How long do I freshwater dip?

[xenon]

I have a mated pair of true percs that have velvet.

My plan is to dip them for 5mins? Then place them in a hospital tank and treat them with copper for 2weeks, then place them in QT and hyposalinity for 6weeks.

That way my display tank will be fishless for 8weeks.

Am I on the right track here?

[MalHavoc]

Your plan sounds reasonable. Do make an attempt to match temperature and pH for your freshwater dip, though, if possible. It'll lessen the shock.

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12901688#post12901688 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by xenon
I have a mated pair of true percs that have velvet.

My plan is to dip them for 5mins? Then place them in a hospital tank and treat them with copper for 2weeks, then place them in QT and hyposalinity for 6weeks.

That way my display tank will be fishless for 8weeks.

Am I on the right track here?

5 mins is great but be flexible and watch for signs of stress by the perc and pull them out if it is too hard on them

[kevin2000]

Here's a good link on how to perform a FW dip ... remember to aerate the water before doing the dip.

http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/freshwaterdips.html

[xenon]

Thanks guys.

I did a 4min dip and now they are in the hospital tank with copper.

*fingers crossed*

[kevin2000]

Are you sure your clowns have velvet and not brooklynella (aka clownfish disease)? Pretty important since copper won't have any impact if they have brook.

Here's a link to a site that has some good pictures of clowns with brook - might help.

http://www.saltwaterfish.com/vb/showthread.php?t=127010

[xenon]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12902651#post12902651 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kevin2000
Are you sure your clowns have velvet and not brooklynella (aka clownfish disease)? Pretty important since copper won't have any impact if they have brook.

Here's a link to a site that has some good pictures of clowns with brook - might help.

http://www.saltwaterfish.com/vb/showthread.php?t=127010

I am pretty sure.

My flame angel died pretty quick after having him for over 2years. Then my clowns started to show signs.

Here are a few pics of my fish.

http://www.dansouliere.com/pictures/perc1.jpg

http://www.dansouliere.com/pictures/perc2.jpg

http://www.dansouliere.com/pictures/perc3.jpg

[kevin2000]

That looks like brook to me. When you did the FW dip did you see tiny white spots in the bottom of the dip bowl ... if not then its likely brook.

[kevin2000]

double post

[xenon]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12902676#post12902676 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kevin2000
That looks like brook to me. When you did the FW dip did you see tiny white spots in the bottom of the dip bowl ... if not then its likely brook.

Hmm... I never looked.

So if it is brook then how should I treat them?

[kevin2000]

Brooklynella is treated using formalin. Sometimes in a QT but often by giving the fish a prolonged formalin bath - here's a link on how to perform a formalin bath.

http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/formalinbaths.html

Please note that the formalin doseage discussed in this link assumes you are using std formalin which is usually has a 37% formaldehyde content .. the formalin that maybe available at your LFS may have a different concentration.

Do not use formalin and copper in the same tank ... deadly.

In its early stages brooklynella and amylo can be difficult to distinguish ... one of the methods to help determine amylo is to look for a dust like powder in the bottom of the bowl after a FW dip - something that was made popular by Oama who used to hang out in the RC disease forum.

http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/oamasfwdiptest.html

If you want to cover both basis you might consider giving the fish a formalin bath as outlined in the above link. After the bath I would dip the fish in some regular SW to help insure that the formalin is gone and then place him in your QT containing copper.

Hope this helps

[xenon]

I had a look at my fish after the FW dip and it does apear that some of that white stuff came off because she is looking a whole lot better now.

[ReefEnabler]

Just wanted to ask about one thing.

you mentioned treating with copper in the "hospital tank" for a few weeks, and then moving them to the "QT" after that.

I have always seen people use these words interchangebly for the same thing. I thought most people just treated copper in the QT itself, and just slowly did waterchanges without it to bring it out.

is there any special reason that you are using TWO quarantine tanks essentially?

[kevin2000]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12902984#post12902984 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by xenon
I had a look at my fish after the FW dip and it does apear that some of that white stuff came off because she is looking a whole lot better now.

The white stuff seen in your pictures appears to be mucus which will tend to come off every time you handle the fish ... as such having less white stuff on the fish after a FW bath doesn't tell you anything. Clownfish with brook tend to exude excess mucus.

