power outage solution?

[sk8rreefgeek]

Is there an electrically controlled valve that can be used for this?

for example, the valve would need electricity to stay open, then if the power went out it would shut?

I know it's possible, and I'm sure it's out there.
Anyone have info on this?

Is this a dumb idea? all comments welcome...

[ScottL4619]

What are you trying to accomplish with this valve?

[sk8rreefgeek]

avoiding a flood from an overflow, due to a power outage

[huntinweim]

I know they make them but they aren't cheap...there was a tank that used them as a wavemaker...pulsing on and off.

Are you trying to use one as way to stop flow to the sump when the return pump stops???

[huntinweim]

I have heard of some guys using computer battery backups to keep smaller tanks running...circ. pump or two only...don't know how long it would last.

[Slakker]

A. Build enough room in your sump to accomodate the drain water.
B. Drill a hole in your return line just below the water level to break a siphon if the power DOES go out.

[sk8rreefgeek]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12788049#post12788049 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by huntinweim
trying to use one as way to stop flow to the sump when the return pump stops???


exactly! seems like an easy fix to an ongoing problem. I'll bet 1 out of 3 people with sumps have had a flood once or twice. I read about them all the time.
I'm building mine now, so I'm trying to cover all the bases

[sk8rreefgeek]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12788070#post12788070 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Slakker
A. Build enough room in your sump to accomodate the drain water.
B. Drill a hole in your return line just below the water level to break a siphon if the power DOES go out.

A. the sump I'm building is approx 16.9 gallons (ID's)
I'd like to use as much as possible

B. sounds OK, but I'd like to try and find this mysterious valve I've created in my head lol

[GoSUV]

Drill not 1, not 2, but 3 siphon break holes on your return line. You'll never know, one might be blocked by algae or calcium/lime buildup, another might be covered by a stray snail who just happens to be at the wrong place at the wrong time, and you still have one spare to break siphon should the power go out.

I have 3 siphon break holes and one of them is ABOVE the water line, pointed down to the water, away from lighting. I get no venturi effect (air bubbles) as long as I throttle the return so that the hole is always trickle dripping instead of drawing in air.

[ScottL4619]

If I had to take a guess, I would say that a valve like you are talking about would be plagued with the same issues as using a check valve. IE: it would get gunk built up and not close all the way (or at all).

[Slakker]

I actually have a siphon break above the water line drilled into the underside of the 90 elbow at the top of my return line...I do need to add more though, as it still siphons.

[bubbly]

on melevsreef.com there is a design for a system that will "fail safe" both ways -- the sump pump is in a separate "overflow" compartment so that it won't empty all the sump water into the tank if there is not enough incoming water for some reason.

I like the way that you are thinking -- a flood would really suck. Just make sure that you test it every now and again by turning off the power and seeing what happens.

There are people that like to have their outflows from the bottom of the tank, and I don't like that kind of reasoning -- if there is a problem then the whole tank empties. I like a system that "self-levels" in case of a power outage.

I think a system that uses the natural behavior of the water is much better than some kind of solenoid or electrical switch, because anything mechanical can fail, but the water will always behave as water as long as there is a clear path. With the melevsreef system even if there is a block in the water flow you still have no problems.

Linky (http://www.melevsreef.com/allmysumps.html)

[joshkennedy07]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12788070#post12788070 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Slakker
A. Build enough room in your sump to accomodate the drain water.
B. Drill a hole in your return line just below the water level to break a siphon if the power DOES go out.

Tyler is right on with this one.

A electrical valve hear would be bad idea. IMO a check valve is a bad idea too. Of course if you insist on building this electrical valve I would recommend a UPS = Uninterruptible Power supply. They're heavy, ugly, expensive, and require almost yearly maintenance.

Consider that your overflow only holds a certain volume of water - you will probably only lose 2 gallons of sump space.

Of course you can always get a better sump. Much cheaper then a UPS.

