What wrong with my blue tang?

[roktsintst]

I have had this blue tang for over 2 years. for about hte last year he has looked worse and worse. However, he is very healty, active and fat. he eats well and has a great attitude, but his appearance is very bad. i feed a lot of algea strips which he eats, as well as brine and mysis soaked in garlic, selcon and elos fish viatamins. any advice to help him heal would help. I also posted in the fish disease forum but thought i would post here also.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a119/JNye/Ryan/P1040924.jpg

[sufunk]

HOLY SCHNIKES!!!:eek2: That looks horrible!!! How long has he looked even remotely that bad??? Thats about as bad as ive seen and the tang still be alive!

First off, what else is in the tank? He DEFINITELY looks like he's been getting the snot beat out of him!

He also has some serious HLLE and doesn't look like he eats well. I dont know what to suggest feeding since you say you are feeding basically what i do, lots of algae and PE mysis soaked in garlic, selcon and zoecon.

What are your water parameters? Something has to be out of whack for him to look like that if he eats the way you say. Ammonia or nitrates have got to be a problem and something is definitely picking on him.

[roktsintst]

haha, i know he looks bad but he has been this way for a long time. he is fat and eats well. what is hlle? waterparameters are all good. i have a perfect powder blue and regal angel that look great so i cant see it being a water quality issue. if anything, the powder blue is beating on him. i also have a yellow tang, a blond naso as well as some anthias and a 6line.

[sufunk]

HLLE is head and lateral line disease and is usually caused (at least they think so) by bad water quality or bad nutrition.

I would say the powder blue is almost definitely the culprit. I'm not one to do that sort of thing but i'm surprised people havent started flaming you for the way your keeping him. Like i said, i dont think ive ever seen a worse pic of a hippo that was living.

You HAVE to remove one of them ASAP! I'm no tree hugger but that thing is being tortured daily! That's a pretty horrible life that hippo is living by the look of him.

p.s.- i wouldnt be giving too many "haha"s about his appearence. It may be just a fish but that thing is DEFINITELY suffering;)

[roktsintst]

Huh. well anyone cane "Flame" all they want, doesn't bother me much. the fish has looked this way for quite a while and still "seems" very happy in the tank. he has no trouble swimming or getting along with his tankmates that i see while observing the tank. I am no tree hugger either and am completly against cruelty to animals. However i do not feel that the fish is being "mistreated"!
Now onto fixing the problem. Does anyone have any recommendations to treat hlle. this would be the first step i would like to take to try to improve the fishes condition. if after this, his condition does not improve, i will work on getting him out and finding him a new home. this will be a last resort as he has been with me the longest of any of my fish.
p.s.-this fish swims freely all day long withougt being chased around or harrassed. he dosn't not hide scared all day long hoping not to be tortured. if this were the case i would most definitly remove him immediatly!
Any recommendations will be helpful!

[sufunk]

Well, i dont see how that could be the case seeing how bad his fins are shredded and how many wounds he has on his body. Something is definitely beating him up. There is no way that fish is "happy" i assure you!

The best way to prevent or help cure HLLE is having good water parameters and feeding them good food and lots of algae. You are already doing that so i dont know what else could be causing such horrible HLLE. The only other thing would be the stress from how bad it is being picked on:confused:

[agreeive?fish]

My guess is when you are not watching some one is beating the life out of the poor hippo tang...

[AquaReeferMan]

Wow... I dont even know where to begin.

This is a good article one HLLE, I think you should read it.
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-06/sp/index.php

IMO that is not a happy or healthy tang. Its also kind of ignorant of you to only now begin trying to fix the problem. Im not saying it was your fault but you could have looked for advice sooner.

[roktsintst]

i ordered some vitachem yesterday to see if it would improve his condition. his condition has gotten progressivly worse over time which is why i am asking for ideas. if there is not medication i can give the fish, i suppose i will see if the vitachem has a positive effect on the fishes condition. if this does not help i could try to move the fish to the sump, but i think that would just stress the fish out even more. now im not saying the fish looks bad, but he is always out swimming and is not scared or timid to any other fish in the tank.

