success with trates in the 15 range

[reefer96]

How many have had or are having success keeping SPS tanks
with nitrates in the 10-15 range?

my trates are in this range, and nearly everything i have seems to be doing great from green slimers, ora cali tort, larry jackson acro, pink milles, blue milles, tri-color, purple tip acro and some others.

i have an orange digi that im having no luck with and my blue stag has lost color and doesnt have very good PE.

i turkey baste my rocks /sand once a week and do wekly water changes of 15% (siphon sump each time) i generally feed once a day.

[mpoletti]

Yep. You are fine with trates in that range. I try to keep mine between 10-20. The 0 nitrate thing is great and all, but I like the ease of keeping my corals in that target range.

[sps1-2-b]

I've read that keeping trates at 0 isn't the best thing for sps due to lack of nutrients. And of course too much trates is bad also. 10-15 range seems to be ok for most people. Mine is around 5 and I feed 5 times a day. In doing so I found my sps to color up more and not look so pale.

[PUGroyale]

x3

...you get to 80 though look out :eek2:

[The Saltman]

I was in the 10-15 range until I put in a fuge. The fuge took me to zero.

[GSMguy]

i keep mine in the 10-20ppm range, actually i prefer them in this range.

[reefnetworth]

mine never get above 5ppm. :thumbsup:

[reefer96]

its good to see theres a few others having success with trates in that range.

[EnderG60]

Mine are 1-3, but thats after the nitrate reactor. Feeding and fishload are still up there, and the nitrates used to be 40-60.

Only real difference I noticed was a few of my corals that used to be red/pink are going back to that color now.

My blue milli's are still bright green though. if the new bulb doesnt bring them back, I will add more sulphur and shoot for 0 nitrates and see what that does.

[sailfintang]

Mine are in the 20 ppm range but I do not like what it has done to some of my coral. I am gonna try and go ULNS and see if adding some aa's and other supps makes them more virbrant then they are now. I have a few that have that brown look and others that still show great color and PE. We will see what 0 nitrates does to them for a while.

[shelburn61]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13034818#post13034818 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by GSMguy
i keep mine in the 10-20ppm range, actually i prefer them in this range.

... and that's probably why you have greens like this?
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1364718&perpage=25&pagenumber=40

[ReefWreak]

lol how can I increase my nitrates? I skim but hardly ever do water changes, and only have a TINY ball of cheato in a small box up in my display. I feed a cube of mysis a day and a 1/2 dollar size piece of nori. I started dosing vodka:sugar:vinegar recently to get my PO4 down, but I think I'm nitrate limited. I do have some red slime though, which has gotten worse since, so I'm guessing that's where my nitrate has been. I test for nitrates with API and Hagen test kits and never have any. Colors are good on most of the corals though. Lighting plays a bigger impact on the depth or lack of depth of the color in my corals I've noticed.

I have not had a trace of nitrates in probably 2 years or so. I wish I had a little, but the API test shows none. I hope it's not my sand bed slowly storing nutrients away to release at the least convenient time....

[shelburn61]

I feed 3x as much as you now and still have 0 NO3 by Lamotte. I'm still working on "feeding" the coral: making N available without raising PO4 levels. PO4 can inhibit calcification at very low levels, but I think detectable NO3 may not be a bad thing...

C dosing, macro/refugiums, and GFO are great tools to keep dissolved NO3 and PO4 down, but can also strip the water too much IMO.

[SCIFI_3D_zoo]

Are there a lot of examples out there of TOTM or other sps-rich successful tanks out there with 10-20 ppm Nitrates? From what I remember those guys are always quoting 0.

[9501gle]

Well you guys got me wondering what my trates were so I just tested with salifert kit and got just a trace of color. I have 4 chromis, 5 tangs, 3 clowns and a cleaner wrass along with 40 or so snails, 2 shrimp, 2 sand sifting stars, 10 or so assorted crabs, 2 fighting conchs, and a brittle star in my 240. It is a mixed reef tank and my trates are always very low. I feed Rods food 2 or 3 times every day, I've even increased to 4 to 5 times and never saw trates go above 2. Wish someone would figure out what range best suits sps.

[GSMguy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13039555#post13039555 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by shelburn61
... and that's probably why you have greens like this?
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1364718&perpage=25&pagenumber=40

it is part of the reason.

i would not get those with true 0ppm nitrates but they could be gotten with less than that there are more things that i think affect coloration.

[Julian H]

SPS can feed directly of trates, according to borneman, and more importantly, micro algae that feed pods that feed coralz feed of trates. so 0 trates=bad thing.

[MammothReefer]

eh.. I don't think nitrates are a good thing feeding your corals is a good thing nitrates are a by product of that.. If you can keep your corals fed properly and keep your nitrates < 5 ppm then your golden.. My tank had high nitrates 160ppm now down to the 20ppm range, and my corals are still iffy (some are ok though).. it was pretty obvious the lower my nitrates got the healthier my corals got, and the better colours I started to get.. I think I lot of people are getting the presence of food source for you corals, and the presence of nitrates confused.. I highly doubt if you take sps and toss them in a tank with an old dsb that leaking nitrates your going to be happy with the results.

