miss.......i was lucky enough to see one go supermale, my current one has still not.

[Macimage]

Is a terminal male the same as a supermale? What makes terminal males/super males different than regular males?

I imagine you are referring to more brightly colored males. If so, why are there two types of males?

Joyce

[cwoods8]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12695635#post12695635 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Macimage
Is a terminal male the same as a supermale? What makes terminal males/super males different than regular males?

I imagine you are referring to more brightly colored males. If so, why are there two types of males?

Joyce

To answer the first question.........yes.......super/terminal males will often be bigger than females or initial males while supporting intense coloration...(incredibly intense)

Like most animals (as well as male homosapiens;) ), the idea is to attract as many females as one can....i.e....the best genes wins...
Harems are often formed with one terminal male and many females, and perhaps initial males (in flames.....same color patterns as terminal...but often dull and small)....

Hope that clarified things up a little.....:D

[Macimage]

Do all initial males become super males at some point or do they remain just average males for their entire lives?

Thanks!
Joyce

[philter4]

The research in the wild says no, not all males become supermales. I have read (so it must be true LOL)in blue head wrasse that super males are fish that actually became males either very young or were born male, either way, they were functional male while still small and with female color.

The other problem in aquariums is that the males in the wild become supermale by dominance and use pharamones to stop other females and younger males from becoming supermale. This is important because in a fish tank we keep other closely related fish in the same tank and it is very possible that a closely related fish could be preventing the flame from changing to a supermale.

This means that in your tank you have to have all the conditions correct for a fish to change to a supermale, you have to have a fish that is genetically programmed to be a supermale and you have to eliminate all competitors that would stop him from the change.