What are your electrical rates? is it affecting your hobby?

[bergzy]

living here in orage county, california...our electrical rates are enormously high.

the problem is compounded in that SoCal Edison delivers electricity in 'tiers'.

to complicate matters, Socal Edison has different rates for winter time and summertime.

and, finally (there are probably more), there is a different electricity allocation amount for winter and summer.

winter, we get to use 351 kWh.

summer, i will find out with my next bill.

now...

for winter: the first 351 kWh is $0.19027 per kWh

after the 351kWh rates increase to $0.12832 per kWh. this is called 'tier 2'. now, this may seem like after the 351 kWh, electricity gets cheaper but this is an illusion.

Socal Edison billing is extremely complex as there are generation charges, delivery charges and a 'once per bill' DWR charge for the baseline (the 351 kWh). without the 'DWR', the 351kWh would be $0.08875 less per kWh.

tier 3 is next. we get 246 kWh of $0.23636 per kWh.

tier 4 allots us 248 kWh with the glorious rate of $0.28482 per kWh

there is a tier 5 where i havent reached...yet. i would have reached tier 5 easily if i didnt have solar pv augmenting my electrical use. my monthly electrical use would be about 2100 kWh that would create an electrical bill of something like $550 to $600...easy.

the tier has recently been restructured. earlier this year it was just TWO tiers...but with more tiers, Socal Edison is able to disguise charging higher rates by fractioning it up more. for example, tier 2 rates were about 38 cents per kWh...but with the restructuring, you would reach the tiers much faster. tier 1 had a 'large' (much larger than now) allotment of kWh before advancing to the higher tier 2 (which i rarely went into).

there has been a 19% rate increase this year and i read that utilities will rise astronomically due to high gas costs this year (esp those generators that use natural gas).

we have a time of use option...but it is pretty much as stupid as you would need to use the majority of your electricity after midnight till 6 or 7 am. plus, you only get a 500kWh allotted. if you exceed that, you pay uber high rates. plus, the reduced cost per kWh is pretty much a tragic joke...

sooooooo.....

along with the record high gasoline prices, has your electrical rates risen to where it is affecting your reef hobby? and if so, what have you changed?

[Mariner]

Here in North Alabama we have some of the lowest rates in the nation. I just paid my bill this evening, and if my calculations are correct I'm paying .08279 per kWh. I live near the Tennessee River, within 10 miles of both a hydroelectric dam and a nuclear power plant. IMHO, use of these forms of energy should be encouraged nation wide.
FWIW,
Mariner

[ser_renely]

Free for me :) no utility bills.

[bergzy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12855288#post12855288 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Mariner
Here in North Alabama we have some of the lowest rates in the nation. I just paid my bill this evening, and if my calculations are correct I'm paying .08279 per kWh. I live near the Tennessee River, within 10 miles of both a hydroelectric dam and a nuclear power plant. IMHO, use of these forms of energy should be encouraged nation wide.
FWIW,
Mariner

it just blows my mind that Scal Edison rates are so fiendishly high! it basically is criminal imo.

i full heartedly agree with you on the use of hydro and nuclear. not only do these not generate greenhouse gases...they are 'almost' from renewable resources (yeah, i have no idea how much uranium reserves there are). these methods are both clean and plentiful.

again, the frustrating thing about living in SoCal is that a HUGE solar electricity plant just delayed because of a ground squirrel habitat issue. and to add insult to injury, i just read that the government has stopped all solar projects. of course this makes perfect sense in these times of record high fuel prices.:rolleyes:


ser_renely,

how do you get no utility bills? live with parents? incarcerated? siphoning off neighbors meter? :D:D:D:D:D

[SoCalSURFrider]

an extra 200 dollars a month to run my setup!!!

[kdblove_99]

I really dont know what mine is. I live in Nor cal and have PG&E and they are terriblely expensive as well. I hate em. But its the only choice we have in my particular area.

[dabears1983]

I live in Chicago, my total bill for 2007 was 2.959.00, is that crazy or what.

[tacocat]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12855388#post12855388 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bergzy
it just blows my mind that Scal Edison rates are so fiendishly high! it basically is criminal imo.


They have the TVA, which was established along time ago. Tenessee has so many waterways available to generate hydroelectric power and cool nuclear powerplants.