[Zaita]

Man. Poor fish :( I'd never let my Hippo get even remotely close to that.

I would be feeding 1/2 to a whole sheet of Nori a day and ensuring the Hippo gets ALOT of that. Mine is only 7" and will polish off 1/2 a sheet of Nori with no issues when she is hungry. I also feed daily enriched brine and enriched spirulina.

But I'd be tempted to put her in the sump for a month or 2 to see how she heals.

[roktsintst]

i feed nearly a whole sheet a day and he eats quite a bit of it. If the vitachem doesn't help i will try to catch him and move him to the sump...

[BrianD]

You have overstocked your tank with absolutely no consideration of how the various fish will interact. As one might expect, this fish is suffering for those horrid stocking choices. Anything we tell you to keep this fish alive will only prolong its suffering.

How sad.

[BrianD]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13009792#post13009792 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by roktsintst
i ordered some vitachem yesterday to see if it would improve his condition. his condition has gotten progressivly worse over time which is why i am asking for ideas. if there is not medication i can give the fish, i suppose i will see if the vitachem has a positive effect on the fishes condition. if this does not help i could try to move the fish to the sump, but i think that would just stress the fish out even more. now im not saying the fish looks bad, but he is always out swimming and is not scared or timid to any other fish in the tank.

Do you recommend vitamins for someone who got the snot beat out of them in a bar fight? You are in a serious case of denial.

[sean48183]

I would say in this situation that your powder blue is at work here especially since your powder blue and other tangs are fine. Usually it's pretty obvious that one fish is pounding on another and you say you don't see much of that. Have you tested your water recently. I be curious where you check out in nitrates, ph, alk and possibly ammonia. If it isn't any of these then your powder blue is on the sneak attack and my not do it when you are in the room or there is activity in the room. May be more concerned with you or feeding and when your not around shazaam, pow and kaboom. Powder blues IMO should always be the only tang in the tank or you are messing with problems.

[jthao]

my suggestion is to take her out and treat her..... and also maybe when she's out she can heal from her beatings.

[agreeive?fish]

if you dont want the "hassel" of taking the poor tang from your tank to let it heal..send the poor fish to me and ill give it its own 175g tank for its healing period..i have a 175 thats empty of fish at the moment just hankering for a fish

[Spooky208]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13009207#post13009207 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by roktsintst
Huh. well anyone cane "Flame" all they want, doesn't bother me much. the fish has looked this way for quite a while and still "seems" very happy in the tank. he has no trouble swimming or getting along with his tankmates that i see while observing the tank. I am no tree hugger either and am completly against cruelty to animals. However i do not feel that the fish is being "mistreated"!
Now onto fixing the problem. Does anyone have any recommendations to treat hlle. this would be the first step i would like to take to try to improve the fishes condition. if after this, his condition does not improve, i will work on getting him out and finding him a new home. this will be a last resort as he has been with me the longest of any of my fish.
p.s.-this fish swims freely all day long withougt being chased around or harrassed. he dosn't not hide scared all day long hoping not to be tortured. if this were the case i would most definitly remove him immediatly!
Any recommendations will be helpful!

This doesn't bother you much. Your hippo is a living creature. You would be in the hospital if you were in he's condition. I suggest you send it to the guy with the 175 so he can have a year to heal for the year that you've neglected him!

[sufunk]

It really is pretty sad to see such a beautiful fish so mutilated:(

Even sadder you could think that that fish is "very happy":(

[jmicky41]

To my eyes, I see a long term captive blue tang with a very advanced case of HLLE - not aggression.