[sk8rreefgeek]

bubbly- good point on mechanical vs. natural physics

That is a dangerous link, as I may spend hours on it instead of working. lol

[Slakker]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12788212#post12788212 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by joshkennedy07
Tyler is right on with this one.

I'll paypal you your $5 later today. :lol:

[sk8rreefgeek]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12788212#post12788212 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by joshkennedy07
Tyler is right on with this one.
Of course you can always get a better sump. Much cheaper then a UPS.

well, I measured the opening behind my stand (slightly bigger than the front)
The sump I'm building has about 1/4" of clearance (I hope LOL) so this will be the biggest sump I can possibly fit. It will be interesting to see it squeeze in there, a test of my math skills :smokin:

[joshkennedy07]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12788222#post12788222 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Slakker
I'll paypal you your $5 later today. :lol:

Whenever you get around to it :) lol

[sk8rreefgeek]

but thanks slakker, I guess that would be the way to go.
I like clean and simple, so the idea of a big,bulky,ugly,electronic valve is out of the question ;)

good discussion tho

ACRYLIC IS NOT CHEAP lol

[joshkennedy07]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12788237#post12788237 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sk8rreefgeek
well, I measured the opening behind my stand (slightly bigger than the front)
The sump I'm building has about 1/4" of clearance (I hope LOL) so this will be the biggest sump I can possibly fit. It will be interesting to see it squeeze in there, a test of my math skills :smokin:

Wow 1/4" clearance - Dude, that's like 7/32" of unused space:lol: JK

[sk8rreefgeek]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12788260#post12788260 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by joshkennedy07
Wow 1/4" clearance - Dude, that's like 7/32" of unused space:lol: JK

I almost went for 1/8" all around, but I didn't want to chance it :eek1: haha

[joshkennedy07]

At least your planning.
When I removed mine I had to take a few coats of paint off the opening of my stand. took about 20 minutes of flipping, twisting, and turning. Thank god it came out.

[sk8rreefgeek]

haha. ya, you gotta measure 3-4 times and practically build it twice in your head before actually making the thing.

I'm not about to pay $200+ for a pre-built one. this one will fit perfect (again, I HOPE lol)
and I can say "yauuh, I built that..." after a swig of cold beer

[Slakker]

I'm a little concerned about a flood as well. When I tested my setup initially the water level only rose about an inch in my sump, so when I built the baffles in, I left 3" at the top for drainage...the last couple of times I've shut things down for maintenance the water has gotten quite a bit higher than 1" above the normal water level...

I do think that solving my siphon problem would help a lot though...will probably just adjust the loc-line so that it's right at the water line.

I've gotta pick up some Weld-On one of these days...I'm thinking about building my own sump as well. I was planning on trying to build a stand for my skimmer as practice...if that turned out, maybe I'd give something water-tight a shot :D

Let me know how your experience goes...I'm curious.

[joshkennedy07]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12788340#post12788340 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Slakker
I'm a little concerned about a flood as well. When I tested my setup initially the water level only rose about an inch in my sump, so when I built the baffles in, I left 3" at the top for drainage...the last couple of times I've shut things down for maintenance the water has gotten quite a bit higher than 1" above the normal water level...

I do think that solving my siphon problem would help a lot though.

I have an Oceanic 72 (probably the same overflow setup) with a 20H for the sump. My anti-siphon is about 1/4" above my normal water line . When I cut the power - I do this for every water change - the sump level rises about 2".

[Slakker]

I'm certain that the anti-siphon that was already drilled in the Oceanic return plumbing isn't big enough to actually break the siphon, so I get a lot of extra water. An easy fix.

[sk8rreefgeek]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12788308#post12788308 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by joshkennedy07
At least your planning.


you know, it just dawned on me that I will need to rotate the sump 90 deg, after its in. I drew up my sump on autocad and took the diagonal dimension.
looks like I may be cutting 3" off the length to accommodate! hahhaha

good thing its not built yet! so much for 16.9 gallons :smokin: