first try at sps.....

[blackthunda77]

well not really, ive had sps like 1-2 pieces for the past 4 months or so but im trying to get more into it so im a newbie, hence the rappy colors they are showing me. also 2 pieces are not showing much polyp extension. any input? also i know this is not the ID section so ill try to post there as well but if any of you have some input as to whatthese pieces might be so i can get more detailed caring instructions that would be awsome!

sorry for the crappy pics so i know IDing will be near to impossible. this one is alil lighter in color and the guy i got it from said its supposed to have purpleish tips.
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/9646/24122563sq0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/9646/24122563sq0.5a4ec7a590.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=518&i=24122563sq0.jpg)

this one has a darker color but has neon green polyps but since i got it it has not shown any PE, justenough though to see the color of them.
http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/391/42523255uo4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/391/42523255uo4.45f6cd5cb1.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=128&i=42523255uo4.jpg)

this one has crappy color also, the guy told me it is supposed ot havea greenish body but atleastthis one has awsome PEalthough it receded some tissue towards the bottom but seems to have stoped.
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/1179/60915334ck2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/1179/60915334ck2.d2e7332c45.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=518&i=60915334ck2.jpg)

my params are calc about 410, alk about 5-6 meq/L mag i have not tested, phosphates say 0 but i doubt itand nitrates i believe are around 30but tomorrow im am going to the LFS and they will test all my params so i will be able to cross check them with my kits whichi ibelieve to be crap!

[saltyliving]

need more info. what kinda lighting do you have. and did you say your nitrates are 30. thats way to high! how long has your tank been set up. give us more info. those acros look very unhappy.

[blackthunda77]

tank has been up for more than 2 yrs so thats not the probelm most likely, and even before the 2 yrs, the tank was previously set up at my parents house for about 3 yrs. so the rocks and most corals are about that old. lighting is 2 250mhs. its over a 55 gal tank with a 15 gal sump and a 20 gal refugium. flow is 1 koralia 3 and one koralia 1 and a seio 1100. also added a RS belin turbo skimmer about 3 weeks ago. calc and alk is maintained with randy 2 part with mag also. previously was maintianed with bionic 2 part. those sps that i showed have been added in the last week to 2 weeks. i have frags of monti digis and encrusting montis that are shwoing good growth and PE, the bases are a little brown but the polyps are electric red, electric green etc. also have a monti cap that ive had for about 2 yrs which i still have and is growing very well. seems like the acros families and the branching stuff is what gives me probliems.

[blackthunda77]

also dont quote me on the nitrates. ill have more specific readings tomrrow after work. :)

[saltyliving]

if the trates are that high and you have any P02 that could be the problem. acros are alot more finiky. i kept a monti under pc light and had nitrates around 15. it did well. as im sure you know Acros require prestine water quality. Do you have any nuisance algea?

[blackthunda77]

no actually ive been maintaining my tank pretty well since about the beginning of the year, so for about 6 months eveythings been going good. i even got the refugium up and going with cheato, and shaving brush macro thats showing good signs of growth. some people have told me that the problem might be my leathers i have in the same tank, a toadstool and some sinularia.

[blackthunda77]

Ok well ike i mentioned yesterday, i got my parameters tested like i said i would. I went to the LFS at lunch. this is how they stand.

The testkits were mostly sera, from what i saw, so you guys can chime in n the quality of that kit, i dont know.....

CALC........480
ALK..........8dkh
MAG.........1380
PHOS.......<0 (undetectable)

those were my main concerns

PH...........7.6
AMM........0
TRITE......0 (taken with dip stick test kit):rolleye1:
TRATE.....0 (taken with dip stick test kit):rolleye1:


with th PH, i took the sample this morning on my way to work, most likely just the daily ph swing, ill test again tonight when i get home.

any other suggestions?

[saltyliving]

as you know dip test are not accurate. maybe the leathers are the problem do you run carbon

[saltyliving]

as you know dip test are not accurate. maybe the leathers are the problem do you run carbon

[saltyliving]

or do you have another tank you can tranfer them to. even better trade them for store credit for more sps frags

[blackthunda77]

i do run chemi-pure and chemi-pure elite. i dont have another tank big enough for the leathers with sufficient lighting. i might try to frag them out, or get some store credit. what would give off more toxins? a neon green finger leather(sinularia)sp? or a toadstool teather? id kind of like the toadstool though, its hosting my clowns when its open at night, otherwise they sleep in the xenia, thats left. most of the xenia has receded since i strated getting on top of the tank and do frequent water changes. before it used to multiply like crazy.

[reeftivo]

Your Ph is'nt helping you need to get it up to 8.2-8.3, your calcium is good along with your magnesium but at night, with a Ph that low, the Ph is dropping drastically and then slightly rebounds as the lights and bioload increases during photoperiods. It most likely is'nt increasing enough. You may want to add a good Ph/Alk buffer first thing in the morning before the lights come on. (JMO)

[reeftivo]

A good dkh buffer will also help raise your alkalinity

[blackthunda77]

Thats what i do though, im adding randys 2part calc and alk supplements, with the mag additive. i add it usually in the morn before i go to work. ill test it tonight around 7 when i get home. lights come on at 2 and go off at 1030 so it should be a pretty accurate reading.

[reeftivo]

Are you dosing Kalk?