[roktsintst]

ok, i agree that fish are living creatures and deserve to have happy healty lives. i am not and will not ever argue that. i do realize that the fish does not look good and now after asking realize that the fish has hlle. upon furthur inspection of other fish it appears that the yellow tang and regal angel have a slight case of hlle around their head. im not certain this is from the powder blue. i appreciate all advice given and i am an advocate of the theory that everyone has a right to their own opinion. my statement about "flaming" doesn't bother me i still stand by. you can say what ever you want. you can call me cruel or whatever and i dont' really care. however i do care about the life of my fish. i tried different things for a long time to try to treat the fish and nothing worked so i posted this thread.
I only am looking for advice on how to help the fish.
Now that i see some hlle on other fish, i wonder what it could be. i have read the article link and it has some great stuff.
I have a stray voltage probe i would like to install but the package said not to put it on a power strip or extention cord. i can not get it in my tank if it is connected into the wall. will it be ok if it is connected to an extention cord?
I tested my water again
ph ~8
temp 81 within 1 degree
alk 8
nitrate 10
I am having an issue with my ro unit and i ahve new filters on a ups truck right now.
I don't see these levels as poor.
I would appreciate any helpful advice as i do not want the hlle to progess any farther than it already has ( which i definitly regret)

[Spooky208]

You should try to keep your tank a little cooler also. If you can't afford a chiller install some fans in your canopy to keep your tank cool from the lights. HLLE I believe has a lot to do with nutrition and of course water quality. Fish are like any other living thing. The more stressed they are the more vitamins and nutrients they exert. I don't agree that mysis with garlic is considered a regular healthy diet. You try squid, nutri flakes, clams. And make sure he is getting enough Nori.

[roktsintst]

i do have a chiller already. i feed more than just mysis and i do keep nori in the tank nearly all day! i also feed 3 types of flakes as well as formula 2 and brine shirmp. Please keep the idea's comming!

[jbrownacu]

Broccoli is supposed to be great in helping with HLLE. Go to the store and buy some frozen and then pull some out daily and feed. Boil some water, blanch it for 20 seconds to help with any pesticides as well as making it a little easier for digestion. Continue with the nori as well as soaking any food in garlic and vitamins.

Also, you should really consider pulling that fish out and putting it in your sump or a QT. If no fish are beating on it, you might even need to treat it in a hospital tank for something like fin rot. It doesn't look like fin rot, but there has got to be a reason the fish looks like that. It's not because of HLLE.

Any other questions, feel free to ask. Alot of people are coming off harsh, but it's just because they care about the hobby. Let's get this fish back to where it needs to be so it can enjoy the rest of it's long years in your tank! :)
Josh

[mutualbill]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13011367#post13011367 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Spooky208
You should try to keep your tank a little cooler also. If you can't afford a chiller install some fans in your canopy to keep your tank cool from the lights. HLLE I believe has a lot to do with nutrition and of course water quality. Fish are like any other living thing. The more stressed they are the more vitamins and nutrients they exert. I don't agree that mysis with garlic is considered a regular healthy diet. You try squid, nutri flakes, clams. And make sure he is getting enough Nori.

Please don't buy into the myth that your tank needs to be cooler than 81 degrees!!! That has absolutely nothing to do with your tang looking the way he does. I have a 6 inch blue tang that is fat, happy, and healthy and my avg summertime SPS/LPS tank temp is 83! He is also the boss of my tank, no one beats up on him.

[roktsintst]

thanks for the reply's guys. i will definitly try the brocolli today! i spent quite awhile last night observing the tank. the tank is a pennensulla style that separates my two living rooms, so no matter where i am, i can watch the tank. as i fed last night, all the fish eat everything (also quite a bit of food). then i watched the fish'es behavior from a distance. the powder blue showed ZERO aggression towards the other fish. the blue swam right next to the PB and there was no confrontation. i also watched for a while after the lights went out. if anyone is the aggressor it is the yellow tang which has a bit of hlle forming also. i really think that there is an issue causing the hlle other than aggression. i have a hard time thinking it is my water quality. i have a tank full of very colorful sps that grow very well. also i have a 57 watt uv on my tank as well as ozone. my orp is around 300 to 320.
Anyother suggestions or thoughts?

[sean48183]

Have you noticed any scratching on the rocks. maybe wearing down his body on the rocks from some kind of parasite. Keep mixing your food up with all kinds of stuff. I like emerald entree because it has alot of greens in it.

