Help with sump?

[Maxi]

Hello,

well, I decided I am going to go with a sump for the benefits of hiding all the equipment... (I do not know anything about sumps, except that they are essentially good for your tank)

I have four major questions about making a sump, and drilling the tank..

1. How much will it cost?
2. Does it make any noise?
3. What tools do I need?
4. What else will I need?

This is for my 26g bowfront. I was thinking of a 10 gallon tank to use as a sump.

Thank you

-Max

[MinnFish]

DT need to be drilled (some LFS will do this). Install bulkhead, overflow box and pipe to sump. Place return pump, heater and skimmer (or HOB) in sump and pipe to DT (install ball valve to regulate flow). Overflow will create some noise until you tweak it. Cost, it hard to say. Different areas has different prices. For me, cost was about $150 (including 20L).

[kau_cinta_ku]

for the sump:
you will need the 10 gal. tank
glass cut from a local glass shop for baffles
return pump

for drilling the tank:
diamond hole saw
drill
bulkhead
overflow box.
thos are the basics you can find things in the selling forum cheap so that will take alot of the cost away.

and mine is almost comp. silent.

[Aquarist007]

Check Melev's site for information on sumps--its very informative

http://www.melevsreef.com/

Hand here is a great article by him on sumps

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-01/newbie/index.php

[IslandCrow]

You don't necessarily have to drill your tank, and being a bowfront, there's a decent chance the glass is tempered anyway, which will prevent drilling. Bowfronts are also tough to drill just because it's tough to stabilize a bowed front on a flat surface while you drill.

Anyway, look into the Lifereef overflow boxes. They're kind of costly, but very well built and extremely reliable. You can get cheaper ones, like the CPR oveflow, but they're known to fail.

Check out this website: http://www.melevsreef.com/

Go to the Acrylic Works & DIY section. Melev gets pretty fancy with some of his sump designs, but you'll get the basic idea. As far as noise goes, do a Google search for Stockman and/or Durso standpipe. Much of the noise usually comes from the water flowing from the standpipe down to the sump. If you get a Lifereef, they also sell a "silencer", which I believe is basically a Stockman standpipe. Mine doesn't seem to be loud at all. . .or I've just gotten used to it.

[Maxi]

I found this overflow box.. what do you think?

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=18358

Do I have to drill the 10g sump though? This is really confusing.. I'm still reading that article.

[kau_cinta_ku]

that overflow box will work great.

no need to drill the sump unless you want to run an external pump.

[Maxi]

Just a question, if I can run a 3 gallon tank with no sump succesfully,( for over a year) can I run a 26g without a sump? :D

[kau_cinta_ku]

of course. a sump isn't needed. they are just nice to have if you have the extra money and room. they make a nice place to hide alot of your equipment.

[HaywoodJafragit]

10 gal is a rather small tank not to mention shallow, you'll fit the skimmer and the return pump and that's it; adding the refuge and sump was the best thing I have done so far, my setup looks very clean. I would shoot for the biggest tank I could find providing it will fit inside your cabinet.

Here is what you need:

2 x 3/4" bulkheads $5.50 each ($11)
1 x Danner Mag 3 pump ($55)
1 x 10 gal tank ($10)
PVC plumbing (around $12)
35 mm diamond bit ($11 on eBay)

Total cost: less than $100
The joy of hiding skimmer, heater and other crap: priceless

Drilling is very, very easy, there is a lot of mystery surrounding it but it's piece of cake, all you have to do is keep your diamond bit wet and cold and go slowly.

It will definitely add some volume to your 26 gallon tank, I'm sure you'll be happy.

[IslandCrow]

Design wise, it looks like a pretty good overflow box. That separate compartment where the two U-tubes bring the water in should maintain the siphon even if you lose power and your return pump stops working. I'd remove the two pre-filters on the returns. As they get gunked up, they're going to inhibit your flow. If you keep them reasonably clean, it won't be an issue, though.

As far as needing a sump, I agree with everyone else. They're very nice, but you certainly don't need one. If you have the space I'd do it, though. If you can fit something larger than a 10g, I'd do that as well, but as long as it fits your skimmer and a return pump, I think it's serving a worthwhile purpose.

[Luis138]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12887213#post12887213 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MinnFish
DT need to be drilled (some LFS will do this). Install bulkhead, overflow box and pipe to sump. Place return pump, heater and skimmer (or HOB) in sump and pipe to DT (install ball valve to regulate flow). Overflow will create some noise until you tweak it. Cost, it hard to say. Different areas has different prices. For me, cost was about $150 (including 20L).

What does DT stand for?

