Aquatic Showroom [Archive] - Reef Central Online Community

mrgreenthumb

07/31/2008, 12:36 PM

That tank is way to small to be keeping blacktip sharks at that size. But I guess if all you want to do is wow people it looks like you have achieved your goal. Sorry if I'm not jumping out of my seat to praise your irresponsibililty with choice of inhabitants. Would you put a grouper in a fish bowl too? I don't mean to rain on your parade here, the ship around the tank looks very nice but it is the responsibility of local fish stores to first of all educate themselves on the proper care of the animals they bring in and then teach as many people as possible how to do the same. It is also the responsibility of the hobbyists to learn as much as possible about the LIVE animals they are trying to keep and NOT just buying things that look cool and will impress their friends even if it doesn't live long. I often times am ashamed to be in this hobby/profession because of many people's attitudes/ignorance. But there ARE some responsible hobbyists as well and I commend those of you out there who fight the urge to buy something you know you shouldn't, and those of you producing life and giving back to the hobby but I feel that is not enough. Everyone in the hobby should be giving back to the ocean in any way possible. Donate, pickup trash, volunteer, anything to repay her for all she has given us. Sorry about the rant.

mrgreenthumb

07/31/2008, 12:55 PM

Oh and I also wanted to say that this is not mrgreenthumb, I am his friend and didn't feel like looking up my ID so if you are one of those types that are just looking to argue and question me don't bother mrgreenthumb. I've worked as a public aquarist, ran saltwater fish stores, and worked in the field if you are wondering what my background is. Keeping salt for ten years now not that I believe the number of years has anything to do with someone's skill, knowledge, or experience.

aquaclear500

08/01/2008, 08:36 PM

What size would you think is good for black tip?

D to the P

08/04/2008, 02:44 AM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13071274#post13071274 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by aquaclear500
What size would you think is good for black tip?

hmmm...How about the ocean?
Seeing as how they are Red Listed.
http://www.shark.ch/Database/Search/species.html?sh_id=1009
http://www.iucnredlist.org/search/details.php/3851/summ

This has to be one of the most irresponsible things I've seen in a while.

The owner of this store should be ashamed of themselves for even thinking that a black tip shark would be a good idea in ANY aquarium unless he is running an Aquarium (as in the business is an aquarium, like a National Aquarium).

Absolutely ridiculous and border line revolting. :furious:

GSMguy

08/04/2008, 12:35 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13071274#post13071274 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by aquaclear500
What size would you think is good for black tip?

a few thousand gallons.

aquaclear500

08/04/2008, 12:47 PM

They have over 4000 gallons now!

AgentSPS

08/04/2008, 01:02 PM

I hear the laser beams for the sharks should be ready in a few weeks. Can't wait!

D to the P

08/04/2008, 02:25 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13086121#post13086121 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by aquaclear500
They have over 4000 gallons now!

These sharks get 4 feet long and are used to swimming in large shoals in open water.
They aren't even close to mature yet and they already look cramped. I wouldn't even put one in a 4000 gallon aquarium.
Having those sharks in there is irresponsible and detrimental to the sharks health. It's worse than keeping a tang in a twenty gallon. There are plenty of other sharks to choose from that would be a much better choice in the aquarium, and the owner of the store should have done his research before putting those fish in that small of a tank. I don't even know how someone could respect the owners opinion on any fish's care when he had complete disregard for it by stocking this tank with black tip sharks.
I was told that this guy said he was going to get in 2 hammerheads too. Another shark that is red listed, gets very large, and is known to swim in open water. I hope this isn't true, and if it is I hope he doesn't plan on putting them in with the black tips.
One of you responsible aquarist in that area should really bring this to the owners attention. Hopefully he's just an idiot and not just ignorant.

MPeer

08/04/2008, 07:08 PM

When I was snorkeling in French Polynesia, the black-tips were over 5 feet. I'm sure the owner knows that it's a big no-no, he's probably doing it to impress and shock people.

black_majik

08/04/2008, 10:26 PM

Oh well here goes another store which is a complete disgrace to the hobby. I thought it was bad when my LFS threw 15 clowns in a 700 gallon, but the black tip shark on a stupid pirate ship takes the title.....

AQUATIC FAIL.

The shameful thing is people well think that is awesome, I will consider bringing in a large Black Tip Shark Red Listed sign in and contacting their local news for the evening story. That should get that place in line.

aquaclear500

08/05/2008, 03:54 PM

Banghaii Cardinals are red listed too. Shall we bash everystore as well.

AgentSPS

08/05/2008, 04:02 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13094471#post13094471 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by aquaclear500
Banghaii Cardinals are red listed too. Shall we bash everystore as well.

I think most, if not all, are captive bred right?

Radar1

08/05/2008, 05:41 PM

Go see the tank in person then make judgment.

unclefrosby

08/05/2008, 09:21 PM

I think it is pathetic how everyone on this forum will totally discount the efforts put into a project of this size and bash it the first chance they get. Some other competitors of this store have put black tips that are more mature than these in 120 gal sumps and 200 gal tanks to put them up for sale, not to mention the fact they are sponsors of this web site. The reallity is that the "pond" that is housed in the bottom of the ship actually goes the full 20ftx8ftx4ft. It should take years for them to outgrow the pond by then Max will be building a 20000 tank for them.

unclefrosby

08/05/2008, 10:10 PM

One more thing I think that a counter boy at a LFS in pobunk whatever the hell town your from in the middle of nowhere wouldnt generally know a lot about keeping black tips from his own personal knowledge, maybe when you post a pic of you marine biology doctrate from Amishville University I will then listen to what you think.