[roktsintst]

hey sean, there is no scratching at all. i spend hours literally everyday looking at the tank and i do not see any scratching. i tried brocolli today and they devoured it! i also got a grounding probe in today so hopefully this helps!

[GoSUV]

From the picture, it seems the Hippo is suffering more than just HLLE. As the name implies, HLLE only affects the area behind the head and the lateral line. The fins are torn on this fish and there's got to be more than one factor affecting his health.

[sufunk]

Imo, he is definitely being attacked by one of the other tangs, most likely the powder blue. The side of his body looks like a pincushion:( Those wounds have nothing to do with HLLE, imo.

Apparently, the op refuses to accept that and is just going the vitamin and grounding probe route????

[Sk8r]

I agree: it looks like wounds caused by another tang. It may be happening when they go to rest, a dispute over sleeping-spot. If it were just the fins I'd start looking for a crab, but my bet is there's some nighttime-push-and-shove going on and he's getting the worst of it.

[Macimage]

Why don't you put him in your sump? His current condition is pretty bad as you know and he needs a respite from whatever is tearing up his fins and body.

Joyce

[ricde]

Are you running ozone on this tank?

[roktsintst]

yes i am running ozone.

[jbrownacu]

Also, make sure your food is spirulina enriched. Emerald Entree is one of my favorites! It's great for your herbivores too!

Put that guy in your sump and see what happens with his condition. Also, when did you notice his condition with his appearance? Was it around the time when you added a new fish?
Josh

[roktsintst]

Thanks for the suggestions. it has been that way for a while now. it started before i added any of hte fish i have now. i have had that blue tang for nearly 3 years i think. i am thinking there is also something else going on becuase i am noticing some hlle on my yellow tang and my regal angel. Could ozone affect the fish like this?

[ricde]

Could ozone affect the fish like this?

I was just throwing this out. If your ORP is only at 300 I doubt ozone poisoning is causing this. Also you stated no other fish were affected. I was trying to google info on a fish being burned by ozone but I couldn't find any pics as bad as your tang.

How are you introducing the ozone into your tank?

[roktsintst]

through the skimmer. and i have two other fish that have signs of hlle which is why i think there may be some other cause

[DSP]

Do you use carbon?
Do you find that you often release very fine carbon dust into the tank when you change it?

I have battled the exact same problem for about six years. Not as severe, but exactly the same:

No aggression in the tank, all other fish are great, Regal tang eats and behaves great, but has pretty bad HLLE and fin damage.

I have become very convinced that it is related to carbon dust. The condition started for me about five years ago shortly after a carbon accident that left everything black. I have managed to stop the progression and even heal the fish a bit with all of the diets mentioned, but if I am not extremely careful with carbon use I find it start to progress again.

[roktsintst]

very interesting... i do run carbon in a filter bag, which i place in another filter sock. but even when i change the sock and i rinse the carbon bag, dust is still released... i will definitly take this into account and be much more careful when i rinse the carbon. do you think that phosban dust would do the same thing???
Also what do you think contributed to the healing of teh fish?

[DSP]

I haven't found GFO to be as dusty after it has been rinsed and I haven't noticed a link to it's use and the appearance of my regal tang.

About a year ago I had to qt all of my fish for ich. During that time my display was without fish for about 10 weeks and I had VERY large leafly macros and valonia growing in my tank. When the fish were returned I watched my regal, naso, achilles, and magnificent foxface eat every spec of algea in just under two days. This was equal to about 6 to 8 sheets of nori. I have since uped the amount of dried seaweed that I feed. 3 or 4 sheets a day.

I have found that very slowly (months) I am able to get new blue skin growing on the regal's face and new skin between the spines by keeping a higher temp of 82F, feeding the high amount of algea that I just described, and spectrum pellets, lots of PE mysis and smaller mysis, formula 1, and Pro Salt Pro V. I do soak one of the feedings a day in the usual stuff.