Luis

[kau_cinta_ku]

DT = display tank

[Luis138]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12889862#post12889862 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kau_cinta_ku
DT = display tank

DOH!!!! Wow, thank you so much. I feel so dumb now for not seeing the obvious.

Luis

[Maxi]

I guess I'm going to go with the sump then, eh? Minimises water usage..

How am I supposed to do the plumbing though..?

I can glue acrylic.. that's common sense..lol

How do I connect all of this?

[Luis138]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12893110#post12893110 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Maxi
I guess I'm going to go with the sump then, eh? Minimises water usage..

How am I supposed to do the plumbing though..?

I can glue acrylic.. that's common sense..lol

How do I connect all of this?

Not trying to hijack your thread but I also need help with this. I already know how to build my own sump, refugium, baffles, etc, etc.

I just don't, for the life of me, understand about the connection to the DT (see, I learned something new today). I don't know about the overflow box, whether I should drill my tank or use a HOB, diameter of the pipes, size of the pump, size of the bulk head, etc, etc.

I don't want to have a power failure and end up with my reef in my floor.

Luis

[Maxi]

Its okay, we are all learning here.. as long as it stays on topic.

What does a power failure have to do with the tank ending up on the floor?

[Luis138]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12893219#post12893219 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Maxi
Its okay, we are all learning here.. as long as it stays on topic.

What does a power failure have to do with the tank ending up on the floor?

Sorry, I meant with the tank's water ending up on the floor. I read that you have to drill a hole somewhere to prevent this and when the power comes back up it should start again. I just don't want to do it wrong and power failure comes and my tanks keeps draining, lol.

Luis

[Maxi]

I would also like to know that...

I have another question, from where is the water supposed to go back in the Display tank? Another hole to get cut in the DT?

[Luis138]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12893231#post12893231 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Maxi
I would also like to know that...

I have another questions, from where is the water supposed to go back in the tank? Another hole to get cut in the main display?

I think either that or a hang on return line. I figure, if I am going to drill the tank, might as well do the return correctly as well. I don't want one hang on and the other one drilled.

Luis

[Xavier613]

you can just use tubing and a U shaped device such as this http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff206/Jason25/184-1.jpg
correct?

[Tswifty]

Hey guys... here is a thread that should help. I was helping another member out with who had a lot of similiar questions.

He was just considering using a larger sump (20g or 30g)

Sump build questions (a LOT) (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1417422)

[IslandCrow]

That's a good graphical example, Tswifty. I'll go ahead and answer some of the specific questions as well as give a couple other tidbits:

I just don't, for the life of me, understand about the connection to the DT (see, I learned something new today). I don't know about the overflow box, whether I should drill my tank or use a HOB, diameter of the pipes, size of the pump, size of the bulk head, etc, etc.

I don't want to have a power failure and end up with my reef in my floor.

Drilling your tank is usually the best thing to do, but that can't always be done, and that's where overflow boxes come in. If the tank's drilled, you really don't have to worry about the tank flooding after a power loss. It's relying entirely upon gravity to work and not a siphon, and gravity doesn't stop. If you get a good quality overflow box that doesn't rely upon something electrical like a pump and will not lose its siphon (the Lifereef overflows are a good example), you'll also be fine, but a drilled tank is always going to be safer.

What does a power failure have to do with the tank ending up on the floor?

During a power failure, your return pump stops working. Two things can potentially happen. First, if your sump can't hold as much water as your tank can possibly drain into it, you'll get a flood. This is just a poor design and should really never happen. Second, a poorly designed overflow box may lose its siphon without water being pumped back into the tank. When power comes back on, the return pump will start back up, but water will not be draining from the DT. With most sump designs, this will always flood the main tank. One way around this is to divide off a small section of the sump with a set of baffles (or just one baffle). That limits the amount of water available for the pump to push back up to the main tank. The drawback is that you almost need an auto top-off system because the water level in that chamber will be depleted as quickly as 2-3 days due to evaporation, and now you have a burned up pump. The good news is, short of the glass breaking, there's no scenario that can cause your sump or DT to flood.

from where is the water supposed to go back in the Display tank? Another hole to get cut in the DT?

Yes, you can drill more holes in the DT for return lines. Another option is to have your return go up and over the top edge of the tank (basically, a U-tube on the return end). This will be necessary if the tank can't be drilled. If you go up and over, it's common practice to drill what's called an anti-siphon hole. It's just a small hole drilled into the PVC (or whatever you use) just below the waterline. If the return pump loses water, since the return tubing is full of water, it will automatically start a siphon. Once the water line reaches this hole, though, air will enter and break the siphon.