Mr hide behind my friends thumb with your knowledge of picking up the squid dropings for feeding such animals like black tips at your local aquarium and obviously not stating what reputable LFS that you worked at or co-owned to compete with a store like this. If you knew anything about keeping up a LFS you would know appearance and wow factor is what keeps people coming in the store which is probably why you either dont work their any more or have created a name for yourself. We take procautions out here in the bay to protect our investments, we dont buy stuff just to kill it. A 4000 gal tank with a water volume of 9000 gal and a 12 ft. RK2 skimmer seems pretty reasonable with keeping these animals, but you wouldn't understand that becuase thats probably twice the size of the store you worked for.

Black majik you just a plain idiot. 15 clowns in a 700 gal tank leaves you a lot of room to still put more fish in. Most LFS would put 15 clowns in a 20gal, have you ever been into a supplier? Congradulations on 12gal nano cube "reef" that has one mushroom in it, and your 75 gal with one clown and one BTA with an undergravel filter. I am very impressed with your knowledge and thanks from the bottom of my heart for breaking new grounds on the industry with your $300 investment .

Aaron please come by and look at the store before jumping to conclutions.

THERE!!!! it doesnt feel so good to get bashed by someone you dont even know does it??? No disrespect to anyone but I feel a lot of forums on this web site are far under utilized and are more used for the pleasure of people who dont know what they are doing to feel better about themselves. Grow a pair and stop acting like little girls arguing about wether backstreet boys or nsync is a better group.

thanks again

http://www.chaoticconcepts.com/haterade.gift

cabbage2003

08/05/2008, 10:30 PM

Individual adults inhabit a relatively small home range of ±2.5 km2 and appear to reside close to their home reef but occasionally cross deepwater channels between adjacent reefs.

i mean 4000g is close to that right? i mean why would someone actually want to promote sustainability instead of fattening there own pockets?

rishma

08/05/2008, 10:35 PM

this thread went from WOW to Holier than Thou to Holy Cow in 2 short pages.

Jim_S

08/05/2008, 10:45 PM

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m199/jimdogg187/Misc/party0052.gif

sheepdawg

08/05/2008, 10:51 PM

I visited the store today and all I can is WOW! Amazing what he's done with the place. If you get a chance you got to see it in person. I wouldn't worry about the sharks, if you've been to the place you'll know there's plenty of space for a larger tank when it gets to that point... and as you've seen Max is not afraid to go big! Can't wait to see the place fully stocked.

MPeer

08/05/2008, 10:53 PM

I've actually been there and all I have to say is that for that size tank, it didn't look like it will be big enough for them once they grow bigger, which could be over 5 feet.

Yes, they're small now but what are his real plans for them when they get bigger?

Also, I shouldn't have said what I said about his purpose in putting them in the tank. Currently, we don't know what his plans are unless you know. If it offends anybody, I apologize for that.

Can't we have a constructive argument instead of bashing one another?

unclefrosby

08/06/2008, 12:57 AM

I have no problem with anyone on reef central and am not here to bash everyone. Its obvious that the sharks will get bigger but in captivity at such a young age their growth will be slower than it would be in the wild. Does everyone go into the store looking to but a clown trigger or a vlamingi tang for their 75 gal tank expecting the 12 to 14 inch full size that these animals could get, no there is a certain amount of neglect that ALL inhabitants will undergo while in captivity. The same thing could be to all wild caught livestock that is being said about these sharks.

the bottom line is that this vendor is excited to introduce a new fish store that will have their product, and that the fish store is one of the largest aquariums that is in the west coast at 23,000sq.ft.

AgentSPS

08/06/2008, 10:52 AM

http://homeschooljourney.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/soap-box.jpg

scuba71

08/06/2008, 02:52 PM

unclefrosby, you hit the nail right on the head.

For other folks, please know your facts before commenting. And don't just comment for the sake of commenting.

Max has been in the hobby for a very long time, and he knows how to take care of his fish. I was there last night to check it out again, for the 20th time. I have seen his place when he was in the early stage of construction. From my point of view, these sharks have a hell of a lot more room than other LFS's in the bay area for such young sharks.

Please before making any judgments, I ask you to know your facts.

Peace.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13096610#post13096610 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by unclefrosby
I think it is pathetic how everyone on this forum will totally discount the efforts put into a project of this size and bash it the first chance they get. Some other competitors of this store have put black tips that are more mature than these in 120 gal sumps and 200 gal tanks to put them up for sale, not to mention the fact they are sponsors of this web site. The reallity is that the "pond" that is housed in the bottom of the ship actually goes the full 20ftx8ftx4ft. It should take years for them to outgrow the pond by then Max will be building a 20000 tank for them.

Radar1

08/06/2008, 03:03 PM

I had to look up that soapbox thing dude.