I wish I could say what makes the difference, but I can't. I have found that if I back off on feeding the new skin stops growing and if I release carbon dust into the system it quickly gets worse.

[DSP]

I have also found that the skin between the spines on his fins grow back in a very predictable pattern. It starts back near the tail and moves forward. I don't know what that means, but it is something that I have noticed. The yellow in the tail always seems to be ragged though.

[roktsintst]

Thanks dsp. Great info

[Fizhstiks]

That does not look like the result of aggression at all to me, my blue tang had a terrible case of hlle (worse than this one) that i could not seem to reverse no matter what i did...

pic (please no flaming, i tried just about everything i could think of to help this fish):

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b129/Fizhstiks/hlleagain.jpg

[roktsintst]

wow that is worse but mine had a lot of missing fins. i have done a number of things. my ozone isn't working like i thought. i got the fish out and he is in the sump like most advised, but i have a few questions. he just hides by the filter sock all day and night. i put some food by him but he doen't eat nearly what he used to. he looks to have a tiny fin regeneration but his hlle doesn't look any better. it has been a week now. i also am using "fish solution" which claims to heal hlle and i think it is helping with the other fish. should i be doing anything else to the blue tang in the sump or just leave him there? and for how long?

Hey fish, what ended up happening to your blue tang?

[Chibils]

I think he's just stressed out from his move. And while I could see those as being bite marks, it looks more like severe hlle to me. Or a parasite.

I wonder if the three other tangs and regal angel combined mean he's not getting enough greens. If it's affecting them all, I'd say the foliage may not be scaling up to that many fish properly. And I have heard of multiple cases of hlle linked to carbon.

[taz13777]

this looks like fin rot to me

[sufunk]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13134111#post13134111 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Fizhstiks
That does not look like the result of aggression at all to me, my blue tang had a terrible case of hlle (worse than this one) that i could not seem to reverse no matter what i did...

pic (please no flaming, i tried just about everything i could think of to help this fish):

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b129/Fizhstiks/hlleagain.jpg

You guys are in serious denial! As bad as fizhstiks tang looks, notice it's fins aren't shredded, LIKE YOURS IS, and his body doesnt look like another tangs caudal spine is using it as a pincushion, LIKE YOURS DOES!:rolleyes:

You cant just leave him in the sump. The sump is WAY to small to house a tang for any length of time. You are just prolonging this tangs suffering by leaving him in the sump until he looks a little better so you can shove him right back in the tank to get the snot beat out of him.

You need to address the problem and it aint broccoli, vitamins, etc... All your other fish are fine and this tang eats very well so you say so there is no way this is a feeding/water quality issue. The problem is one of your other tangs is beating him to death, literally!

Until you resolve that, your hippo is either gonna live in the sump or get beat to death in your display;)

[roktsintst]

Hey sufunk read the Dang thread then. I HAVE TWO OTHER FISH WITH SOME HLLE. i didn't think it was a good idea to put him in the sump myself but i am trying the suggestions and THEY ARE WORKING SOME!

[sufunk]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13141600#post13141600 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by roktsintst
Hey sufunk read the Dang thread then. I HAVE TWO OTHER FISH WITH SOME HLLE. i didn't think it was a good idea to put him in the sump myself but i am trying the suggestions and THEY ARE WORKING SOME!

Sadly i have!:(

Actually, you started the thread by saying most of your fish were "perfect" and didnt mention any problems whatsoever with any others. After some flaming and imo as a way of justifying your stance, you said that upon inspection you can see some "slight" hlle on 2 other fish. "Slight" hlle that you never noticed until just now and the HORRIFIC problems your hippo has are 2 VERY different things;) You really think that there is a problem so bad with water ,grounding probes, vitamins,etc. that your hippo looks THAT bad but somehow hasnt affected your "perfect" powder blue???????

You can say whatever you want to justify your position but your 100% wrong, imo. All those holes on the side of his body look alot more like caudal spine inflicted injuries than any hlle injuries i have seen. That and the fact that none of your other fish are even a hundreth as bad as the hippo should tell you it isnt a problem vitamins,grounding probes, etc. will solve.

