Highest nitrate for fish only?

[TheApprentice]

Hello, I have a reef only tank and a fish only tank.

I keep the reef's nitrates at 5ppm or so.

What do you think about the fish only? How high can the nitrates get before they start to be a problem?

[prime311]

Some recommend 20 or less, although I think you'd probably be fine at 40 or less and I've seen people run tanks as high as 80.

[danorth]

The closer to the ocean the better.....but I've always had nitrate issues for the simple reason of not having a fuge and high fish load. I don't believe I've lost a fish due to nitrates......disease from not qting new fish, but not nitrate that I'm aware of. If it were the case my fish would all be dead now.

[FishyMel]

For angelfish if definitely needs to be below 20 ppm or they develope hole in the head.

[danorth]

I don't agree with that. My fish would look like swiss cheese if that were the case. I believe that HLLE comes from poor water quality, other than nitrate alone and levels much higher than just 20, along with insufficient nutrition - especially vitamin C. Also it is popular belief that stray voltage can cause it.

[jhentr]

Mines ran for a period of time in the 60 to 80 range for about a year or so before I got it down (Fishes and softies only, no LPS or SPS). What surprised me was that my coral banded shrimp and cleaner shrimp made it through this ordeal and is both big as ever. Of course I don't condone keeping it this high. Once I started vacuuming my substrate, it has hovered at 20.

[FishyMel]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13013165#post13013165 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by danorth
I don't agree with that. My fish would look like swiss cheese if that were the case. I believe that HLLE comes from poor water quality, other than nitrate alone and levels much higher than just 20, along with insufficient nutrition - especially vitamin C. Also it is popular belief that stray voltage can cause it.

My emp got hlle when my nitrates were at 40. I did one water change (got it down to 20) and the hole healed in 3 days.

[reefergeorge]

What are you people feeding?
I have a large bio load (porcupine puffer, and trigger), and feed the others 3 times a day. For the first year my nitrates were around 15, but have been 0 since.
10% weekly wc with 30 gallon fuge.

I would start thinking something is wrong above 20. JMO

[Jerry W]

Most fish are fairly tolerant of elevated nitrate levels. Mine hover around 20 but have gone as high as 80 for a period of time. I keep sensitive fish like butterflies and angels and there were never any problems. Running a fuge will certainly help, as will heavy skimming, having a good CUC and not overfeeding, although I think the tendency is for FOWLR keepers to feed heavily or at least more heavy than a reef. I feed a lot of meaty foods and some greens and pellets, but also do 20% water changes every couple weeks. My tank is also stocked lightly, which I believe helps.

[danorth]

My tank is always full of fish, without a fuge and when I was doing 75% water changes once a week......yes once a week, I could get the nitrates down to 10, and then by the next week they were 40+ again. I feed NLS pellets and shrimp.

[ccampbell57]

I have a fully packed 180 and my nitrates are at 0. I have never had a nitrate issue. I run a larger refugium and have over loaded the sump and tank with Live rock as well as Chaeto.

[danorth]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13015570#post13015570 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ccampbell57
I have a fully packed 180 and my nitrates are at 0. I have never had a nitrate issue. I run a larger refugium and have over loaded the sump and tank with Live rock as well as Chaeto.

Can you share a pic of your sump area? It'll give me an idea for my new setup. Right now I have about a 12 gallon area for macroalgae.....but if that needs to change I can.

[Wolverine]

It depends on the fish, but I've seen a few FO tanks that have had nitrates consistently in the 400+ range for a few years without any (apparent) ill effects.

[RBU1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13014860#post13014860 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by FishyMel
My emp got hlle when my nitrates were at 40. I did one water change (got it down to 20) and the hole healed in 3 days.

This by far has to be the funniest thing I have read in some time.......To say your angel fish lateral line from 40ppm of nitrates is silly. Who told you that? Or are you just assuming that your fish had it, you got your nitrates down and it went away?

I have a 300 Gallon tank with an assortment of livestock. Angels, puffer, eels and tangs. I also have a bunch of mushrooms, leathers and XENIA!!!!! My nitrates were in the 80 range. I reduced my feeding and now they stay around 40. Never have I had Lateral Line. I think if you read about it you will understand it a little better.

[FishyMel]

He didn't have lateral line only a small hole near his nostril. I assumed it to be hlle. Maybe it was something else that caused it, like he wasn't getting his NLS pellets since I was on vacation, only some krill and mysis every other day. It could of been something completely different. His lateral line was never messed up and he has great colors. What do you think it was?
Here he is a couple days back, visibly very healthy.
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j172/gibbiceps/IMG_5616_2-1-1.jpg

[RBU1]

Lateral Line, can be cause by several things. Nitrates at really high levels is a sign of poor water quality. That is one way. Stray voltage in the tank from a pump or heater or something could be another way. Assuming the other issues are not a problem. I would concentrate on diet if I were you. In my opinion pellets don't cut it. You need a good quality food something you can make yourself from a bunch of different things from the seafood store. You need to include seaweed, viatamins and varying kinds of meaty food. What I do is blend up all my ingredients and put them in the snack size ziploc bags. Lay them flat in the freezer then just break off pieces and feed. Don't over do it that will cause your nitrates to go up. Feed your homemade food like 2 times a week. The best thing to do is reasearch the diet in the wild and try as hard is it may be to duplicate it in the tank.

[1ucky]

I believe 20 or less; my 180 FOWLR has been running with "0" Nitrates since I added live rock and Mangroves to my sump for the last year and a half now.

[FishyMel]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13018473#post13018473 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RBU1
Lateral Line, can be cause by several things. Nitrates at really high levels is a sign of poor water quality. That is one way. Stray voltage in the tank from a pump or heater or something could be another way. Assuming the other issues are not a problem. I would concentrate on diet if I were you. In my opinion pellets don't cut it. You need a good quality food something you can make yourself from a bunch of different things from the seafood store. You need to include seaweed, viatamins and varying kinds of meaty food. What I do is blend up all my ingredients and put them in the snack size ziploc bags. Lay them flat in the freezer then just break off pieces and feed. Don't over do it that will cause your nitrates to go up. Feed your homemade food like 2 times a week. The best thing to do is reasearch the diet in the wild and try as hard is it may be to duplicate it in the tank.


I do feed her caulerpa and nori once a week. She didn't get that when I was gone either. She also gets fromula one cubes. I don't trust the seafood in my area, it is all loaded with preservatives. She also gets silversides. What else can I do for the healthiest animal?


Was is it just a combination of water change, pellets, macroalgae (returning to her typical ritual) that healed her?

[aquaman67]

Robert Fenner's book "The Conscientious Marine Aquarist" on page 81 says:

"There is no clear dividing line over which nitrate is absolutely harmful; conditioned fishes and invertebrates have been cultured in water of several hundred - even thousand - ppm. All that can be said without fear of contradiction is that lower numbers are better."

[30reef]

I have kept FO tanks with Nitrates in the hundreds with no problems, for years at a time. With a FO tank, it's not about Nitrates, but rather nutrition. But if possible, I would agree with most that the lower the better. I wouldn't get up out of a comfortable chair just to do a WC though.