"Commerical Datacenter Outsourcing" who do you work for agent SPS?

unclefrosby

08/06/2008, 03:49 PM

hey cabbage why dont you go back on google and cut and paste the home range of a yellow tang your knowledge is only based on what your search engine can find for you. Your argument could be said the same about any grazing fish that is kept in captivity. It is our job as hobbyists to keep the inhabitants of our tank in what they would be use to in the wild but some things just cannot be duplicated. If Max had these sharks for sale and would sell them to someone who had no idea how to take care of them that wanted to finally live their "scarface" fantasy then I would say that he is neglecting them. Somethings should be left to the pros.

mrgreenthumb

08/06/2008, 05:19 PM

Well I found my ID, pardalis07, but I haven't used it for so long I can't post. First of all, I will have some pics posted later of the approx 1 million gallon walk thru shark tank that we had our three blacktip reefs along with 3 sandtigers, 8 sandbar, 4 zebra, 5 ornate and 1 tassled wobbies, a loggerhead and green sea turtle. The large shark tank also had holding pens off display with the smallest one being about the same size as the pirate ship. The blacktips were captive bred at the Shedd Aqurium in Chicago. We, the Kingdom of The Seas Aquarium at the World Class Henry Doorly Zoo had to drive a large carrier semi up there with specially designed transport tanks just to bring them back. Each shark was on a specific diet proportionate to its size including salmon, tuna, squid, and makerel with the appropriate number of vitiamins injected to the fish. Sharks can grow much faster than they would in the wild due to the consistancy and quality of their diet in captivity and can easily be over or under fed. Fatty liver is one common problem due to excessive feeding and/or not enough swimming room. Our sharks would also have bloodwork done by a team of top zoo vets.

Another rather large difference between elasmos and bony fish would be their extra senses of magnetic feilds which adversely affects its ability to acclimate to a smaller or unproper tank. A personal friend of mine, Scott Michael, who is a well known authority on husbandry of captive fishes recommends in his book, Sharks and Rays for the Aquarium, a Minimum of 5700 gal for a blacktip reef shark. And for three it would be more. He also talks about how skiddish and flighty young blacktips can be which is another reason not to keep them in a tank that is too small or too full of decoration. The pirate ship falls into both of those categories. As for the 20,000 gal tank that he is 'going to build', that would be much better but until I see pics he can talk about the half million gal tank that is 'going to be built'.

There are already too few sharks left in the wild. Just because something is cool and obtainable doesn't mean you should have it. I was just trying to point out that there were a hundred better, more responsible, and equally cool animals that could have been chosen for the tank. If it had to have sharks, why not bamboos and eppaulettes with some smaller rays and interesting fish. There would be a much greater chance of reproduction, less aggression, and the animals would fit. For their whole life, and not just physically but behaviorally.

I did not mean to 'bash' the store or the owner, just the decision to put blacktips in there. There was never any mention of a larger tank being built and until that actually happens they are in fact in too small of a tank. And just because something lives does not mean the tank is appropriately sized. As I said in the frist reply, I am not trying to pick a virtual fight here, as there really is no argument I am willing to accept. Question me all you want, I can back it up.

Jim_S

08/06/2008, 05:28 PM

Get over it guys, You're spamming up this forum.

You know there is a "responsible reefkeeping" forum right???

Take the soap boxes over there and duke it out. This is the ATB skimmer forum :)

Not the "I keep marine fish in a small box but want to chastise others for the same thing forum".

mrgreenthumb

08/06/2008, 05:39 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13097219#post13097219 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Jim_S
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m199/jimdogg187/Misc/party0052.gif
Hmmm who is spamming??

Jim_S

08/06/2008, 05:43 PM

I was trying to give a subtle hint to those who are participating in this pointless argument. You obviously didn't get the message :)

Besides, if you look in this forum, I'm actually one who contributes, and will continue to contribute. You on the other hand are just here to preach.

So please take your sermon and soap box and tell the people in the responsible reef keeping forum who actually care about your opinion :)

unclefrosby

08/06/2008, 05:48 PM

im glad you and mrgreenthumb are keeping a good long distance relationship being that his location is oregon and the henry doorly zoo is in omaha nebraska. Beside the point all I was trying to say is I bashed you with no idea of what you knowledge or without any first hand viewing of your aquarium if you do work at one. THIS IS ATB'S FORUM FOR THEIR VENDORS. If you want to talk about how much capacity Aquarium Showroom can handle of their products or what skimmers or reactors they will be using on their own tanks this is the place, not to cut down the integrity of the store byy calling them irresponsible. I have no problem with anyone I just get upset when forums are under utilized and used for bashing people.

unclefrosby

08/06/2008, 05:49 PM

thanks Jim S. And sorry for getting off topic before.

unclefrosby

08/06/2008, 06:46 PM

when will aquatic showroom be getting in ATB skimmers anyway??

unclefrosby

08/06/2008, 06:46 PM

when will aquatic showroom be getting in ATB skimmers anyway??

Shawn D

08/06/2008, 07:58 PM

Is the store open? I am in San Jose for a hockey tournament starting August 28th and would love to stop by

unclefrosby

08/06/2008, 08:36 PM

yes they are open 11 to 8

Jim_S

08/06/2008, 08:40 PM

No need to apologize to me my friend :) This is Victor's forum.

When the skimmers do come in I think they should throw one on the shark tank :D I'd bet you'd really see some serious poo in that cup!

unclefrosby

08/06/2008, 08:56 PM

i think they already put a 6ft RK2 on it

Jim_S

08/06/2008, 08:59 PM

Yeah, the ATB will blow that thing outta the water. IIRC, the air draw on those things weak sauce. Is cool though. Toss an XL cone in the sump and watch how much better it is :lol:

unclefrosby

08/06/2008, 09:45 PM

I think he wants to put the commercial ATB on the Reef Systems.

unclefrosby

08/06/2008, 09:54 PM

Victor and Max have been friends for Many many years. max bought car stereos from him. He even helped with some of the shop tanks during construction.

