Emergency Power

[Playa-1]

I'm interested to know who is running a AC/DC power inverter and Deep Cycle Marine batteries for a back up power supply.

What are you using and how long of a run time are you getting from the battery bank?

Any additional information would be appreciated.

[8BALL_99]

I've got a DIY ups thats a Deep cycle battery with a AC/DC inverter. I have a couple solarpanels on my roof that keeps it charged and ready.. I've been using this ups for about 2 years.. It works great. I've only got one Battery on mine. I've got a Generator for long outages.. As far as run time I'm not sure exactly how long it will run. The longest I've ever needed it was about 3-4 hours. That was running 2 Eheim 1260s and one Mag 7. I think a UPS like this is a great option if you dont want to spend 2+grand on a whole house system just to have automatic back up power.

[Playa-1]

Thanks for the feedback, That sounds like a nice set-up. I'm actually looking into setting up a 2k watt system. I will probably play around with solar panels at some point but for the time being it would just be set up as a UPS with a couple of good agm deep cycle marine batteries. I'm actually very curious as to run times people have been able to get out of their set-ups.

[das75]

2000w battery backup, that's big if you planning on running it for any length of time.

Consider what you really need in the event of an outage. For me looking just at the recir pump for aeration and a heater, basically no lights, skimmer, Ca reactor. If I thought was going to be longterm, would take the sump off-line and just throw a heater and a powerhead in the display for surface agitation (aeration).

This is based on our climate and on the very rare time there's an outage it's winter. If thought a concern in summer, would just put my muffin fans on the circuit.

[Playa-1]

I want to play around with different configurations. First of all I want to see how long of a run time I can get with the entire tank on a system like this. Then I want to see what type of run time I can get with the complete system without MH and the Skimmer.
Then I would like to see the run time on just the Display powerheads and a heater which is likely how I would leave it set-up full time.

The reason for the larger inverter is that I would also like to plug in a PC and a couple of low wattage lights when the power goes out. I would also like to play around with Solar power at some point. So the way I see it is, Why not just go ahead a buy an Inverter that will do all of that stuff.

I understand that It will require a True Sin Wave Inverter to make this happen.
I would leave the display on the system full time and plug in the PC as needed. I'm sure it's overkill :)

I'm still researching the Idea. Is my Idea flawed here?

[8BALL_99]

Well IMO a Battery backup isn't idea to run your entire system plus a computer ect ect.. You would need probably about a 4-5000 dollar system same as whats sold with solar systems. Sure you could do it, But once you hit 2 grand your talking whole house Generators. Sooo that would be a much better choice for what you want to do IMO

My ups was only around $220 bucks. I built this for the short term outages. For long outages where I need to run heaters our deep freeze, ect ect I have a Generator thats output is a True sine wave so I can run my bigscreen or whatever I need. I think if you want back up power for your house you need a Generator.. If you want to run a couple pumps during a short outage then a UPS is a good option

[Playa-1]

I really appreciate your input, Actually I was planning to have both. A custom ups and a Generator. So other then the initial expense you don't see any reason not to proceed? I can get the project done for roughly $1300 to $1500. A generator would come later.

That includes a high Quality 2000 watt True Sine wave inverter/charger.
A couple of AGM Deep Cycle batteries.
A dedicated circuit and heavy gauge wiring.

That's just a few bucks more then a couple of Vortech Powerheads with a couple of their backup power supplies. And a whole lot more bang for the buck I might add.

[8BALL_99]

I agree that a DIY UPS is a good idea and can be done pretty easy. But if you have 1300-1500 bucks man I'd get a generator now.. My Gen is a Honda Eu2000i. It only weighs 50 LBs I can carry to my barn or camping.. Its VERY quiet. I cant hear it in the house with it running in the gargae.. They run 1000 bucks.. I think for what you want to do it or something like it would be a much better choice..

[Playa-1]

The reason that I'm considering going both ways is if I leave the house for a couple of days I would prefer the piece of mind of knowing the tank is taken care of. Sometimes when the power flashes here the GFCI tripps and That would really suck if I was out of town for the weekend. Obviously the generator is a more cost effective method if somebody is there to turn it on or You go high end auto start equipment tied into the inverter. But then that a whole other can of worms :)

[geiges]

The power was out here for 18 or so hr two weeks ago.
Ran the gen for 4hr befor bed, then ran 600watt inverter
off the two deepcycles in my dodge. Ran my mag1800 and
skimmer for 8 or 9 hr. when I got up the truck started right
up no problem.

[Playa-1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12885609#post12885609 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by geiges
The power was out here for 18 or so hr two weeks ago.
Ran the gen for 4hr befor bed, then ran 600watt inverter
off the two deepcycles in my dodge. Ran my mag1800 and
skimmer for 8 or 9 hr. when I got up the truck started right
up no problem.

That's excellent :thumbsup:

I also have a small portable inverter. I think It's like 600 watts that I keep around for emergencies. I have not had to use it yet. But it's just a matter of time.

