Help me with my paly problem

[LoudProudNPunk]

i had a thread a while back about my most expensive zoanthid purchase to date. Im having trouble finding the thread right now but they were knockout zoanthids. They looked great and healthy for around 3 weeks. Then they started growing great, alot of new heads popped up. I went away for 4 days and came back and their mouth are sticking out and there seems to be tissue loss between the polyps. They are not all the way closed but dont look healthy. They were very pretty zoanthids and everything else in the tank looks great. I tested the water and it was all in normal parameters. other than salinity at .028 which was a bit high, and i think temps might have gone up to around 86 while i was gone. Would this be the cause? i did a water change just incase, but everything seemed normal. Any suggestions or options are very welcome i just want to do everything i can to help the zoanthids survive and flourish. Every other zoa and paly in the tank is open and happy. There are no pests and no pox. But maybe a bit of fungus?? here is a pic.

BEFORE [ the red palys on the right are the ones im talking about, not the NG]
<a href="http://s162.photobucket.com/albums/t257/redrachie/?action=view&current=P1010047-1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t257/redrachie/P1010047-1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>


after [some new heads]
<a href="http://s162.photobucket.com/albums/t257/redrachie/?action=view&current=P1010106.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t257/redrachie/P1010106.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>


please say any info you know that might help me, these were one of my favorite frags.
thanks,
matt

[Peter Eichler]

I do believe that high SG can be problematic with certain zoanthids. I've noticed visible signs of stress and similar reactions in the 1.028 range. Sadly, they may be too far gone at this point :(

[LoudProudNPunk]

i lowered it to 1.025-1.026

think i should lower it more or no?

[Peter Eichler]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13120740#post13120740 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by LoudProudNPunk
i lowered it to 1.025-1.026

think i should lower it more or no?

As long as your readings are correct that's fine.

[MUCHO REEF]

Sorry to hear the bad news, but I think those can be saved my friend. I see no pox, no fungus, no BI, the polyps are not pinched nor collapsing, I see no flaking or breakdown of the cuticle at all. I see skirts which seem irritated and withdrawn, not necessarily retracted. I agree with Peter, you should lowered your SG and do so slowly as it appears that you have done. My concern is this transpiring while you were away.

A temp spike of 86 won't kill a colony but it could cause a reaction. A spike in SG could also cause some polyps to react this way. The key is slowly bringing the system back to where it was before you felt. For the record, it is widely accepted by some that polyps are indestructible simply because they are considered very hardy corals. They can indeed tolerate environmental swings and can adapt to most lighting schemes, but like any other corals in the deep, they have their limits and can perish or experience what you are seeing in your tank.

Were there any other changes made to your system prior to you leaving?

I'm curious if you did a water change just before you left? If so, how long did you aerate and mix before you added your make up to the tank? Undissolved salt can fall onto corals and burn or irritate them. Just throwing as much out there as I can to help is all.

Make sure this frag is not in a dead zone with stagnate water movement.

Run your actinics only for a full day or two and see if there is any change/improvement.

I'd double check all parameters with a reliable test kit. Have a friend also use their kits to check everything, or, take a sample to the LFS.

This is a small frag and if there are no signs of predation, I would NOT dip this frag right now. In this shape, it might further decline with a stressful dip right now.

They don't appear to have been eaten by a fish or invert, no signs of a predator, so I'm incline to believe it is an environmental ( parameter ) issue you are dealing with. Just give it bit more time my friend. Good Luck.


Mucho Reef


PS, check out the link below, I hope it helps.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1154238&highlight=mucho+reef

[LoudProudNPunk]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13124345#post13124345 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MUCHO REEF
Sorry to hear the bad news, but I think those can be saved my friend. I see no pox, no fungus, no BI, the polyps are not pinched nor collapsing, I see no flaking or breakdown of the cuticle at all. I see skirts which seem irritated and withdrawn, not necessarily retracted. I agree with Peter, you should lowered your SG and do so slowly as it appears that you have done. My concern is this transpiring while you were away.

