Figured out what is wrong with clam...

[Dr. Beer]

Err RC..... trying to post again.

Looking into its inhalant sihpon you can see the gills and internal body structure. Well, right between the gills, there is the fleshy (could not find the correct anatomical term) divider which separates the guts, internal organs, exhalant chamber from the inhalant chamber. This flesh is translucent, that is, you can see through it to a degree. Well I'm peering in at my little shrimp today, doing whatever it is they do in there, and I see a black shadow on this fleshy divider. I look closer and come to find it has the outline of a 2mm (rather large) pryamidellid snail. I can see the foot outline and the shell on top of it. No mistake as to what it is. I can see no way to remove this pest without killing the clam. I am guessing this is why my clam usually seems stressed. It is probably also why the mantle surrounding the inhalant is bleaching out. There are no snails on the outside of the clam and no eggs on the bottom. I figure even just one of those snails sucking away at its insides could do it in though.

This bothers me because there is nothing I can do. Generally all I'd have to do is remove this snail and all would hopefully be well (barring other problems/diseases I am unaware of) but I cannot.

If anyone has any advice at all please do share!

*edited in*

I now see 4 simultaneously. One is still the 2mm one, it hasn't moved much, and there are 3 others, varying from .5mm to 1.5mm. *sigh* I'm frustrated!

[Dr. Beer]

You know, is it possible this is what the "clam disease" has been? Snails living/reproducing/feeding in the exhalant chamber where we are unlikely to notice it? That could be why freshwater dips seem to be working. It simply kills the snails or whatever pests it might be...

[cromax]

Are you saying there are pyramid snails in the viscera internally behind the gills?

[Dr. Beer]

double post

[Dr. Beer]

Precisely Cromax. Sorry for my poor anatomical education. Biology 101-102 weren't my strong points at university. :D

Err for an english major neither was grammar! :eek:

[cromax]

That is amazing........ I have never seen pyramid snails inside a clam before. The only way to get in there is through the byssal opening! I do not believe this is the mysterious clam disease due to the fact I have dissected all my clams that fell prey to this disease and not noticed snails on the interior. And I am VERY THOROUGH, so much as to take mantle slices and observe them under oil immersion, looking for g- bacteria.

I have seen concentrations of pyramids at the byssal opening and near the siphonal mantle. This one takes the cake. Interesting observation, Dr. Beer.

I am sorry, but I cannot think of anything to do! Sounds like the clam is already weak. If you can, quarantine the clam and when the clam dies, collect the snails and send them to Dr. Shimek. He would be interested in these. Perhaps he could look at their morphology and establish whether these are a subspecies of our favorite snail, Mr. Pyramid!

[Dr. Beer]

I suppose that is all I can do at this point. I'll try a freshwater dip if they don't exterminate themselves (yeah right hehe). I checked and doublechecked because at times I noticed dark bits of fecal matter in there, but these certainly were not that.

Isn't it possible that the snails went in through the exhalant siphon?

Hrmm.

[cromax]

Well, if the snails are internal and behind the gills (seen through the clear tissue), the only access point is the byssal opening. If the snails are superficial and in one of the water chambers, then they got in through the incurrent siphon. The water chambers are separate from the visceral organs of the clam.

Edit: It is hard to tell without actually looking at the clam, but if you saw the snails through the transparent interchamber membrane, it is possible the snails entered through the excurrent siphon as you stated. That is, if they are in the excurrent water chamber. I don't think this would be an easy way for snails to get in, though. :o

[Dr. Beer]

Well clam is worse today.

To start, one of the shrimp in it died.

The bleaching around the inhalant siphon is spreading. Oddly enough the central fading is still improving. A lot. Shell seems to have attained 1mm of growth as well.
Mantles are starting to really pinch in some areas, especially around the inhalant siphon.
Sounds like a classic case of the dreaded clam disease to me... thoughts? I am thinking about trying the freshwater dip this afternoon.

[Turtlesteve]

At this point i would say dip it. Good luck.

[cromax]

Dr. Beer, this doesn't sound good. I think you already know the outcome of your clam's impending doom. A freshwater dip might very well kill him quicker, but at this point, you really have nothing to lose.

I have been experimenting with a product from Kent Marine's Expert Series called Tech-D. In my opinion, the benefits over a freshwater dip are tremendous. Hyposalinity for extended periods of time produce mortality rates that are far from acceptable to me. A coral dip disinfectant seems like the more logical way to go. I have not yet established a minimum or maximum effective dosage for clams yet, but I am working on it!

If you can find it, I would give it a try. Mix the dip solution to the bottle instructions, and try dipping your clam in the solution for 4 minutes or less.

So far, doses of 8.5 minutes and more have killed clams in 12 hours. They look fine and open up great immediately following the dip, but they are a total loss 12 hours later. These are clams that exhibited minimal mantle pinching, but were still very healthy.