[SCIFI_3D_zoo]

From what I keep reading the question for me is what are ok nitrates for SPS? THis 0.2ppm - 0.6 ppm. Still really low stuff. Or 5-10ppm. I'll have to look over the TOTM articles but I think they always tout 0.0 trates.

[SunnyX]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13091349#post13091349 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SCIFI_3D_zoo
From what I keep reading the question for me is what are ok nitrates for SPS? THis 0.2ppm - 0.6 ppm. Still really low stuff. Or 5-10ppm. I'll have to look over the TOTM articles but I think they always tout 0.0 trates.

I know that in my TOTM article I said 0 for nitrates but that was just a guess. I have never tested for nitrates so i think they were actually higher.

I test very little for anything, perhaps only once a year. I observe my tank and if I dont like what i see then I test and troubleshoot.

[SCIFI_3D_zoo]

SunnyX TOTM (http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-07/totm/index.php) . Here's your link. So... you fabricated your #'s. :mad: What a scam. Your tank is actually really NICE. Why don't you just do a NITRATE test for us and tell us what your # actually is. THAT would be interesting to know.

[Zedar]

If you want your nitrates above 0 you can dose potassium nitrate.

You can buy it on ebay.

Ive dosed it in the past when my corals got too pastel.

But i agree with mammoth, feed the corals. Protein is better then N03.
My N03 is 0, or more correctly, below the level my testkit can read. So if I dont feed the corals they will get pale.

[SCIFI_3D_zoo]

Everybody has diff. tanks too. I have a DSB, and my FUGE is only about 7 gal on a 90 gal tank. That's all I have room for. Not much I can do about it. My fuge has a DSB too, cheato, rubble. I could maybe stick more rock in my sump. Trates are about 10-15. I do 20% monthly water changes. I'm gonna bump that up to 30%. I'd like to stick with this than mess with weekly/biweekly changes.

[GSMguy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13091494#post13091494 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SCIFI_3D_zoo
SunnyX TOTM (http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-07/totm/index.php) . Here's your link. So... you fabricated your #'s. :mad: What a scam. Your tank is actually really NICE. Why don't you just do a NITRATE test for us and tell us what your # actually is. THAT would be interesting to know.

he took that tank down.

[SCIFI_3D_zoo]

Another interesting note.. in his now defunct tank... his sump was only 5% of his mdt volume. AND he says he only had a "small" fuge in that. Pretty small. But we still don't know for sure what his nitrates were but his tank was very healthy. Only other thing that could have helped was a good Deltec skimmer.

[SunnyX]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13091494#post13091494 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SCIFI_3D_zoo
SunnyX TOTM (http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-07/totm/index.php) . Here's your link. So... you fabricated your #'s. :mad: What a scam. Your tank is actually really NICE. Why don't you just do a NITRATE test for us and tell us what your # actually is. THAT would be interesting to know.

Yea, the scam of the century. I'm a hack. :rolleye1:

[MammothReefer]

wow. really...a lot of people on RC look totm for inspiration, and information, they take those stats as rules on how to keep a similar setup..that really makes you wonder how many other tank of the months just put down commonly perceived "ideal" stats. my whole world is shattered. >_<

[GSMguy]

his huge corals took the nitrates up fast enough for the system and an 851 is a great skimmer.

he used prodibio also for the last year that would help.

[GSMguy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13092718#post13092718 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SunnyX
Yea, the scam of the century. I'm a hack. :rolleye1:


hahahahahahahahahahahahaha no you have the touch. ;) your nitrates very well could have been zero but i doubt it, your colors were too rocking for it to be zero.

[SunnyX]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13092663#post13092663 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SCIFI_3D_zoo
Another interesting note.. in his now defunct tank... his sump was only 5% of his mdt volume. AND he says he only had a "small" fuge in that. Pretty small. But we still don't know for sure what his nitrates were but his tank was very healthy. Only other thing that could have helped was a good Deltec skimmer.

I guess it must have been the skimmer. :p
I did test for Phosphates which were 0 so I assumed the nitrates were at 0 or very low.


After the TOTM the tank kept growing and looking good. Here is a pic of the tank a few months before take down:

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p157/SunnyX_photo/DSC_0349.jpg

[SunnyX]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13092737#post13092737 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MammothReefer
wow. really...a lot of people on RC look totm for inspiration, and information, they take those stats as rules on how to keep a similar setup..that really makes you wonder how many other tank of the months just put down commonly perceived "ideal" stats. my whole world is shattered. >_<

Well when phosphates are 0 and the tank looks great one would assume that nitrates were 0 or very low.

Next time around I will simply put"not tested for" under nitrates.

Sorry for the confusion. :D

[MammothReefer]

lol i love this new rumor going around that corals consume nitrates.. the internet is the ultimate broken telephone.