[blackthunda77]

nope, i use to dose B-ionic 2 part but i ran out and someone gave me a batch of unused randys 2 part so i followed the directions and have been using that for about 2 weeks, but ive been dosing on the light side, maybe ill bump up the dosage. weird thing though is that calc is right where it needs to be but its alil harder raising the alk. is it ok to add more of the alk supplement than the calc? on the directions it say to add both equally. thanks for the help by the way.

[reeftivo]

Your photoperiod is a bit on the short side for sps. average is 9 to 11 hrs. You may want to bump it up a bit. Also if you decide to dose kalk You can avoid large Ph swings by dosing it slowly at night. The key is slowly.

[blackthunda77]

i shortened the photoperiod because those corals i aquired are one about 2 weeks old now in my tank. Im acclimating them to my tank and lighting slowly. thats the way right?

[reeftivo]

Yes, sorry, I did'nt know they were newbies LOL. It seems your water perameters are pretty good. Just need a little tweeking. I would however watch the leathers. If they are happy they should not be a problem but if they are constantly shrinking and expanding which generates a lot of sluff (Slime coat) being released into the water, then the toxin level they normally secrete will be increased and also your doc's (dissolved organics)will increase greatly. What type of skimmer are you using?

[blackthunda77]

yea they do retract and expand almost every noght, but not always. i didnt know that thats when they secrete the toxins. interesting. i actually havent been running a skimmer at all until recently, and on my budget all i could afford was a used RS berlin turbo skimmer. i know most say they are crap but i actually tuned mine in enough so that is take out about 1-2 cups a week of skimmate, dark stuff too, im not really wet skimming. maybe i should skim wetter?

[reeftivo]

dissolved organics will load up the water molecule and wont let your sps feed well. Your tests will seem adequate but the doc's will build up fast without a good skimmer.

[saltyliving]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12765802#post12765802 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by blackthunda77
but ive been dosing on the light side, maybe ill bump up the dosage. weird thing though is that calc is right where it needs to be but its alil harder raising the alk. is it ok to add more of the alk supplement than the calc? on the directions it say to add both equally. thanks for the help by the way.

I would bump up the alk my tank has a larger calcium demand thand alk. this is common i have seen it go both ways. i dose 20% more calcium than alk with my 2 part.

[reeftivo]

Buy a good nitrate test kit and avoid any dip tests as they are subject to age of the reactive litmus paper used and are very unreliable.

[saltyliving]

your skimmer needs to be pulling out as mucha as possible. may if the docs are the case a couple big WC and the skimmer working hard will do it.

what do you use for top off

[blackthunda77]

i have been doing water changes actually, about 10 gal 2 times a week and its only a 55 gal system with a 20 gal refugium. i usually use RO water i buy from the LFS but sometimes when that runs out i sadly do use tap water. Im saving up for a rodi unit. is there a way to test for DOCs or is that basically the nitrate issue?

[reeftivo]

ultimately the docs are converted to nitrate but can accumulate in the system increasingly over time and WC and skimming may not be able to keep up depending on efficiency of the skimmer and number of water changes. You dont want to replace too much water at a time for fear of breaking the balance of the system. Your lighting should be more than enough but with all that heat you must have a lot of evapration. Are you running an ATO set up? and if so what kind?

I'm currently running a tunze osmolator ATO with static sensor (great unit!) and I pull RO water from a five gallon bucket next to the tank which is disguised as a planter. The ATO keeps my salinity at a constant 1.024. The nice thing with this unit is you can run a kalk doser(not reactor) right inside the unit and it will dose kalk everytime your system tops off.

[blackthunda77]

ok so i tested my ph when i got home and it was around 8.0 so i knew it was gonna come up, but i still need to bump it up a bit. also i tested my nitrates with my test kit at home and it def was not showing 0, more like somewhere between 10-20 so im thinking around 15 or so.

[reeftivo]

as you know, you need to get those nitrates down. I realize the LFS had a reading of 0 and you are showing 10-20ppm then you should base your perameters on the 10-20 reading just to be safe. Several questions: what are you feeding and how much? How deep is your sand bed(what type?) What do you have for a good clean-up crew? If frequent water changes do not help much along with good skimming then you have something in the system generating nitrates and you need to figure out what it is.

Sps corals need pristine water to thrive. Some species will tolerate slightly elevated nitrates such as cluster acros but I dont know of any others that will.

[blackthunda77]

i have about a 3-4 inch sand bed. just added 10 more hermits and 10 more astreas this weekend. 5 of each in my refugium and main display. im keeping an eye on my trates though, but they have been seeming to come down recently, so im testing more frequently. ill keep you uys updated. i dont feed to mcuh so i doubt thats the probelm.

[reeftivo]

do you vacuum your sand bed? with a sand bed that deep you may be getting excessive anerobic pockets if your sand bed buddies are'nt doing the job. also, if you get circulation dead spots where you can see food settle after feeding then you may need to get better flow behind your live rock. these are hot spots for nitrate build up. I know some people recommend leaving the bed alone but if you vac the first inch or so you wont upset the bacterial balance. Just dont vacuum to deep! If you dont vacuum then you need some good bed stirring critters such as the astreas you mentioned along with nassarius snails which will literally live in and out of the sand bed eating all the goodies. another awsome bed bug is the fighting conch but they may become too big. certain brittle stars are really good too!

good luck!

keep us informed(-:

[CLOWNSPUR]

i agree with reeftivo