[8BALL_99]

Your GFCI shouldnt' trip when the power flickers. I've got 3 circuits in my Fish room all on GFCI I also have about 4 others in the house and non of them trip duing an outage.. Might need to replace it.

Well if you reduce the load a single battery with a cheap inverter would maintain your tank NP.. Say just your Return pump or even a Maxijet in the tank. You would be able to get atleast a day with one small return pump 65 watts or so. Maybe longer.. A MJ with an airline would run for days if not a week. Then just have a Gen for long outages. But really if an outage lasts more then a day thens its probably a major outage that would be several days if not a week...So for those cases a UPS probably wouldnt be alot of help..

[BeanAnimal]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12885034#post12885034 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Playa-1
I really appreciate your input, Actually I was planning to have both. A custom ups and a Generator. So other then the initial expense you don't see any reason not to proceed?

Plenty of reasons :)

Hooking up one or two batteries to an inverter is one thing. Strapping a dozen or more batteries to an inverter is another. A single high quality SVLA or AGM battery is capable of putting several hundred, even a thousand or more amps into a dead short. Tie 20 of them to an array and you have thousands of amps of dead short energy.

Series batteries will charge and discahrge at a common rate. Parallel batteries will not. The weaker cells will pull current from the stronger cells. A single shorted cell will cause the entire parallel array to dump current into it.

You are simply not going to get the current and run times you are tallking about with a "couple" of deep cycle batteries. You will need a rack full of them.

Charging also becomes an issue with large arrays. You will need to invest in a smart charger that will ensure the string stays topped off but does not overcharge.

You will find that MOST large strings are wet cell, not AGM, GEL or SVLA. They need constant watering and cleaning to prevent carbon tracking and shorts.

Large battery strings are certainly not something to play with unless you fully understand the dangers.

You will need to understand how to fuse each battery and each parallel array so that YOU and your HOME are safe.

As others have mentioned, you are much better off spending $2500 and getting a 7kW Generac or similar standby generator.

Get a small inverter and toss a few cells on it in case you need to run an few powerheads for part of the day.

[Playa-1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12886701#post12886701 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BeanAnimal
Plenty of reasons :)

Hooking up one or two batteries to an inverter is one thing. Strapping a dozen or more batteries to an inverter is another. A single high quality SVLA or AGM battery is capable of putting several hundred, even a thousand or more amps into a dead short. Tie 20 of them to an array and you have thousands of amps of dead short energy.

Series batteries will charge and discahrge at a common rate. Parallel batteries will not. The weaker cells will pull current from the stronger cells. A single shorted cell will cause the entire parallel array to dump current into it.

You are simply not going to get the current and run times you are tallking about with a "couple" of deep cycle batteries. You will need a rack full of them.

Charging also becomes an issue with large arrays. You will need to invest in a smart charger that will ensure the string stays topped off but does not overcharge.

You will find that MOST large strings are wet cell, not AGM, GEL or SVLA. They need constant watering and cleaning to prevent carbon tracking and shorts.

Large battery strings are certainly not something to play with unless you fully understand the dangers.

You will need to understand how to fuse each battery and each parallel array so that YOU and your HOME are safe.

As others have mentioned, you are much better off spending $2500 and getting a 7kW Generac or similar standby generator.

Get a small inverter and toss a few cells on it in case you need to run an few powerheads for part of the day.


Thanks for your input. I don't recall having an expectation on run times other then asking for peoples experience. I also never mentioned tieing 20 together. Although it's doable with the proper equipment. Do you have experience with run time on your system?
As far as life support I'm looking at a couple of powerheads and an 150 watt heater that would likely never kick on. How long to you think a couple of AGM deep cycle marine batteries would power this set-up?
The True sine wave inverter that I have in mind has a built in smart charger. It's first class equipment.

[Playa-1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12886670#post12886670 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 8BALL_99
Your GFCI shouldnt' trip when the power flickers. I've got 3 circuits in my Fish room all on GFCI I also have about 4 others in the house and non of them trip duing an outage.. Might need to replace it. I will have to look into it. I may have too much of a load on the circuit. Or maybe just a POS GFCI :lol:

[8BALL_99]

A 2k system is a large system. The if you ran a full 2000 watts on 2 deep cycles batteries they would be dead in no time.. So when you say your wanting to do a 2k system with a 1800watt or inverter you pretty much start talking abattery banks like Solar systems use.. Why buy such a large $$$ inverter if you only plan on runinng a couple hundred watts? Same goes for spending 1500bucks on a system. It just sounds kinda of mixed up.

[Playa-1]

The reason for a 2k watt system is to be able to upgrade later without adding an addional inverter. I would not be pulling 2k watts off of the two batteries. But I may want to use more power thru it in the future. Maybe I will get into solar energy in the near future and use some of this equipment integrated into the Solar energy system. If I can get an excellent 2k watt true sine wave inverter for $700 or something that would be extremly limited like a 1000k modified sine wave inverter for $300, then it just makes sence to me to pay the extra money and get the better equipment. Especially if I'm interested in going with sustainable energy in the near future.