I have a weird feeling that in the week he has been in the sump, NOT GETTING BEAT UP BY ONE OF YOUR OTHER TANGS, all those puncture wounds on his side have gotten alot better havent they?

[roktsintst]

Actually i was suprised to find that they are the same. if anything he has some fin regeneration!

[sufunk]

Look, i'm not trying to be a jerk or just flame you . Honestly, i just wanna help you and imo, that fish is getting beat up. I just dont see how some of those injuries arent from getting beat up, especially when your other fish have little or no problems. Especially since he always eats good and your water is good.

Once a month about, my lieutenant and orange shoulder will fight and the next day, 1 or both of them will have maybe 1-2 wounds that look exactly like what yours has on the side. Hey i could be wrong but imo, he's gotta be seperated from whatever fish he's having a problem with or he's gonna look the same once he goes back in the display.

[roktsintst]

I appreciate your comments and i am sorry for getting a little frustrated. i do see what you are saying and i have always worried more about my coral rather than my fish. i am just beginning to research fish diseases now which i should have done years ago. i think it is my yellow tang that is the aggressor however and not the powder blue. i spend hours a day watching the tank and if anyone is the aggressor it is the yellow. i had them in a 90 which was the first mistake and the blue tang was getting beat up by the powder then. once i moved the fish to the 210 i put hte yellow in first and now he is the dominant one. i think i am going to take the yellow back to the store and but the blue back in the display because i just dont' like him in the sump. he "seemed" a lot happier in the display.

Anyway, i also see what you mean about the "puncture wounds" in his side and i do think now that the hlle is a stress thing more than a feeding water quality thing....

[DSP]

Definitely don’t keep the fish in the sump. Keep it in as natural an environment as you can. Keeping it away from the other tangs may help, and yes there may be some aggression. IME some of these conditions can happen with no aggression.

When my hippo tang developed similar symptoms his only tankmates were lots of various gobies and a foxface, there was no aggression in the tank. It started with the pits in the face, moved to loss of color and/or skin on the face, and then the fins started becoming very ragged or went missing in some places. The scars on the side I have not seen.

[SDguy]

Back in the 90's, I used to see many fish with severe HLLE, mostly in FO tanks, often medicated to an inch of their lives. Blue tangs were notorious for the condition. It is quite possible for a blue tang to lose flesh/color, and have "melting" fins to the point of almost no tissue, with ZERO aggression from other fish. The pictures in this thread are EXACTLY as I remember what I am describing....the "webbed" look to the remaining tissue at the front of the dorsal fin and the split/separating/fraying tail tips are classic, IME.

The condition, however, does not happen over night.

On a side note, I'm not sure the melting fins and HLLE are one and the same, but they always seemed to accompany one another....

[Fizhstiks]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13141459#post13141459 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sufunk
You guys are in serious denial! As bad as fizhstiks tang looks, notice it's fins aren't shredded, LIKE YOURS IS, and his body doesnt look like another tangs caudal spine is using it as a pincushion, LIKE YOURS DOES!:rolleyes:

Actually if you look at my picture closely, youll notice my tang was missing parts of his dorsal fin and his anal fin in back near the tail fin...

[SDguy]

OK, here is what I was talking about....

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-06/sp/index.php

[roktsintst]

Thanks for the replys guys. i think i'll get him back inteh display asap.

[roktsintst]

Well i just pulled him out and he looks horrible. much worse and believe me that is possible. now he looks to be on the way out when before he was beat up but was doing ok.

Well see if he pulls through...

[DSP]

It is good that it is back in the tank. It is a shame that so many insisted that it is not HLLE. Severe HLLE in hippo tangs seems to always be accompanied by wasting away of the fins, though it takes a long time to progress to that point.

I hope your tang makes it.

My tang’s healing has stopped recently. I’ve been without PE mysis for a few weeks and I haven’t been using garlic. Still lots of algae and vitamins. I picked up some more mysis today to experiment with.