Unfortunately, nuclear powerplants are best suited to locations near wild rivers and or fault lines in CA. Also, we are tapped out on hydroelectric sources. Salmon and trout or hydroelectric - tough choice.

[eddnyster]

yeah L.A. County isn't much different than Orange...I guess it's the price for living in SoCal where EVERYTHING...and I mean EVERYTHING is within "fairly" short driving distances....i guess. So far...the most I've used is around 1400 kWh and that bill came in around $300. Again...this was during the winter months...
Summer...well...I'll find out soon enough!

[kdblove_99]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12856075#post12856075 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dabears1983
I live in Chicago, my total bill for 2007 was 2.959.00, is that crazy or what.

I think you got me. Mine is usally around $215 a month X 12= $2580

[Bryan]

British Columbia, Canada 6.5 cents CND per KWH

[ser_renely]

live on a military base :)

[das75]

No, but one of the reasons I gave the wife for swapping out the Iwaki with a Barracuda was we could save 60watts (obviously she seen through that story).

[BigJay]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12855388#post12855388 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bergzy
it just blows my mind that Scal Edison rates are so fiendishly high! it basically is criminal imo.


I hate to get political in a thread like this, but the problem with socal power has nothing to do with the evil energy companies. If they had enough supply and competition available, there would be no need or justifor high prices. Hold your government accountable for the lack of new power plants.

[mutualbill]

.08144 cents per KWH no matter the usage where I live so no worries here. On my May to June bill I used 2803 kwh of electricty and still only had a $232.00 electric bill! Woot for electrical co-ops!

[gcarroll]

bergzy- you left out a big factor on those So Cal Edison rates. To get your true cost/kilowattyou need to also ad in the delivery charges. when you add those in, your price/kilowatt for Tier 3 & Tier 4 are over $.30+/kilowatt.

I haven't paid much mind to my bill (typically I don't even look at it unless it is over $300) but I typically use between 1050 and 1200 kilowatts per month. couple of years ago I had a month in the summer where I used 2200 kilowatts (left the thermostat on upstairs A/C unit set at 76 degrees for the whole month). Just getting a more efficient skimmer has made by bill go down. other changes may help in the future.

[gcarroll]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12857195#post12857195 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BigJay
I hate to get political in a thread like this, but the problem with socal power has nothing to do with the evil energy companies. If they had enough supply and competition available, there would be no need or justifor high prices. Hold your government accountable for the lack of new power plants. Sorry buddie, but deregulation led to this blunder! Deregulation allowed power companies to exploit CA by steering power away from the CA grid. Then the hysteria of the artificial shortages made power companies sign long term deals with outragious terms. How quick you Texans forget about Enron!

I will admit that building more powerplants will help with shortages but it will not help with prices. Why? Because nothing but the price of SUV's goes down in CA. Besides we pay high rates wheter the state is using 70% of its power or 100%.

Someone like you had some grand idea that competition would lead to lower rates. There are still cities in CA that did not buy into this fictional idea (Los Angeles, Anaheim, Corona, Riverside, ect. all have municipal controlled utilities) and still offer $.06 - $.08/kilwatt rates.

[qfrisco]

I live in a suburb of Dallas and my area is served by an electric coop. Our residential rates are:

May - October: $0.07854 per kWh
November - April: $0.07854 per kWh - First 700 kWh, $0.067810 per kWh- Additional kWh

I've always thought it was funny that in the winter months, they essentially give us an incentive to use more electricity by charging less per kWh after the first 700!

I'm going into my first summer with my reef, and we'll see how the power consumption is. I also just switched from overdriven T5s to 2x250 MHs last week, but according to my calculations the MHs should only increase my power bill by $15 or so.

[ScottL4619]

I've never really paid much attention, but looking at the last two bills (April and May), they are substantially different. I just used the total cost and total kWh to get .071 for April and .105 for May. This includes all of their extra fees, but I'm not sure why the difference between April and May. We have AEP and they don't actually tell you what the per kWh charge is...just how many you use.

[tony varrell]

You people should not be complaining I live in South Florida and Pay on average $568.00 per month for my electric. I have never broke it down to figure out out how much it was costing me to run my 300 gallon setup. Has anybody switched from 3X250Watt to 3X400watt and calculated the cost difference? I would be interested know how much it really is..