Jim_S

08/06/2008, 11:36 PM

Heck, then he should be running 2!!! One for each system! http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m199/jimdogg187/Misc/brow1.gif

mrgreenthumb

08/07/2008, 01:14 PM

So I just picked up one of the Large kiddy pools from wal mart, I'm going to put some baby sea turtles in there, you know just until they get bigger, then they will be getting the XL kiddy pool. I was just wondering which ATB skimmer I would need to make it ok to keep them in there. I was thinking two rk2's would pull out some serious poo. I know this ? may be a little off topic but do you think I should put some floating islands in there for them. maybe a rock to crawl up on. Man are people going to be wowed when they see those turtles. Please help me for I have very few posts which means I don't know what I am talking about. How many skimmers does it take to keep a dolphin? I love those things. Man ignorance is bliss, huh? You guys agree. Glad I'm not on the responsible forum otherwise someone might care. Let's talk about skimmers. ATB's make all other skimmers xtra weak sauce. What pump do you find works best for those 6 footers. You know so that cup reallly fills up with poo.

Radar1

08/07/2008, 01:26 PM

Maybe a sandy island for the turtles

Make it a really big skimmer for the dolphin. make sure you immunize the dolphin as well.

unclefrosby

08/07/2008, 02:56 PM

Looks like someone not getting the point.

Jim_S

08/07/2008, 03:51 PM

:D

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m199/jimdogg187/Avatars/Troll_beta.jpg

lamarine23

08/07/2008, 04:11 PM

Okay for those who are on here preaching about keeping the sharks you've made your point! Can we get back to skimmers already.

Radar1

08/07/2008, 04:21 PM

"Okay for those who are on here preaching about keeping the sharks you've made your point! Can we get back to skimmers already."

right on. I am really looking forward to the new hang/ or in sump skimmer. sounds real good for my 55.

black_majik

08/07/2008, 06:00 PM

I love how unclefrosby believes 15 clownfish is a normal and good choice in any sized domestic tank. BTW the wow effect pleases morons like you simple minded idiots. Which is the entire population, but when they get knowledge then they can take a look and say "wait thats not right". But it is a huge shame when someone has that knowledge and still goes "duh duh haha thats pretty."

And don't you go talking about my tank when you have never seen it ,your adding my points to your Stupid Rep. I have no 12g anymore and I have much more in my 75. Great job in looking at old posts you mid 40's moron. Next you say someone needs a college degree in marine biology for you to believe that a Black Tip Shark gets 5 ft and shoals in vast areas in the ocean?? At least D to the P left reputable sources for us to look at. What did you leave? The assurance of a mid 40s old man inside is house knows best. You got to be kidding me. Your a joke, that store's stocking ideas are a joke, and EVERYONE agrees with that. Now shut up and go to a zoo where the lion in a 8ft by 8ft pen entertains you.

black_majik

08/07/2008, 06:06 PM

For the record, I know it seems like I hate the store. But I do give the owner props for the whole idea, it looked promising but making such a horrible choice in animal selection reminds me no store will care about the marine life they sell but more about whats in the customer's wallets. There are other ways you can attract customers and putting an endangered shark in an extremely undersized tank is not a good start for the critics.

chadfarmer

08/07/2008, 06:15 PM

who cares complaining isnt going to change anything

lamarine23

08/07/2008, 06:46 PM

Once again all points have been made, please refrain from calling each other names or we will have the mods remove you. I can have some heated discussions too but lets not get carried away folks.

Skimmer talk anyone?

D to the P

08/07/2008, 07:00 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13096949#post13096949 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by unclefrosby
One more thing I think that a counter boy at a LFS in pobunk whatever the hell town your from in the middle of nowhere wouldnt generally know a lot about keeping black tips from his own personal knowledge, maybe when you post a pic of you marine biology doctrate from Amishville University I will then listen to what you think.

Mr hide behind my friends thumb with your knowledge of picking up the squid dropings for feeding such animals like black tips at your local aquarium and obviously not stating what reputable LFS that you worked at or co-owned to compete with a store like this. If you knew anything about keeping up a LFS you would know appearance and wow factor is what keeps people coming in the store which is probably why you either dont work their any more or have created a name for yourself. We take procautions out here in the bay to protect our investments, we dont buy stuff just to kill it. A 4000 gal tank with a water volume of 9000 gal and a 12 ft. RK2 skimmer seems pretty reasonable with keeping these animals, but you wouldn't understand that becuase thats probably twice the size of the store you worked for.