[roktsintst]

he is out swimming around now and some of his color is already starting to come back!

[DSP]

Good to hear.

Be very patient. I've been trying to figure this HLLE thing out for years. For my hippo tang the healing happens VERY slowly. Months...Years...not weeks. It is not like typical fin damage from a fight or a scrape that heals up in a few days.

How have your other tangs responded to the hippo's return? I would be a little worried that now he might actually start to get picked on.

[roktsintst]

there is a little puffing by the others but nothing major. i think i am still gonna get rid of my yellow as he is the biggest aggressor in the tank...

[chrisstie]

The best advice I could give you is in terms of diet. We have this huge and relatively old Sailfin tang at my LFS that was a HLLE rescue. While it seems that there is more than one cause, changing her diet upon rescuing seemed to nearly reverse all the damage, however she has some pretty brutal scars left over.

First off it seems you have a combination of herbivores and omnivores in the tank. This can make feeding time a little difficult. I would stop wasting money on brine shrimp. I relate it to giving a growing child candy. It tastes great, they'll always eat it, but in the end there's not much nutrition there at all. Even enriched, it will only really serve fish that should be having meat in their diet.

Your blue tang is a herbivore, most of them are, but there are some species who do need a bit of meat in their diet. Your tang will eat it but probably pass most of it right through. Feeding mysis is great for your angel but again, will go right through the tang.

I would continue to feed your nori (make sure its LFS bought or if from an asian grocer completely plain (unsalted, unseasoned etc). I would also stock up on Formula 2. I would go for the frozen variety. It's not as convenient but for your tank and your fish its a bit healthier. Frozen foods tend to release less phosphates into a tank as well if you strain them.

Make sure your tang is eating this and enrich with garlic/selcon, and here's the biggie

FEED VEGGIES FIRST!

It's a great rule to make sure all of your fish get their veggies! If you put a piece of nori and a piece of mysis in, i bet any fish, even an herbivore would go for the smelly shrimp first! Feeding veggies first ensures proper nutrition and its usually a little easier to monitor who eats what and how much.

Make sure your tangs are full up with their veg before moving onto the meat for your angel and any other possible fish you may have in there.

This was done with the tang that was rescued at my LFS and has served as a wonderful living tool to educate hobbyists on proper nutrition.

I don't mean to sound like I'm lecturing but I know how easy it is to toss in some flakes and assume all is well, but getting a good frozen food brand for veg with some garlic for immune boosting can be a big help!

Other than that I'd say to definitely check for stray voltage but don't count on it being a cure all, I would think it would affect your fish possibly faster and maybe all fish semi-equally.

The other important thing to know is that diet wont fix your fish overnight, it will take loving care patience and time and constant checking on his health. While people have flamed you for making bad choices I recommend doing some serious soul searching about your stock choice. Maybe you have a friend or local club or even LFS that could babysit one of the other tangsfor a few weeks. Just as an experiment- with one fish out you could see how the hippo does.

If diet doesn't improve, QT doesn't improve, stray voltage isn't found the only other thing I could think of would be some kind of predator, maybe a mantis shrimp duking it out? Hear any popping noises in the tank? I've wracked my brain all I can tonight but am following this to see how your fish does, always concerned, and always want to help if i can.

[roktsintst]

thanks for the tips, i'll keep posted on the situation...

[jmicky41]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13143355#post13143355 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SDguy
Back in the 90's, I used to see many fish with severe HLLE, mostly in FO tanks, often medicated to an inch of their lives. Blue tangs were notorious for the condition. It is quite possible for a blue tang to lose flesh/color, and have "melting" fins to the point of almost no tissue, with ZERO aggression from other fish. The pictures in this thread are EXACTLY as I remember what I am describing....the "webbed" look to the remaining tissue at the front of the dorsal fin and the split/separating/fraying tail tips are classic, IME.

The condition, however, does not happen over night.

On a side note, I'm not sure the melting fins and HLLE are one and the same, but they always seemed to accompany one another....

