Fish disaster in my tank

[mrpenguin]

In the last 4 days I lost 4 of my 5 fish I had in my tank and i have no idea why.

The first day one of my clows was dead, he was stuck behind an outlet pipe so I thought maybe he got stuck in there by accident and died because all the other fish looked healthy and he was healthy the day before.

Two days later I woke up to find my other clown missing and my Powder blue dead on the bottom.

All my fish was swimming and eating the night before, there was nothing to make me think any of them was sick.

The 4th fish died this morning .... he is the only one that didnt look all that good but it only started after the Powder blue died.

In this picture you can see it looks as if his skin is peeling of on his head and his eyes also looked funny, as if he was going blind or something.

I have tested my water and everything is good, my KH is 7 so its a little bit below what it should be.

I have one Manderin left in my tank, he looks good, I am hopeing he wont be next.

Everything else in my tank is doing great ... anemonies are big and open and everything else seems as if it is growing.

I have a skimmer in case you are wondering.
Tank in its current state is 7 months old.

The clowns was added about a month and a half ago and the Powder Blue was added a month ago, he was healthy and was swimming and eating like crazy.

Any ideas because I thought my tank was finally doing great.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a289/bigbluec/Aquarium/fish.jpg

[JEFFR259]

I'll let the experts chime in here, but...

Did the other fish exhibit symptoms like the one in the picture you posted? His wounds look to be bacterial or maybe self inflicted or something else did it to him....

Water parameters are good you say? Can you elaborate? What all do you test?

Should test (for FOWLR)
ph
Ammonia
Nitrite
Nitrate
kH
Salinity
Phosphate

[JEFFR259]

Sitting here still thinking about what you have going on...just wondering what could have happened...loosing 4 fish in 4 days is pretty dramatic as you know. I'm not personally aware of any illness that would knockout 4 fish in 4 days, especially without any real apparent illness indications.

If the water quality is a-ok, could something have contaminated the water by chance (ie outside source?). Has your skimmer been pulling out alot more sludge than normal? This could potentially be a sign of contaminants....

Again, waiting for the experts to jump on this one.

Good Luck!

[mrpenguin]

all my test I have done is normal ...

Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
kH 7
Salinity 1.026
Phosphate 0

the fish in the picture is the only one that had any signs of a problem.

The clowns and Powder blue looked healthy and ate the night night before they died, I did not see anything wrong with him.

[jmicky41]

To me, it looks like the fish in the picture has a bad case of velvet (oodinium). Advanced cases of velvet can certainly kill a fish in a day or two. Velvet is kinda like ich, but the spots are much smaller, sometimes forming a "sheen" on the fish. Velvet is also much more lethal than ich.

[Crush Coral]

I agree with the velvet consideration. Mandarins are pretty bullet proof to disease. I would do a couple large H2O changes, and run a good carbon charge incase you have febreze syndrone or some other polutant. Recheck temp with your hand at least and maybe another thermometer. When was your last H2O change? Do anything different?

[mrpenguin]

The powder blue had some very small spots on him, but it didnt look like itch at all that is why I was never concerned, but he had it on him from the day I got him and he was in the LFS for a few weeks and was checked over ... so it might just be his skin and that it is normal.

I didnt see anything on the clowns at all.

[mrpenguin]

After reading up about Velvet I do not think that is what they had because I did not see anything on my fish the way they describe it and I never seen them scratching themselves on anything.

The fish in the picture is suppose to be on the bottom, cleaning rocks but in his last days I did see him hovering near the surface which to me would suggest a lack of oxygen but I have a sump and a skimmer, so the oxygen should be plenty.


The only real problem I can think off is that my temp is at around 83 because of the weather outside, I do not have a chiller but I am running an AC .

Symptoms:
The fish will exhibit symptoms similar to ich. However the spots are much finer and appear gold or light brown. The spots resemble dust rather than salt (like ich). The spots are often concentrated around the gills.

Fish will also scratch against aquarium objects in an effort to remove the parasites. This can result in loss of scales and some skin damage. Some fish may over produce mucus as a barrier against the fish, so this is often a good sign when combined with other symptoms.

It may be hard to see the velvet, often the only sign is the damage done by the parasite. This damage may appear as dull or dark patches. Another way to see the velvet is to darken the room, and with a torch shine the fishes skin at an angle and look for the velvety appearance.

In more advanced stages the fish may become lethargic, have respiratory distress (breathing rapidly), lose its appetite and have clamped fins. When the fish is very ill it will look emaciated and will have lost weight.

[JEFFR259]

83 degrees will not cause a large die-off like you experienced, as I'm sure you know. However, it may distress the one remaining fish...it could cause him to hang at the top of the column.

the mystery still continues....

[snorvich]

If you have a higher temperature, it will accelerate the progression of oodinium or ich for that matter. I cannot tell if that is the problem, however, but 83 F will not kill off fish.

[mrpenguin]

I can maybe see the fish in the picture dying from oodinium but the Powder blue and two clowns had no symptoms of oodinium.

[mrpenguin]

Any more Ideas ?
I am scared to put any new fish in my tank ....

[petoonia]

I would do alot of water changes, and let the tank sit for about 6 weeks before adding any new fish.

Did you check them over for any wounds? Is it possible you have a mantis shrimp, or something else that could have attacked and killed them?

[mrpenguin]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12844799#post12844799 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by petoonia
I would do alot of water changes, and let the tank sit for about 6 weeks before adding any new fish.

Did you check them over for any wounds? Is it possible you have a mantis shrimp, or something else that could have attacked and killed them?

The Powder blue was pretty big and i didnt see any marks on him ..... one of the clowns is still missing.

I do have a cleaner shrimp .... wont the mantis shrimp eat him ?