http://www.chaoticconcepts.com/haterade.gift

:lol: I'll show you my BS in marine biology in 2 years when I'm out of college. But until then I guess my opinion on sharks is irrelevant, even if I have taken many classes in marine biology (more specifically oceanography, ichthyology, and classes specifically geared towards learning more about sharks and their allies). But you would know because, well I mean, you got a bigger tank. :D
I don't like to mention the LFS that I work at because I wouldn't want people like you harassing me :lol:, and I'm not being paid to represent the store.
I know what you're saying about stealing this guys thread and I agree that this argument is a bit out of place, but the fact of the matter is your argument that the tank is big enough has no basis on any information aside from what you feel is reasonable. I feel sad for the sharks that seemingly find their way into the LFS's in the Bay area.
Well the pirate ship looks cool, and for some people that's all that matters. I hope many ATB skimmers are sold at the store. The owner will need the extra coin for the 20,000 gallon aquarium he's going to build to protect his investments. And I genuinely hope that he does seeing as how the sharks are already low in numbers.
I'd rather not go back and forth unclefrosby. You can PM me if for some reason you want to discuss any of this further because I'm gonna unsubscribe to this thread. But thanks for the rant and keep on protecting your investments! :)
I'm sorry to all of you who are just excited to get a big LFS in your area and just wanna talk about it. I hope the store meets all of your needs and more.

microbubbles

08/07/2008, 09:04 PM

store looks fantastic, however... it does make me cringe. personally, if it were my business, last thing i would want is to spend that amount of money on a monstrosity of a display only to house 3 big sharks in it. kind of a waste, if you ask me.

with that said, it's a business... brass tacks, the main goal of any business is to make money (maybe his only goal, who knows?)... and factor in his huge overhead... it's probably mind-blowing. sure, it seems a little wrong to me, but i just dunno about guys who talk like greenpeace conservationists on this forum and keep 180+ gallon aquariums stocked w/ whatever they can find at a good price. deep inside everyone of these finger pointers is a guilty conscience. deep down, i bet a lot of you (maybe me too?) would single-handedly slay a wild reef to stock your tank w/ the best any of us has ever seen and go on to be (cue roman choir)... TOTM.

let's be real... every hardcore reefer is contributing their fair share to the great wild demise that we always hear about. i don't care if EVERY frag and fish you have is aquacultured... at some point, it all came out of the ocean... and w/ this ever-growing market for these exotic aquacultured corals, all you're doing is encouraging a lot of these businesses to crack the whip harder on their collectors/suppliers to find MORE RARE! MORE COLORFUL! to become the new LE you can't wait to be waitlisted for. moreover, guys like Walt Smith are hiring mainland americans who cut their teeth in the wholesale side of this business to sites like fiji to collect what sells for max dollars (i.e. strange/rare/unusual glowing blue/purple acroporas) in the hobby and pass along that information to local collectors so the cycle continues.... that's where your LE's come from. the LE's you pay so much for, yet allow you to sleep well at night because you're not as careless and irresponsible as the next guy. 'responsible reefkeeping'? sounds a lot like 'deafening silence' if you ask me.

as for public aquariums- i dunno how humane it is to train killer whales and bottlenosed dolphins to jump through hoops for fish... i was at seaworld earlier this year and i was pretty disappointed at the size of the tanks the orcas are kept in when they aren't performing. furthermore, i would imagine that there is a pretty large turnover (aka DEATH RATE) in their displays. "whoops, lost a leafy sea dragon today, call up australia and see how soon we can get another one." for all that science and marine biology has taught them, for all the resources available, at the end of the day THEY are also a business with a very strong focus on tickets sold.

as far as our personal tanks go, even if you observe all the rules- i.e., keep only what you can keep alive, do your homework/due diligence in advance, maintain your water chemistry and get the proper equipment (and know how to use it)- at the end of the day, this is still a very selfish hobby and we're all at fault.
as for me- i have bought, kept, lost plenty of wild. but i don't lie to myself about it. i'm in this hobby because i'm not a 30-year-old multi-millionaire retiree jetting off to the maldives or bali every month to scuba dive. i, like most of you, have this glitch in my programming- a "collector mentality", where i want the really eye-pleasing stuff, under my care, in my possession. sure, i buy frags of stuff i like. i still buy wild too (just like how over 99% of all reefcentral members' fish are wild). knowing what i know, and still continuing to do what i do... does it make me evil or a bad person? possibly. but the last thing i'm doing is lying to myself about it. i'm just saying... the scarlet letter is not just on this new aquarium. and just because you worked at a zoo, or you're working on a marine biology degree doesn't exactly give you a reprieve either. save for a VERY select few, it's on all of us. pro-wild caught and pro-aquaculture. you, me and the next guy.

Radar1

08/07/2008, 09:26 PM

It's really not a montrosity when you concider that the actual store portion of most or all LFS dont make them that much money. Max and his crew built most or all of the displays in the store and are most likely trying to showcase to potential customers what they can do for them. take a look at MARVEL they have two 3000 gallon tanks in there lobby. can you imagine the cost for maintaining tanks that size, for big spenders who want to wow the people comming into there establishments. anyone who goes to Max's store will see more than tanks on metal stands and maybe spark some iterest in what my girlfriend calls a nerd hobby. Most people dont care about concerving something they dont give a crap about, so maybe a store like this will make people appreciate the creatures we keep and be more aware of conservation rather than passing reefs off as stupid nerd S#!t.

microbubbles

08/07/2008, 09:29 PM

oh yeah...
so, victor... next week on that new airstar, huh? :D looking forward to it (bet you didn't think this was going to happen as a result of posting a few pics, ay?). ;)

microbubbles

08/07/2008, 09:36 PM

Radar1, i hear your argument, but i just don't buy it. if that were so, why didnt Finding Nemo ignite a spark and send the masses rushing to join up w/ nature conservation groups? all it did was bring a massive crop of knowlegeless moviegoers into these very same shops to buy a clown, hippo tang and a nano-cube, right?

unclefrosby

08/07/2008, 09:38 PM

Im not even the least bit suprised that any of you idiots even understood a single thing that I was trying to say. IM NOT 40. As a matter of fact I'm in my 20's, anyone want to now comment on how im naive and ignorant because of my age instead of being old and grumpy? Im not getting into some stupid keyboard war with a bunch of people that have too much time on their hands. Every one has a valid point in this, except mrgreenthumb and black majick. You are some of the most pointless people on this website that I have ever come across, hounding forums to get your mindless unrelative point across that has little or no reason to be on the forum your commenting to begin with.