[gcarroll]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12858749#post12858749 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tony varrell
You people should not be complaining I live in South Florida and Pay on average $568.00 per month for my electric. look on you last bill and tell us how much it was and how many kilowatts you used. we will let you know who should be complaining.

[tony varrell]

gcarrol I guess I should not be complaining I pay .052270 for the first 1000 and .062270 after that. Looking at the numbers posted here these are reasonable cost. I must be using a lot of power to pay almost 600.00 per month.. Scary..

[bergzy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12858832#post12858832 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by gcarroll
look on you last bill and tell us how much it was and how many kilowatts you used. we will let you know who should be complaining.

looking up florida power and light:

http://www.fpl.com/rates/pdf/electric_tariff_section8.pdf

and adding up their 'almost as complex' billing system as Socal Edison...and unless i added things up wrong (possibly)...

i get a flat rate of $0.16242 per kWh...at peak/most expensive usage times...

not cheap but definitely not even remotely close to what Socal Edison charges...

[hypernesia]

Go solar!!! I currently pay $0.11 kWh roughly $165/month. My wife is on the green kick and WE have decided to go solar, the initial cost is expensive but you never have to worry about future price hikes. Plus WE energies in Wisconsin has an agreement that if you produce electricity via wind or solar and are residential they will purchase this electricity from you for twice their going rate before you use it. So essentially you only need a solar array that produces half of your usage to have no electric bill!

[Esquare]

6.3 cents per kWh 1,636 kWh used.

Ahhh California...the land of Nuts and Honey! :)

Supply and demand, California doesn’t have the supply so they pay for the demand.

[heyfredyourhat]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12856281#post12856281 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Bryan
British Columbia, Canada 6.5 cents CND per KWH


I thought we were paying .06 per kwH...Damn bc hydro jacking the rates!
I have been in this new house for 12 months now and i still dont have it figured what i pay monthly.

[timrandlerv10]

TVA FTW!

While mine isnt 'free' I dont pay for it...our lease for my office includes non-phone utilities and once a week vacuum and emptying of trash cans.

I have a 44g, 10g, 29g, 75 w/55 sump!

[Esquare]

Hey! I want someone to empty my trashcan! :)

[gcarroll]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12859519#post12859519 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Esquare
Supply and demand, California doesn’t have the supply so they pay for the demand. If that was the case, I guarantee you that the energy companies would be trying to send all there power to CA. Why? because by that rational, why sell to some guy ion OH pauing $.06/kilowatt when they cans sell to some guy in CA for $.30+/kilowatt. If supply and demand was the case, you my friend would be working in a candle or match factory. Besides, how else would you get light there in OH. :D

[Esquare]

How much electricity does California import?

[SunnyX]

WOW! I am finally happy I still live in Michigan :D . Here is what my bill says:

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p157/SunnyX_photo/Untitled.jpg

Plus, when I get back in Michigan again I will be setting up a smaller tank run on Aquatinic Constellation 7x54W T5 and a Ehiem 1260 for main pump instead of the 1300W of lights and 350W of pump power now. :D

[Esquare]

I think you might be the winner SunnyX!

[gcarroll]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12859769#post12859769 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Esquare
How much electricity does California import? between 20-30% depending on the season. CA exports in the winter and imports heavily in the summer.

[Esquare]

22 to 32 % overall as I understand. Fairly significant.
I stand by my earlier statement, California’s lack of supply means they have to pay for their demand.

[gcarroll]

problem is it would make more sense to keep CA powered since they are willing to outpay andy other state. Rolling blackouts in CA means lost revenue for the power companies. why sell to some guy in another state paying $.06/kilowatt when they cans sell to some guy in CA for $.30+/kilowatt.

[Paulairduck]

My power bill goes down in the summer. I am on the ac discount program, when demand gets really high I can not use my AC. I have had this program for 4 years and they have shut my AC down once.

I was @ just over a 1000 kwh on a 400 gallon system with 1250 watts of lighting and my bill came in @ 200 dollars, and I run a jacuzzi @98F

it is better in the summer because they allow you more kwh, before bumping up the teir rate

[gcarroll]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12859976#post12859976 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Paulairduck
My power bill goes down in the summer. I am on the ac discount program, when demand gets really high I can not use my AC. I have had this program for 4 years and they have shut my AC down once. you must be on the maximum discount program. Either way they do not give you credit is they don't shut you down. You still get credit if the cut you off even though the AC may not be on in the first place. It is very deceptive when they turn the A/C off because the furnace fan still runs, just the compressor outside shuts down.

