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View Full Version : Could a Volitan and a Humu trigger get along...


psimitry
07/27/2008, 09:56 PM
...in a 75 gallon tank (for a while) assuming I pick them up relatively the same size (small, and not including the fins of the lion)?

I will eventually move them to a larger FO tank, but until my lease is up (next august), I have this tank sitting here with nothing but rock in it. I already have a sizable reef, so I don't really want another reef.

Jerry W
07/27/2008, 10:11 PM
It might work. The lion is going to grow fast, so depending on how long it'll take to set up a new tank, you may want to re-think this. A 4 inch lion will be a ten inch fish in a year or so. In a 75, it's going to be cramped. The trigger can be fairly docile as a juvie but the aggression can kick in as it matures. Why not simply get the trigger and grow it out in the 75 for a year. When the bigger tank comes, add a good sized lion and introduce the trigger.

psimitry
07/27/2008, 10:14 PM
I could do that. I probably WILL do that.

So in a FOWLR, how does one manage cleaner crew? I would think that pretty much any snail or other invert that cleans would get munched by a Trigger.

Edit: Is it not true then that Lionfish need very little room? I was always under the impression (with tanks that I've seen at public aquariums and whatnot) that lionfish are amost like the Beta of saltwater tanks in that they need very little room to swim around in.

sean48183
07/27/2008, 10:27 PM
Clean up crew for me is 2 big hermits that move sand around like its there job. Wait it is their job.

Jerry W
07/28/2008, 12:29 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13035694#post13035694 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by psimitry
I could do that. I probably WILL do that.

So in a FOWLR, how does one manage cleaner crew? I would think that pretty much any snail or other invert that cleans would get munched by a Trigger.

Edit: Is it not true then that Lionfish need very little room? I was always under the impression (with tanks that I've seen at public aquariums and whatnot) that lionfish are amost like the Beta of saltwater tanks in that they need very little room to swim around in.

Lionfish are not particularly active, and are actually pretty sedentary fish, but...certain species grow large and they do move about when hunting prey (in our case getting food we drop in the tank.) A volitans can get to be the size of a small football. Add to that the large pectoral fins and this is a fish that needs room to move about. I've seen some absolutely huge and gorgeous volitans in large (180+) systems. Good sized tanks give them an opportunity to maneuver around unfettered, and also allow them to attain their full size. Crowding them can lead to health problems, and potential aggression from other fish (particularly a trigger). It's sad that the author of a very popular and well respected reference gives the "minimum" tank size for one of these fish as a 55 gallon. A full grow P. volitans would hardly be able to turn around in such a small tank.
As far as a clean up crew. Large hermits, as mentioned, would work. Triggers normall go after crabs but I've seen tanks with some golf ball sized hermits that can hold their own. You might end up replenishing the crab populace every so often. With a good flow, a good skimmer and frequent water changes, you should be able to keep up on your water parameters.

psimitry
07/28/2008, 01:49 AM
So, no reef hermits then :)

How about large turbo snails?

psimitry
07/28/2008, 01:56 AM
Keeping with the year long timetable, how about a antennata lionfish? I may just be better off with the single trigger, but I think it would be really neat to have the two in there.

psimitry
07/28/2008, 02:10 AM
Crap.

From WetWebMedia: Rhinecanthus triggerfish are especially bad tankmates for lionfish, as they are even more prone than other triggers to pick at the lions spines.

:(

saltyESQ
07/28/2008, 03:05 AM
I have heard that humu's like to kill lion fish for sport. They will nip at their fins until nothing is left and the lionfish will die due to stress.

psimitry
07/28/2008, 10:08 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13036389#post13036389 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by saltyESQ
I have heard that humu's like to kill lion fish for sport. They will nip at their fins until nothing is left and the lionfish will die due to stress.

Hence my quote from WWM.

OK - so this is now an options thread.

WHAT, if anything can get along with a Picasso Trigger in the tank? Interestingly enough, it seems (again according to WWM), that a Picasso trigger will most likely get extremely territorial as it ages, and will most likely become aggressive to everything (although not as aggressive as a clown trigger). It almost gives the impression that in an ideal situation, you would have a 120+ gallon tank with nothing but the one trigger in it. But then Fenner mentions that it would most likely get bored. A rock and a hard place me thinks!

OR - WHAT would potentially get along with a antennata lionfish? I kinda had my eye on the snowflake morey for that situation. Perhaps maybe a harlequin tusk as well?

Jerry W
07/28/2008, 10:17 AM
The eel and tusk would make a nice substitute, IMO. Humu triggers are great fish. Not ALL turn nasty but it's a common enough trait as to make the potential buyer wary. Have you considered a blue throat trigger? Stays a bit smaller and is much more social. Unlikely it would pick at the lion.

sacremon
07/28/2008, 10:20 AM
Lions generally get along with anything too big for them to eat. It is the other side of the coin, what species will pick on the lion, that is the issue. Pretty much all triggers and puffers are out, as are larger angels.