Black majick your tank Im sure sucks I dont need to see it.

Mrgreenthumb good comback on being from omaha, quit putting up a front your not impressing anyone.

I dont need to prove anything to any of you, go iron a coralife shirt and continue to think that you are serious about the industry. appologies to ATB for flooding this thread and calling out all sensitive reef geeks or want to be reef geeks to proove that they are somebody.

microbubbles

08/07/2008, 09:48 PM

on the contrary, unclefrosby, you seem to have quite a lot of time on your hands... and all i need to do is review the last page on this thread to realize that YOU (yup, you.) were the one who lit the match on this gassy ****heap "keyboard war". it's easy to spew all that drivel and shout insults then tie a bow over everything w/ that meaningless apology to Victor, isn't it?

btw, that grammar in first sentence in your last post was atrocious. i'm suprised I understood what you were trying to say :) til you can at least get that right, i'd hold off on referring to everybody as idiots. btw, you prob know as well as i do that the guys upstairs on this forum don't take too kindly to hostile language directed at other members (amongst a million other things=/)... i recommend you walk softly for a bit

Shawn D

08/07/2008, 11:03 PM

Idk about all this keyboard warfare, I just really want to go visit the store, this thread is about Aquatic Showroom right?

black_majik

08/07/2008, 11:23 PM

Thank you unclefrosby for strengthening my point. You find tanks that look better means the person knows more haha, a great point is Randy Homes Farley his tank isn't jaw dropping TOTM amazement yet he probably knows more about science and chemistry than you can ever know about pushing buttons on a machine, I hate to whip out the personal attacks but someone needs to remind you of your place, same as I am 16, yes your getting verbally owned by a 16 year old, who works at a LFS, again I guess I must understand because this comes from a guy who sits and pushes buttons on a machine that drills holes all day. Thanks for your direct personal attacks on something irrelevant to the point ( as seen in your first post) I find it funny that I am an idiot for saying something true while all you say is.....

pointless, complete idiot, many typos, your tank sucks, I don't need to see it because if I do it would further add points to my Stupid Rep.

Aside from that I think the store has a lot of potential minus the stocking plane wreck. Any updated pictures? and does this store excusively sell ATB skimmers or just one that carries them?

mrgreenthumb

08/08/2008, 04:12 AM

I worked at the zoo in omaha from 2001 to 2006 and now live in oregon not that my location means anything at all. I've seen reefs around the world with at least 200 open water dives and I am also 25 so once again you can take your foot out of your mouth unclefrosby. I had my divemaster at 18, wrote the chapter on Hippocampus fuscus for the 05 Syngnathid Husbandry manual, started a seahorse breeding program, volunteered for Project Seahorse and lived in Northern Bohol(Philippines) for 2 months surveying the reefs in MPA's and non MPA sites and helping local communities manage the MPA's. They pick 2-6 people worldwide for the position by the way. I have worked for five different saltwater stores in the last ten years, both good and bad. I have seen the destruction first hand, with dynomite going off in the distance and fish after fish die due to the stress of transport and from poor husbandry and poor collection. I have lost many fish and feel bad but instead of just accepting and saying everyone else does too is something I refuse to do. I pick up other peoples trash at the beach. Donate to several organizations. I try and give back and make responsible descisions and urge others to do the same.

And seaworld does not count as a public aquarium. There are animals that don't belong in captivity. Whales, dolphins, and whale sharks, in my opinion, are some of those animals. As for loosing a leafy seadragon and just ordering up some more from Pang in australia, not happening in any aquariums I know. Yes some do die but they are about 5 grand each and only available once or twice a year. And they are captive raised. Our food bill to keep 5 dragons(leafy and weedy) was over 60 grand a year in live mysis. They were monitored very closely and had anything and everything you can think of to help them/treat them/keep them on hand. The Weedy and Ribboned Pipefish are successfully being captively bred and raised and Leafy's are next. And yes aquariums take from the ocean and use a lot of resources but they are giving back by educating, researching, reproducing, and contributing to conservation organizations directly and indirectly. The accountants worried about tickets, the keepers care about the animals the are responsible for.