Amylo tends to be a fine velvet sheen on the fish ... often only seen at an angle which is one of the reasons its very difficult to find pictures of fish with amylo on the web.

Its possible your fish has velvet ... but if it were my fish I would assume it was brook. Best bet is to cover both basis.

[xenon]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12902985#post12902985 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RyanBrucks
Just wanted to ask about one thing.

you mentioned treating with copper in the "hospital tank" for a few weeks, and then moving them to the "QT" after that.

I have always seen people use these words interchangebly for the same thing. I thought most people just treated copper in the QT itself, and just slowly did waterchanges without it to bring it out.

is there any special reason that you are using TWO quarantine tanks essentially?

Dont ever use copper in the QT tank because it bonds itself to the silicone and will leach copper for a long time.

[xenon]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12903055#post12903055 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kevin2000
The white stuff seen in your pictures appears to be mucus which will tend to come off every time you handle the fish ... as such having less white stuff on the fish after a FW bath doesn't tell you anything. Clownfish with brook tend to exude excess mucus.

Amylo tends to be a fine velvet sheen on the fish ... often only seen at an angle which is one of the reasons its very difficult to find pictures of fish with amylo on the web.

Its possible your fish has velvet ... but if it were my fish I would assume it was brook. Best bet is to cover both basis.

Interesting.

I am off to get some formalin at my local LFS

[kevin2000]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12903259#post12903259 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by xenon
Dont ever use copper in the QT tank because it bonds itself to the silicone and will leach copper for a long time.

I disagree ... one of the old myths that still hangs around. Cleaning your QT with some mild acid like vinegar should help remove any risk.

[ReefEnabler]

well my QT tank is all acrylic.
I already added copper to it after one of my chromis died of a bacterial infection (dark spot by the fin).

only added a half-dose so far.

[xenon]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12903297#post12903297 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kevin2000
I disagree ... one of the old myths that still hangs around. Cleaning your QT with some mild acid like vinegar should help remove any risk.

You may be right but I wont be taking a chance.

[pledosophy]

A hospital tank needs to be barebottom and rock less. Otherwise the the antibiotics we use to treat the fish would also kill the bacteria in the rock and sand causing an ammonia spike and killing the fish.

A quarantine tank can have rock and sand. It can be set up like a little display so that it is capable of handling it's own bioload.

[xenon]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12903974#post12903974 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by pledosophy
A hospital tank needs to be barebottom and rock less. Otherwise the the antibiotics we use to treat the fish would also kill the bacteria in the rock and sand causing an ammonia spike and killing the fish.

A quarantine tank can have rock and sand. It can be set up like a little display so that it is capable of handling it's own bioload.

A QT tank should not have any rock or sand.

A sponge that has been in your sump for 2weeks is enough for filtration in a HOB filter.

[oama]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12903297#post12903297 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kevin2000
I disagree ... one of the old myths that still hangs around. Cleaning your QT with some mild acid like vinegar should help remove any risk.

I agree with Kevin

[oama]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12903055#post12903055 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kevin2000

Amylo tends to be a fine velvet sheen on the fish ... often only seen at an angle which is one of the reasons its very difficult to find pictures of fish with amylo on the web.


Try this trick. Take a strong torch/flashlight and shine it down onto the fish while viewing it thru the glass. This will illuminate the "Velvety" sheen.

[tmz]

Kevin is right treat with a formalin bath. Excess mucous is a sign of brooklynella. Copper will not help it. It does not have a free swimming life cycle like ich or velvet. It grows on the skin of th fish by simple cell division. and can kill quickly. Amyloodinium(velvet) also kills quickly without treatment. The formalin bath will help both conditions but won't cure either one completely.
I prefer Formalin 3 which is a 3% solution. use a buckett and a small powerhead for airation during the 45 to 50 minute bath and observe for signs of stress.
After the bath I would treat with copper assuming it is velvet and if the infestation seemed to worsen after a day or so I would move the fish to a formalin bath again and into a tank with formalin treatment(which is a lower dose) for about five days. You can't use the formalin with the copper since it can increases copper's toxicity or diminish the coppers effectiveness.,depending upon the type of copper in use.
Good luck.