Antennata are the smallest of the Pterois species that you are likely to see, growing to about 8". You could have the snowflake, harlequin tusk, pretty much any variety of rabbitfish. Most tangs are likely to be fine with them, as their body shape doesn't dispose them to being inhaled (and for the tang police, I am speaking in theory, so calm down about a tang in a 75g tank).

edit: I've often thought about having a tank with lion(s) and a Calloplesiops altivelis (a.k.a. Marine Beta/Comet) but that would be a tank full of fish that like to hide while the lights are on.

psimitry
07/28/2008, 10:44 AM
Yeah, the lighting is a thing I'll have to do some thought on. I happen to have a new-in-box 39W 48" Normal-Output T5 fixture that I was planning on using for this, so I think (read: hope) that that will be subdued lighting enough to encourage these fish to come out while keeping them illuminated enough to properly see.

saltyESQ
07/28/2008, 11:43 AM
I have a 5" humu who gets along with all fish. Fenner was correct about humu's getting bored, at one point he was the only fish I had in my 210g and he just slept all day in the rocks.

Look at my fish list:

angels: regal, flagfin, singapore, blue
Humu
golden puffer
hawaiian spotted puffer
stars and stripes puffer
pearlscale butterfly
pair of gold stripe maroons clowns

my only problems are with the angels.

chevster
07/28/2008, 03:04 PM
u know how they say undulated triggers, are very agressive, it is so called the " msot agressive fish in the hobby"..

well my friend decided to buy a moorish idol, and that didnt end so well...
added a perc, worse, its tail was biten off...

well when he decided to buy a small, baby volitan.... the undulated never went near it because i guess all fish are just scared of the lionfish species.. maybe bcuz of their sharp looking fins...

for my upcoming FOWLR.. im planing on putting a lionfish, with 2 angels, and 1 pair of maroon clowns.. .... i really dont want to skip on the lionfish.. they are just mone of the most majestic fish in the hobby...

psimitry
07/28/2008, 04:23 PM
So what I'm gathering here is that a potential stocking list of a Antennata lionfish, a harlequin tusk and a snowflake moray should be pretty much OK in a 75G tank. If so, this would be pretty cool as I'd love to be able to use my upcoming tank upgrade to make a bigger reef.

prison police
07/29/2008, 11:00 AM
I have a med to large lion and a huma huma along with a niger and a snowflake in my 75g and there is no aggressive behavior that i have seen. So depending on size, I see you being able to keep them together then moving both to the new upgrade later. PP

prime311
07/29/2008, 03:34 PM
Thats always the problem with Lions. It takes away too many potential tankmates. They aren't truly 'aggressive' fish. I'd rather try to do a fuzzy lion in a reef then a Volitans in a predator.

psimitry
07/29/2008, 06:27 PM
See that's interesting. I think the trigger takes away too many tankmates. I think you have a much MUCH bigger set of options with a lion.

prime311
07/29/2008, 07:33 PM
Volitans take out all smaller tankmates and many Angels, Puffers, and Trigger.

Triggers take out Lions and some smaller tankmates and inverts(but who's counting inverts in a fowlr anyway). Assuming you aren't getting one of the nastiest triggers(Queen, Titan, Clown, Undulated). Triggers are definitely more of a danger as they get very large to many inhabitants, although the more docile ones like Crosshatch and Sargassum are rarely a problem.

prison police
07/29/2008, 07:56 PM
here is my lion and huma

http://i328.photobucket.com/albums/l323/prisonpolice/656894951210_0_BG1.jpg

http://i328.photobucket.com/albums/l323/prisonpolice/856894951210_0_BG1.jpg

CAMDIDDY
07/30/2008, 06:48 PM
I have a volitan and humu together and they are in love with each other.

billsreef
07/30/2008, 07:28 PM
Most of those Humu's are ticking time bombs. When they mature, most of them will become trouble and pick on the lions one day.

tb27272
07/30/2008, 08:13 PM
I have had a niger and huma huma with a large volitan for over two years without any problems. The Volitan resides with smaller fish and hasn't bothered any. If you look at my gallery you can see the my maroon sometimes hosts in the volitan.

prime311
07/30/2008, 10:02 PM
Its not like its never been done. Theres a lot of things you can do, but are risky. Look at Zoom with his Clown Trig in a reef, its a risk and he knows its a risk, and acts accordingly. A humu and Lion are a risk and need to be monitored closely and has a decent chance of going south eventually. Some people get lucky and it never happens, but that doesn't mean its not a risk.

fittiger
07/31/2008, 01:45 PM
What about doing a dwarf zebra lion....they really aren't that much different from a volitans, won't create as much waste and won't feel as cramped in a 75 when full grown.

Stuart60611
08/25/2008, 01:43 PM
Has anyone here experienced any problems between a picasso and an australian tusk. I just added a 3.5 inch picasso and a 4-4.5 inch tusk together in my 125 FOWLR, and the picasso is kind of picking on the tusk. No major aggression, but the picasso keeps nipping at the tusk's tail. Since a lot of posters on this thread house picassos, curious as to your experiences.

anbosu
08/25/2008, 02:24 PM
I have a tank with a lunare wrass, volitan lion, six line soapfish and a snowflake moray eel and they all get along fine. The key with lionfish is to not get something it can fit halfway in its mouth and won't pick on the fins. If you avoid that they are pretty docile and really only show aggression when it is time to eat.