There, now after defending myself again I am done. Keep attacking and I will keep throwing it right back at you. Not as if this thread ever truly was on topic. It started with a bunch of pictures of a pirate ship tank with sharks in it with no pics or mention of ATB skimmers other than the fact that the store is one of their new dealers. Not till after my post was given the old cop out of being off topic. If you don't care about the ocean you have no right to be in this hobby.

unclefrosby

08/08/2008, 03:25 PM

I used to be a cnc operator and a custom cabinet maker and a construction worker for some of the most high end homes in the bay area. Now for the last couple years I have been building fish stores and have been in the industry for 7 years. Atlantis Aquarium to name one was built and managed by myself for a little while, I hope you get where Im going with this and understand how I can be touchy about bashing the pirate ship. Im just someone who takes pride in my work.

mrgreenthumb

08/08/2008, 03:46 PM

Understandable, and I have no problem with the ship at all. It looks good. Just needs different inhabitants. Is that the Atlantis Aquarium in the Bahamas or Atlantis Marine World in Long Island. The bahamas one is pretty cool, I just wish it were seperated a little bit more from the casino/hotel. The displays are spread all over the place and I don't know if I saw all of them or not. I did the Aqua Cat live aboard that docks in paradise island and that was a fun trip. If it were the Atlantis in Long Island then you must know Joe Y who started and runs that aquarium. We sent them a ton of frags for their 20000 reef and he is good friends with my old boss. I wanted to make it there when I was in NY but missed the subway. He is looking to build another aquarium soon but hasn't decided on a location yet. I say portland needs warm water displays badly. The aquariums up here are mostly pnw displays which are cool but not as cool in my opinion.

unclefrosby

08/08/2008, 04:42 PM

no I wish I was a part of that. Im talking about atlantisaquarium.net. The ones that sell frags.

AgentSPS

08/08/2008, 05:31 PM

Hey everyone....now we can all have black tips! Maybe they will even throw in a used bathtub to house them in.

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/hsh/781490870.html

black_majik

08/08/2008, 08:25 PM

I was going to say, The Paradise Island Atlantis Aquarium would have been very impressive

orientalexpress

08/09/2008, 12:02 AM

Hey everyone....now we can all have black tips! Maybe they will even throw in a used bathtub to house them in Hey Eric,i might get one for my tank :),if they're die i could alway sell the fins to a chinese resturant,i heard they're paid premium price for them,at least i get some money back unlike some fishes we're kept.

lapsan

mrgreenthumb

08/09/2008, 12:40 AM

why not just cut the fins off right away and throw it in a dumpster, that's what most those asian cultures do. Eat some dried seahorses too because they cure everything even though none of it has ever been proven. It's only a couple hundred thousand pounds of DRIED seahorses a year for Traditonal Chinese Medicine. The main importing countries all backed out of the CITES agreement restricting International seahorse trade too so those efforts were pretty much a failure in the big picture. And shark fins are used to make nothing more than a noodle substitute so if that is funny somehow please let me know. These practices continue and there will be nothing left sooner than you think. And then there will be no choice but to find an alternative so why not do that now while there still is life in the sea. I certaintly don't expect that many people to really give a sh but honestly I am a little suprised by the reaction of this particualar niche. I can only hope that many of you do care and just don't like me talking about it on this thread. I do feel bad since obviously I came off as bashing Max, which I didn't mean to, sorry. I hope he is as responsible as you say he is and does build the large tank and keeps the sharks problem free for a long time. But he would be, unfortunately, an exception above the average store owner.

moo0o

08/09/2008, 05:06 AM

sharkfin soup is hecka good! anyway, gonna stop by max's tomorrow to check out his shop, i keep hearing stories about it!

kris4647

08/09/2008, 09:18 PM

I'm not at all wanting to get into this raging argument but it occurs to me that our hobby is rife with questionable environmental decisions.

Would my fish live longer in the ocean, methinks yes. Even without regard to the size of what we keep it occurs to me at least that we are guilty.

To all the pundits here...

Where'd you get your liverock?
Were all your corals propagated?
Where's the line where we can stop debating sharks and call our hobby good for the environment et al?

Tough one IMO. Won't get solved with name calling either.

Very small .02

orientalexpress

08/09/2008, 09:35 PM

yep,everything in our hobby is all from the ocean but according to someone .Everything she's had in her tank is alright but hasten everyone else livestocks.Go figure :(

lapsan

mrgreenthumb

08/11/2008, 12:35 PM

If I'm coming off as having never bought something I shouldn't have then I'm sorry because I have. But not knowingly at the time. If I come to learn that something either doesn't last or doesn't belong in captivity or needs care that I honestly can't give it from home then I don't buy/order it anymore. I already admitted that most of the livestock is still coming directly from the ocean and that's why as hobbyists we should find ways to give back which is what I ORIGINALLY said in my first post. All you people with the 'what's done is done' attitude are ****ed at me because you don't want to know the truth because you like the status quo and as long as no one tells you otherwise you don't have to take any responsibility. And to argue that even aquacultured livestock at on point came from the sea is idiotic. Everyone with have a brain knows that but if 1 person gets a wild coral, grows it up and 10 people buy frags from it instead of buying ten more corals from the wild it is obviously going to lessen the stress on the reefs and people will also have a hardier coral with a more accurate representation of what they are actually getting since wild corals often change in appearance after being in captivity for some time. Educate yourself before you talk anymore please. Your sentences don't even make sense lapsan

Jim_S

08/11/2008, 12:53 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13132029#post13132029 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mrgreenthumb
All you people with the 'what's done is done' attitude are ****ed at me because you don't want to know the truth because you like the status quo and as long as no one tells you otherwise you don't have to take any responsibility.

No, everyone is p'od at you because you keep bringing your soap box into this forum and preaching to us. THIS IS NOT THE PROPER FORUM TO TAKE UP THIS MATTER. ARE YOU DENSE???????????????????? WE DON'T CARE ABOUT YOUR OPINION BECAUSE WE ARE HERE TO LEARN ABOUT PRODUCTS. NOT RESPONSIBLE REEF KEEPING!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHAT PART OF THAT DON'T YOU GET??????????????