[Jim_S]

CA rates are terrible :(

My bill this month was $300 just from SMUD (sac municipal utilities)

But I also have a pool with 2 3/4hp pumps.....

Comcast (cable co.) is a whole different story..... I HATE them and the $175 they hit me with every month!!!!!

[moondoggy4]

I live in the inland empire where it is 10 to 30 degrees hotter in summer then the OC. Riverside is 103 today Irvine 78 degrees. We get the same alotment that OC gets. Funny the elec co. says to turn up the thermostate to 78 degrees to save money funny my AC would never turn off. My bill was at the worst 135 a month prior to the deregulation now it is 400 dollars> I had to run t-5 as a supplement my halides and I cut my bill by 100 dollars. The power companies had to sell the power plants due to deregulation and now after they have to buy and build new ones so now they have raised the rates to pay for them. Thanks Enron, Bush and Grey Davis

[buggapimp5.0]

im dying to see what my lightbill says this month. I just cranked an extra 560 watts by upgrading to 2 x 150, 2 x 130 pc setup and a 1/6hp chiller... I will keep you all posted on this thread!

[LoneStarSA]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12859798#post12859798 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SunnyX
WOW! I am finally happy I still live in Michigan :D . Here is what my bill says:

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p157/SunnyX_photo/Untitled.jpg

Plus, when I get back in Michigan again I will be setting up a smaller tank run on Aquatinic Constellation 7x54W T5 and a Ehiem 1260 for main pump instead of the 1300W of lights and 350W of pump power now. :D

Yes DTE is one of the only cheap things going for Michigan!

[dphins]

I used 1381 Kwh and paid $124.96 here in Illinois. Plus, my house is all electric. Are most houses in California electric or they mostly gas?

[reefsahoy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12859798#post12859798 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SunnyX
WOW! I am finally happy I still live in Michigan :D . Here is what my bill says:

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p157/SunnyX_photo/Untitled.jpg

Plus, when I get back in Michigan again I will be setting up a smaller tank run on Aquatinic Constellation 7x54W T5 and a Ehiem 1260 for main pump instead of the 1300W of lights and 350W of pump power now. :D

Sunnyx, are you changing over to t5's from MH? if so keep us posted of the results because your tank is awesome with the MH.

[reefsahoy]

My bill is not that bad. I installed the highest efficiency ac avail by Lennox and have a 3600sq ft home. when i go to work my ac is in auto mode and go to 80 degrees then just before i come home back to the temp we like it at. i replaced all the high usage light bulbs with cf lighting, lowered my water heater temp to 125 degrees. I also have a pool that i turn the pump on only 6 hrs a day. I'm using 6 X t5's and low wattage pumps and equipment and no chiller necessary. not to mention my wife cooks every day and bakes at times too. my electric bill is in the mid to low $200 even in the summer and i live in HOT Miami fla.

[Jim_S]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12861321#post12861321 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dphins
I used 1381 Kwh and paid $124.96 here in Illinois. Plus, my house is all electric. Are most houses in California electric or they mostly gas?

It all depends on where you are. Most houses here in Sac are both. We have gas and electric.

[reefsahoy]

my house is all electric. you figure for every 75 watt bulb you replace with a cf light is like replacing it with a night light. i think when i add all the bulbs in my house it equated to like 300 watts.

[Freed]

Monthly Service Charge $ 10.40
On-Pk Charges (386 KWH Used) 44.36
Off-Pk Charges (1347 KWH Used) 25.66
Fuel Adj @ 0.0060990 Per KWH 10.57
AEP/CSW Net Merger Savings Rider 1.61 CR
State Sales Tax 6.26
Current Electric Due $ 95.64

[SunnyX]

Actually it will be a NEW tank. :D Look for a build thread in the following months. ;)

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12861450#post12861450 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by reefsahoy
Sunnyx, are you changing over to t5's from MH? if so keep us posted of the results because your tank is awesome with the MH.