[SunnyX]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13092841#post13092841 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MammothReefer
lol i love this new rumor going around that corals consume nitrates.. the internet is the ultimate broken telephone.

I got your back Nick :D


"Original Paper
Nitrate Uptake by Reef Corals
Prof. Dr. Ludwig Franzisket *
Hawaii Institute of Marine Biology, University of Hawaii, Kaneohe, Hawaii

*Correspondence to Ludwig Franzisket, Landesmuseum für Naturkunde, Himmelreichallee 50, 44 Münster Germany
Hawaii Institute of Marine Biology Contribution No. 425. Mit Unterstützung der Deutschen Forschungsgemeinschaft. I am indebted to Dr. STEPHEN V. SMITH for working with me in the translation to English.

Abstract
In specimens of the hermatypic coral species Fungia scutaria and Montipora verrucosa and in the alga Ulva lactuca, nitrate uptake was measured in light and dark with a flow-through apparatus. The nitrate uptake was measurable in high-nitrate bay water of Kaneohe Bay and also in low-nitrate open ocean water. Nitrate consumption rates by the corals and the alga did not differ from light to dark.
Neither the coral nor the alga showed measurable immediate nitrate uptake in open ocean water of low nitrate concentration when they had been held previously in the high-nitrate bay water. In low-nitrate open ocean water the uptake per unit time increases when the flow of the water increases.
The uptake of nitrate by reef corals even from low concentrations indicates nonspecific nutrient sources for reef corals."

Source: http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/114045377/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0

[GSMguy]

they consume nitrogen

[SCIFI_3D_zoo]

WOw. Really kool tank. I"m taking some pics soon of my tank with some new Powerbrite LED's (460n actinic ones) on my tank. It is UNBELIEVABLE the effect and color-popping they create. I couldn't imagine what your tank would look like with them. Did you replace your tank or you are tank-less right now?

I think... maybe TOTM'ers are misleading us so we won't have as nice a tank as them. Jealous bastards.

[Zedar]

The consume ammonium preferably.

And there is no substitute PROTEIN!!

[MammothReefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13092901#post13092901 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SunnyX
I got your back Nick :D


"Original Paper
Nitrate Uptake by Reef Corals
Prof. Dr. Ludwig Franzisket *
Hawaii Institute of Marine Biology, University of Hawaii, Kaneohe, Hawaii

*Correspondence to Ludwig Franzisket, Landesmuseum für Naturkunde, Himmelreichallee 50, 44 Münster Germany
Hawaii Institute of Marine Biology Contribution No. 425. Mit Unterstützung der Deutschen Forschungsgemeinschaft. I am indebted to Dr. STEPHEN V. SMITH for working with me in the translation to English.

Abstract
In specimens of the hermatypic coral species Fungia scutaria and Montipora verrucosa and in the alga Ulva lactuca, nitrate uptake was measured in light and dark with a flow-through apparatus. The nitrate uptake was measurable in high-nitrate bay water of Kaneohe Bay and also in low-nitrate open ocean water. Nitrate consumption rates by the corals and the alga did not differ from light to dark.
Neither the coral nor the alga showed measurable immediate nitrate uptake in open ocean water of low nitrate concentration when they had been held previously in the high-nitrate bay water. In low-nitrate open ocean water the uptake per unit time increases when the flow of the water increases.
The uptake of nitrate by reef corals even from low concentrations indicates nonspecific nutrient sources for reef corals."

Source: http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/114045377/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0

eh, so your saying if stick an acro in a bb tank w/water with n03 saturation, don't feed, add any fish inverts ect, don't do water changes just keep my parameters in check.. not only is that acro going to thrive but it will purge the water of n03..... basically what your saying is if i want to reduce my n03 I should just cram more corals in my tank... .... .... .... .....

oh and on the totm thing.. you broke my heart...*sniff* *sniff*. i don't know up from down right from left anymore..my whole world has changed.

[SCIFI_3D_zoo]

Are there any products out there that reduce Nitrates?... that are feasible (not really expensive, needs lots of room). I'm not sure but I think AMQUEL isn't doing anything. I want to start stocking more SPS and I got about 10-15 ppm. There's a lot of other products out there too like SeaChem PURIGEN that I have not seen any testing done on.

I also read that clams (maybe dersea more so?) can help reduce nitrates. An expensive thing to test.

I already have a DSB with fine & medium live sand mixed. I have a DSB in my small fuge w/cheato (7 gal on 90gal tank). Pretty good amount of LR. I got rid of all socks/filters/pads. I have a good skimmer.

Looks like AZ-NO3 has a good track record. But it can lower pH. BUT then again the very 2nd post here was from a guy with a tank full of SPS and 10-15 ppm Nitrates. :rolleyes:

[SCIFI_3D_zoo]

I noticed it got a little quiet in my subscribed threads. I thought.. everybody is probably reading the new RK magazine. I should have too b/c it talks specifically about NITRATES and Vodka.