A temp spike of 86 won't kill a colony but it could cause a reaction. A spike in SG could also cause some polyps to react this way. The key is slowly bringing the system back to where it was before you felt. For the record, it is widely accepted by some that polyps are indestructible simply because they are considered very hardy corals. They can indeed tolerate environmental swings and can adapt to most lighting schemes, but like any other corals in the deep, they have their limits and can perish or experience what you are seeing in your tank.

Were there any other changes made to your system prior to you leaving?

I'm curious if you did a water change just before you left? If so, how long did you aerate and mix before you added your make up to the tank? Undissolved salt can fall onto corals and burn or irritate them. Just throwing as much out there as I can to help is all.

Make sure this frag is not in a dead zone with stagnate water movement.

Run your actinics only for a full day or two and see if there is any change/improvement.

I'd double check all parameters with a reliable test kit. Have a friend also use their kits to check everything, or, take a sample to the LFS.

This is a small frag and if there are no signs of predation, I would NOT dip this frag right now. In this shape, it might further decline with a stressful dip right now.

They don't appear to have been eaten by a fish or invert, no signs of a predator, so I'm incline to believe it is an environmental ( parameter ) issue you are dealing with. Just give it bit more time my friend. Good Luck.


Mucho Reef


PS, check out the link below, I hope it helps.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1154238&highlight=mucho+reef

thanks so much for the advice mucho, and i agree with you that it did seem to be environmental. Another reason to suspect that is that my tank has been zoa pest/fungus/pox free for a while now. But the sad fact is after posting this thread i again had to go away on the second leg of my bands tour. I had no choice but to leave the tank with a nonreefer.....

long story short my auto topoff only replaces 4-5 gallons before needing refilling and it was not refilled, so the salinity rose again as i was away. I was really bummed when i came home to an empty frag disc. I really feel that if i was there i could have brought them back around. They had been doing great in the tank. luckily they were the only thing that was effected.

good thinking on the water change salt but i use NSW in all my changes.

thanks.

Oh well... i guess i should keep a better eye on my salinity, im just confused on how it got that high in the first place.

[Peter Eichler]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13165590#post13165590 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by LoudProudNPunk
thanks so much for the advice mucho, and i agree with you that it did seem to be environmental. Another reason to suspect that is that my tank has been zoa pest/fungus/pox free for a while now. But the sad fact is after posting this thread i again had to go away on the second leg of my bands tour. I had no choice but to leave the tank with a nonreefer.....

long story short my auto topoff only replaces 4-5 gallons before needing refilling and it was not refilled, so the salinity rose again as i was away. I was really bummed when i came home to an empty frag disc. I really feel that if i was there i could have brought them back around. They had been doing great in the tank. luckily they were the only thing that was effected.

good thinking on the water change salt but i use NSW in all my changes.

thanks.

Oh well... i guess i should keep a better eye on my salinity, im just confused on how it got that high in the first place.

I wouldn't beat yourself up about it. Like I said, I think they were as good as dead after you posted the first photo. Zoanthids can be quite resilient, however when I've seen frags do that they are not long for this world. I've seen it happen to potions of a colony as well and while other polyps in the colony appear to be stressed the ones that looks like your did always die from what I've seen. The couple times it has happened to me has been preceeded by a big growth spurt, which could actually be a response to stress as well.

[Pufferpunk]

I'm curious--when is the last time you had your refactometer calibrated?

[Peter Eichler]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13175823#post13175823 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Pufferpunk
I'm curious--when is the last time you had your refactometer calibrated?

Just from the measurements he's giving I'm gonna guess he's using a hydrometer.

[LoudProudNPunk]

yes i was using a hydrometer, i never had my calibrated. So for this test i used my GF's which is nicer and semi new.

How do you calibrate a hydrometer? im curious.

About the palys, it was a tough loss but ive picked up some new frags for cheap and my tank is looking the best it has since the crash, so all is well.

[Pufferpunk]

1st you have to get a calibrated refractometer & then compare that to your hydrometer. If your's is high or low, you need to subtract that from the reading. Maybe it's time to get a refractometer & calibration solution, as they need to be calibrated occasionally.

[LoudProudNPunk]

will do. How much do they cost? are they available at most LFS.