[reefsahoy]

great, i was worried that RC would lose one of my favorites tanks! please pm me your build thread when you start. thanks

[WLachnit]

So, I pay over $6000 per yr for electric here in NoCal with PG&E (~$9500 for both gas and electric). The tier system is ridiculous. I pay >$0.32 on the higher tier. I just buried my head in the sand when I set my tank up and didn't tell the S.O.

[Paulairduck]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12860037#post12860037 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by gcarroll
you must be on the maximum discount program. Either way they do not give you credit is they don't shut you down. You still get credit if the cut you off even though the AC may not be on in the first place. It is very deceptive when they turn the A/C off because the furnace fan still runs, just the compressor outside shuts down.

I think my last bill @ just over 1000 KWH, my discount was 29.60, if I remember correctly, not a whole lot, but better than nothing:D Maybe they did shut me down, becasue I got a discount of almost thirty bucks.

[miwoodar]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12860037#post12860037 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by gcarroll
you must be on the maximum discount program. Either way they do not give you credit is they don't shut you down. You still get credit if the cut you off even though the AC may not be on in the first place. It is very deceptive when they turn the A/C off because the furnace fan still runs, just the compressor outside shuts down.

They call every few months to tell us about this 'great' plan. I always respond with a NO WAY!

Do electricity rates impact my reefing? Yes. I have a perfectly good Iwaki 100 collecting dust that I would love to use to run my sump from my basement. At $35/month it will continue to do so. Nearly all of the flow in my tank comes from two 20 watt prop pumps instead.

[moondoggy4]

In the high urban areas it is gas and elec

[mutualbill]

Wow to all you guys who don't live in extremely hot, humid, areas like South Louisiana. I use about 2800kwh/month in the summertime. Damn running that A/C on 72 really eats up the electricty!

[miwoodar]

72!? I'm at 78 and the tank peaks around 80 on most days.

[Diatome]

Wow. I run 77 during the day and my kids complain it is cold when I turn it down to 76 at night. Florida girls.

Tank only gets to 79 during the day. My bill went down when I got rid of my old power heads and PC lighting and went with T5's and korillias.

[bergzy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12872928#post12872928 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mutualbill
Wow to all you guys who don't live in extremely hot, humid, areas like South Louisiana. I use about 2800kwh/month in the summertime. Damn running that A/C on 72 really eats up the electricty!

72!?!?!

WOW!

that's like icebox temps for me!

i like it at 78 in the summer but 68 in the winter (go figure)! :)

but, yeah, you have to factor in the humidity for where you live!

[saltwater4life1]

Mine was free to run (military base too) they changed it and now have to start paying... Not sure what just my tank cost but for our little less then 1,000sf house our estement bill for the house was almost 700 bucks a month!

[Aadler]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12857521#post12857521 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by gcarroll
Sorry buddie, but deregulation led to this blunder! Deregulation allowed power companies to exploit CA by steering power away from the CA grid. Then the hysteria of the artificial shortages made power companies sign long term deals with outragious terms. How quick you Texans forget about Enron!

I will admit that building more powerplants will help with shortages but it will not help with prices. Why? Because nothing but the price of SUV's goes down in CA. Besides we pay high rates wheter the state is using 70% of its power or 100%.

Someone like you had some grand idea that competition would lead to lower rates. There are still cities in CA that did not buy into this fictional idea (Los Angeles, Anaheim, Corona, Riverside, ect. all have municipal controlled utilities) and still offer $.06 - $.08/kilwatt rates.

Just a quick check of la and riverside looks like they are around .10-.12/kwh plus delivery. (for first tier). all also with proposed increases to take effect currently and continuing though 2010 a few times a year (which is the same for the rest of the country i believe). Maybe I am wrong however.

http://www.ladwp.com/ladwp/cms/ladwp007915.jsp

http://www.riversideca.gov/utilities/pdf/elec-rates/120407-Domestic%20Service%20%20Granny%20Flats-eff-010108-CC%20Clean.pdf

[ReefEnabler]

I pay a little over 11 cents per kwh.

I dont even have my tank set up yet (just return pump), and I still used 3700 kwh for June this year. About the same as last June :P

during Dcember-Jan, I'm only using 950kwh, and then it slowly peakes back up to almost 4000 in the summer.

[Freed]

Like I posted before, less than 2 cents per KWH here. YAYYYYY!!!

[turbonut]

is there a way to calculate how much ur tanks are consuming in power?