This forum is a place where ATB users can come and find info about ATB products and vendors.

It doesn't help that people keep egging you on either..... HINT HINT........

Go somewhere else. Find an audience that cares. You are wasting your time here. Please move on dude.

mrgreenthumb

08/11/2008, 02:07 PM

You are right, I can't argue with stupidity.

cabbage2003

08/15/2008, 12:22 PM

Originally posted</a> by unclefrosby [/i]
Somethings should be left to the pros.

your absolutely correct! :mixed:

black_majik

08/27/2008, 10:11 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13122900#post13122900 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kris4647
I'm not at all wanting to get into this raging argument but it occurs to me that our hobby is rife with questionable environmental decisions.

Would my fish live longer in the ocean, methinks yes. Even without regard to the size of what we keep it occurs to me at least that we are guilty.

To all the pundits here...

Where'd you get your liverock?
Were all your corals propagated?
Where's the line where we can stop debating sharks and call our hobby good for the environment et al?

Tough one IMO. Won't get solved with name calling either.

Very small .02

Actually most fish have a better chance in the aquarium due to the lack of predation. Also to the contrary if it wasn't for corals making it into our homes there wouldn't be too much support for reefs. The shark is a careless and embarrassing decision made by a store owner. The issue isn't as much as the fact that he has the sharks, but more that he is someone who needs to set an example for the customers. When your looked upon for an example and you make horrible decisions that affect the view of this hobby. Most people have no clue a blacktip reef shark is red listed, but someone who is in charge of a store and they make this horrible decision should. Its a disgrace and a shame that these things happen. To further it this man is backed up by a person who didn't even know the issue of 15 clowns of different species in tank and also believes tank size reflects ones caliber as a reef keeper it is a perfect example of the crowd this horrible decisions attract. My very small .02

D to the P

08/28/2008, 12:04 AM

I was told the arguments are still going on here. This is ATB's thread and they should be moved to a more appropriate area of discussion.
I invite all who would want to come to the thread that I started in honor of Aquatic Showroom.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1460207

I do not want people to be harassed in the thread. No name calling, no personal attacks. Just discussion. I'm willing to listen to people who see no problem in the tank. Please stop by if you want to discuss the owner's decision. Either move your soap boxes from this thread to the one I started, or just stop talking about it all together.

Thanks

raen

08/28/2008, 08:14 AM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13096949#post13096949 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by unclefrosby
One more thing I think that a counter boy at a LFS in pobunk whatever the hell town your from in the middle of nowhere wouldnt generally know a lot about keeping black tips from his own personal knowledge, maybe when you post a pic of you marine biology doctrate from Amishville University I will then listen to what you think.

Mr hide behind my friends thumb with your knowledge of picking up the squid dropings for feeding such animals like black tips at your local aquarium and obviously not stating what reputable LFS that you worked at or co-owned to compete with a store like this. If you knew anything about keeping up a LFS you would know appearance and wow factor is what keeps people coming in the store which is probably why you either dont work their any more or have created a name for yourself. We take procautions out here in the bay to protect our investments, we dont buy stuff just to kill it. A 4000 gal tank with a water volume of 9000 gal and a 12 ft. RK2 skimmer seems pretty reasonable with keeping these animals, but you wouldn't understand that becuase thats probably twice the size of the store you worked for.

Black majik you just a plain idiot. 15 clowns in a 700 gal tank leaves you a lot of room to still put more fish in. Most LFS would put 15 clowns in a 20gal, have you ever been into a supplier? Congradulations on 12gal nano cube "reef" that has one mushroom in it, and your 75 gal with one clown and one BTA with an undergravel filter. I am very impressed with your knowledge and thanks from the bottom of my heart for breaking new grounds on the industry with your $300 investment .

Aaron please come by and look at the store before jumping to conclutions.

THERE!!!! it doesnt feel so good to get bashed by someone you dont even know does it??? No disrespect to anyone but I feel a lot of forums on this web site are far under utilized and are more used for the pleasure of people who dont know what they are doing to feel better about themselves. Grow a pair and stop acting like little girls arguing about wether backstreet boys or nsync is a better group.

thanks again

http://www.chaoticconcepts.com/haterade.gift

I esp like the "no disrespect to anyone...." comment. Wow! I guess this hobby take all kinds. No disrespect....huh, Amishwille University, and Idiots. Nice! What is amazing to me is your willingnessto be so nasty to people who are clearly passionate about the care and conservtion of marine life. Shame on anyuone who would be nasty. No one said the tank isn't a beatiful showpeice, clearly it is. "No disrespect........" Wow!

kdblove_99

08/28/2008, 02:29 PM

This isnt locked yet, WOW!

uhuru

08/29/2008, 06:58 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13243409#post13243409 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by D to the P
I was told the arguments are still going on here. This is ATB's thread and they should be moved to a more appropriate area of discussion.
I invite all who would want to come to the thread that I started in honor of Aquatic Showroom.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1460207

I do not want people to be harassed in the thread. No name calling, no personal attacks. Just discussion. I'm willing to listen to people who see no problem in the tank. Please stop by if you want to discuss the owner's decision. Either move your soap boxes from this thread to the one I started, or just stop talking about it all together.

Thanks

Why don't you just call the store owner yourself and talk about it instead of making 2 other threads after this one? This is so overkill.