Everything else in my tank is doing FANTASTIC .... my staghorn coral and anemonies has never looked this good before ... wont they show the first signs of stress if there was something wrong with the water ??

[sugartooth]

Have you considered Brook or something similar? Usually brook progresses and the only sign someone may notice is hovering near the surface or rapid breathing. By the time the body shows symptoms it's too late.

I can't really guess what it is by looking at the pics and your description. If there isn't any redness I would not guess bacterial. If there was any cauliflower fuzzy appearance it could have been fungal. But that's just a guess as well.

Brook can kill within 48 hours after you notice fish struggling.

One way to tell if there is anything on these fish is to dip them and see what comes off....but since there are no fish left (correct?) you should probably do that for new acquisitions.

I agree to leave the tank fallow for at least 4-6 weeks.

Sorry to hear about your losses. Good luck going forward.

[mrpenguin]

Well about 3 days after all my fish died the Mandarin disappeared as well ..... he is now missing in action. I did a huge water change and even rearranged my rock work and I was not able to find him, crabs must have eaten him.

right now I have a cleaner shrimp in there, he seems to be ok and not infected by what ever this is.
so my question is this ... how long before I can try and put a fish in my tank again ? and how do i know whatever this is will die with no fish in it ?

this really sucks ... a tank with no fish ..

[jnc914]

mrpenguin- your are not alone. Velvet has wiped out almost my entire tank, even after I medicated(Formalin). If you can see a light goldish film of powdery dots, then it is likely already too late, even if the fish are still active and eating. I swear that since I upgraded from my 180 to my 300 gallon I have had nothing but bad luck. I think the tank is jinxed. I also had a bulk head spring a leak and dumped about 40 gallons of water on my basement floor. Don't know if I am going to start over at this point.......very depressed right now.

[mrpenguin]

Sorry to hear about your bad luck !
Did the Formalin work and how long after were you able to put new fish in ?

[SteveJakubiec]

Same thing happened to me, lost 4 out of 8 fish in one night, water parameters are all fine, which is what I don't get, tho my Leopard Wrasse looks beat up.

[mrpenguin]

This is crazy .... if it was something you can pinpoint then at least you know how to fix it or how to prevent it from happening again ....... but now what ???????

[SteveJakubiec]

Um...one clownfish looks like she'll be going down and out, and the Leopard Wrasse, Goby, and Other Clown are fine it seems.

[catfisher]

Could your low KH be contributing to a big pH swing? Just my guess...

[GoSUV]

A big pH swing should have caused something to the invertebrates in the tank. But the OP said the inverts are doing fine, so the chance is less likely about water parameters, but something contagious that only affects fish.

[SteveJakubiec]

Female clown made it, she's doing fine, and eating.

[mrpenguin]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12916358#post12916358 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by GoSUV
A big pH swing should have caused something to the invertebrates in the tank. But the OP said the inverts are doing fine, so the chance is less likely about water parameters, but something contagious that only affects fish.

Exactly .... Cleaner shrimp, porcelain crab, blue leg hermit crabs, snails, corals and all other things are doing great, just the fish dead.

[jnc914]

Brook kills very quickly and is contagious, although that doesn't explain how your other fish survived. Velvet can act quickly if localized in the gills, but you would see symptoms of that by heavy or overactive breathing, scratching, etc. It took about two weeks to wipe out my tank; and this was after I had treated with formalin-3. I was able to see a powdery yellow film over the fishes body. I was trying to opt out of using copper before I was able to raise my salinity out of hypo. Guess that back fired on me. My Chrysurus and one clown has survived thus far. I added Cupramine last night after I did two big water changes. My achilles that I purchased prior to my tank crash has been living happily in my QT for the last month. It was supposed to be my last fish added. Guess I get to fish shop again once the velvet is gone. The most heart breaking loss was my juvi gold flake. He had grown quite a bit and was the most active and had so much personality. I will miss him the most. I will always QT from this point on.

[mrpenguin]

I added a yellow tailed blue damselfish to my tank yesterday, paid $5 for it and I need to see if the fish will be ok in my tank before I add anything more expensife .... day 2 and the fish seems ok, swimming and feeding.

[jnc914]

I have been doing large water changes and added cupramine. Everything is removed from the DT except for the two fish that survived, the Chrysurus Angel and a false perc. Don't know how much more effective Cupramine is than regular copper, I hope it cleans out the system of the velvet though.

[IridescentLily]

not an expert, but it almost sound slike they're being attacked by something, something that only comes out at night maybe? Something similar to a bristleworm perhaps? Have you ever looked at your tank at night to see if any other creatures come out. They usually come out at night. Certainly could be the aforementioned ideas, moreso than my idea, still I had to ask.
Im sorry for your losses.

[mrpenguin]

I spend hours looking at my tank at night to see if I could see anything .... I also redid my landscaping and removed 90% of my rock into buckets and did not see anything.
If there was something big enough to kill a Powder blue tang then I am sure I would have seen it.

[Moonstream]

LR is very porous and most preditors are good hiders. if it is a preditor, I dont think that you would find it just by removing the rock.

[Macimage]

Something similar to a bristleworm perhaps?

Bristleworms do not kill fish. They are sold by many vendors as part of a good clean up crew and if you do find one eating one of your fish, the fish was already dead.

It sounds as though you are not quarantining your fish. This is an important step in maintaining a successful healthy tank, as you can introduce all types of diseases into your display by adding new fish directly.

Joyce

[jmaneyapanda]

I also vote brook. A swift and deadly killer.

Here's how you prevent it- quarantine and treatment as necessary. I would keep you tank fishless for a long duration, and any fish that go in, QT and treat as necessary.