[Dr. Beer]

What specifically does Tech-D do?
Almost anything is preferable to hyposalinity when it comes to inverts. Barring Cu treatments. :D

[cromax]

Tech-D is a coral dip disinfectant used to treat new corals and coral cuttings. It is actually a coral safe iodide and bromide solution. It's interaction with clams and the ability to cure pinched mantles is what I'm interested in, if indeed it helps. It is also good for disinfecting deteriorated areas of coral flesh.

[Fishguru]

ok first off let me say im not even to biology 101 yet :) I just recently purchased a 4" Squamosa. I noticed tonight that near the bottom of the clam (byssal opening?) that there was a large white protrusion that was moving very slowly back into the clam. I have had a few maxima's and have never seen this before. With all the concern over the snails i want to make sure this isnt a possibility. the protrusion as almost 3/4 of an inch long plus what ever was inside and about just smaller than a dime in diameter. It moved very slowly, but was just out of sight to get a real good look at it. any input would be greatly appreciated-Guru

[Dr. Beer]

That's the byssal foot, and isn't something you should worry about at all. :)

[Fishguru]

Got it thanks, complete brain lapse on that one-Guru

[Dr. Beer]

Well the mantle pinching still seems minimal, though the bleaching around the inhalant siphon doesn't look any better. If anything it is worse. I'm gonna go pick up a bottle of the Tech-D this afternoon. I'll have a new post with the results up later today. Wish me luck. ::eek2:

[Squidman]

Good Luck to you and all clams. :)

[msu76md]

I basically agree with this notion of snails attacking our clams.

I posted this a while back but nobody paid any attention...

"I had a different type of predator. Originally, I thought I had some sort of bacterial infection, but actually I found they were these really tiny snail-like critters. They were about 3mm long by 1mm wide. The brownish-white shell had dark-brown stripes.

The little b a s t a r d s would only come out at night. So I didn't know what was attacking my clams until one night I decided to take a quick peak with a flashlight. One of my T. derasas was under attack by at least 30 of these things. It was completely overwhelmed. I lifted the clam out of the water, and it basically dissolved as I lifted it out.

I've noticed that these things are more likely to attack my smaller clams. Indeed, they've been attacking all my clams. The mantles have tell-tale signs of their attacks. They look a little withdrawn and maybe as if a chunk had been bitten off. They killed off two of my clams already.

They actually like to coordinate group attacks. Don't ask me how. I pulled a stomatella off it's shell by accident, and it fell to the substrate. I walked away for about one minute. When I came back, that poor stomatella was engulfed by these things. These guys are like vultures... they didn't care about daylight in light of this easy meal.

These aren't like those little white pyramelid snails. Those guys are nothing compared to these brown striped critters. I've been unsuccessful in removal them manually. But what I've noticed is that they cannot traverse over any SPS. So I moved/mounted all clams on top of or into a montipora capricornis. They've been fine ever since.

I've changed bulbs, performed water changes, never fed, and things are fine. They've been extremely hardy ever since I moved them to their "protected" sites. The mantles have grown back and the shells are growing fine.

So in my honest opinion, if a snail is going to go down, there has to be some predator involved. Keep your eyes open."

In any case, I need to post some pics of my clams and their gradual recovery from the snail attacks. Putting them on top of the montiporas is the best move I ever made. I also should post some pics of those little snails to see if anybody else has them.

[cromax]

MSU, yes, PICS, PICS! You obviously had a run-in with some predatory snails. I haven't encountered any of the ones you speak of. Have you noticed any more of them in your tank? If so, are they feeding on anything else?

How were they introduced into your system?

[Dr. Beer]

YES PICS!! *sigh* Maybe we can correlate our experiences and draw some kind of conclusion here, as I seem to have something along the same lines in my clam, except they seemed to be living in the viscera.

[mscarpena]

I had two clams a deresa and a squamosa. Both fell to pyramid snails. I was aware of these, but I have a six lined wrasse and was told that would take care of it. I told him he had better start earning his keep, but I doubt he will listen. How do I recify this situation. I have no other clams left and don't plan on purchasing any until I know how to clear this up. I don't think it came from any of the clams that I purchsed. I had the last clam for about 3-4 months. The Squamosa had about 12-15 pyramid snails near it's byssal opening, but the Deresa had none. I took looked inside the clam and did not see any snails. Any help would be greatly, greatly appreciated. I loved my clams and my tank is not the same with out them. My Squamosa had amazing purples, greens, and blues. Thank you.
Mark

[john rochon]

okay this thread has my interest!!! I have added 3 new clams [all small] from my buddys store. there all doing fine in his holding tanks. I've lost 2 overnight! dissolved! they weren't in my tank for more than 2 days. the third is still fine and my larger maxima is fine. I have lots of stomatella snails but have been seeing different colored ones as of late. some black and some light brown with a lined pattern. I'm starting to wonder??
my tank is a year old and stable 500g. no pyranid snails day or night. what can cause rapid death in clams?? I acclimated them for 3 hours.

[Snprhed]

I an obviously coming in on the back side of this but as I read it through I kept thinking this. If it is a pyramid snail why would the tech D kill it. It is a mollusc also I would think that Iodine levels high enough to kill a healthy one would also kill the ailing clam.

I do see its benefit for secondary bacterial infection though.

Food for thought