This is right on the money. Just because a fish has ragged fins, it doesn't mean it has fin rot. Just because a fish has marks on it's body doesn't mean it is getting beat up.

[DSP]

Hippo tangs are not herbivores. People who have studied the stomach contents of this fish in the wild find that they are omnivorous. I believe this is especially true as they get larger and venture out more. They do eat a good amount of algae, probably more then we generally provide in our tanks, but they eat more plankton and benthic inverts.

IME the diet needs to be diverse.

[sufunk]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13143355#post13143355 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SDguy
Back in the 90's, I used to see many fish with severe HLLE, mostly in FO tanks, often medicated to an inch of their lives. Blue tangs were notorious for the condition. It is quite possible for a blue tang to lose flesh/color, and have "melting" fins to the point of almost no tissue, with ZERO aggression from other fish. The pictures in this thread are EXACTLY as I remember what I am describing....the "webbed" look to the remaining tissue at the front of the dorsal fin and the split/separating/fraying tail tips are classic, IME.

The condition, however, does not happen over night.

On a side note, I'm not sure the melting fins and HLLE are one and the same, but they always seemed to accompany one another....

Well, i guess different people see different things. I dont see any pics in that link where a tang has all the little puncture wounds on the side like the op's tang does. Those marks are EXACTLY like what my orange shoulder gets when he fights with my lieutenant, exactly.

I've never seen any hlle pics where it caused little puncture wounds on the side like you can clearly see in the 1st pic of this thread. Obviously, this fish has some serious hlle but i still stand by that he is getting beat up and those marks on his side are caudal fin injuries not the result of hlle.

[SDguy]

My point with that link was to show the variety of physical symptoms HLLE can encompass.

I am merely taking what the OP writes at face value. If he says the fish are not attacking each other, then I will move on and try to think of other problems/reasons....

[DSP]

I too am asuming that Ryan has seen no aggression. I have also experienced and seen similar marks on hippos that are in tanks that I know have no aggressive tankmates, so I am more willing to believe what he says.

The marks I have experienced I would describe as pits. They are exactly the same as the pits that first develop on the face when hlle starts. These pits start to show up all over the fishes body. Fortunately my current hippo does not have these, but I have seen them before on tangs who were only living with gobies.

[DSP]

without enhanced feeding and excellent water quality, these pits tend to gradually turn into big agreas of flaked off skin IME.

Looking at the picture again I do think it could be injuries from another tang, but I have seen those exact pits on hippos that are not with other tangs. I know that it is possible that they (the pits on his side) are not related to fights between tangs.

[KurtsReef]

Is there room in the 65 sump you have listed for the hippo? Let him rest in there and see if his condition improves, at least you would know for sure its not being nipped at.

[iceemn360]

hmm At least he had the ability to post here in effort to address the issue

[GustavoAZ]

Sounds kinda silly and I don't think it's been mentioned but have you tried reaquascaping? I find this tends to throw everyone off in the tank and can help ease agression since everyones territory is now in question. I'm not saying this is a case of agression but it's something to try.

Roktsintst, you say you have had the fish for over a year? If thats the case then I'm sure you know best whats agressive in your tank. Like most of us you probably watch your fish several hours a day. I can tell you just about all the behavior of my fish and who is agressive.

I think the hippo got that way from a diet issue, stress from tankmates may be playing a part in it's over all health but diet looks to be the key issue.

I feed about three times a day. I feed pellets, frozen and nori. I feed a real diverse diet of just about anything I can think of from home made foods to garlic soaked nori of different kinds. I'm not sure what your feeding schedule is or what your feeding but try buying some more diverse foods and feed often, take note of what they all like. I don't buy into any tang being just a herbivore, everything I have eats meat. Some more than others.

The tang is eating which is half the battle.

I have a clown tang that I have raised from about three inches to about 6-8 now, from what I have read they are pretty difficult. I have never had a problem with this fish at all. I have kept other tangs however that didn't fare so well and were said to be easier to care for.

When all is said and done I do think you should look into lightening the load in your tank.

Good luck.