clowns and elegance coral

[kitsapdan]

will my clowns kill my elegance coral if they host in it

[elegance coral]

Yes they can. Not a good idea in MHO.

[littlefish72]

It can kill it but will it? That is a different question. If they wallow in it enough to make it contract then you should separate them. At work we have clowns that host in an elegance with no harm to the coral FWIW

[kitsapdan]

it looks ok but there are two clowns. the coral is 4x the size of both clowns together.

[adtravels]

Depends on the health and size of the clowns and the elegance, large healthy elegance and two small clowns no problem.
large clown small newly introduced elegance most likely a rough ride for the elegance. My friend (bangkokmatt) has had a huge elegance with two occelaris clowns for over two years and they have been fine.

[kitsapdan]

cool thanks

[elegance coral]

I have allowed this relationship countless times in the past. My opinion on the subject is different than most. Right now I have 15 clownfish and 9 elegance corals. The only time I will allow a clownfish in the same tank with one of my elegance corals is when the clown has it's natural host. I have NEVER seen a positive effect of clownfish on elegance corals. Healthy, well established elegance corals can survive a great deal of abuse, but why should they have to? Clownfish cause elegance corals to withdraw, which restricts their ability to capture the light needed for nourishment. This also increases the odds of the clowns causing damage when pressing the delicate polyp tissue down on the sharp skeletal structure. There is a reason this relationship never evolved in nature, despite the fact that elegance corals can be found in the same environment as many host anemone species. Even in those cases where the elegance dwarfs the clowns, the elegance corals expansion and overall health will improve after the clowns are removed.

This is a pic of one of the times I allowed this relationship. It's a pic of an adult pair of Ocellaris in an elegance that is MANY times their size. Judging from the pic, it would seem as though all is fine. However, within weeks of the removal of the clowns the corals expansion exploded and it began spawning on a regular basis.
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/2387/elegance012editedcc3.jpg

I have had clowns rip the tentacles off of elegance corals, or simply beat them to death. After seeing the results of this relationship many times over the years, I personally will never allow it to take place in my systems again.

[BangkokMatt]

As Adtravels said, I have had clowns hosting my elegance for over 2 years now. The Elegance was established when the clowns were added. It took the Elegance a couple of weeks to fully get used to the hosting and has done very well ever since.
http://i316.photobucket.com/albums/mm357/Bangkokmatt/Clownshosting.jpg

[adtravels]

put that in your pipe and smoke it.

[elegance coral]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13182814#post13182814 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by adtravels
put that in your pipe and smoke it.

The photo proves my point. It is a beautiful coral, but where is the oral disk? You can't see it because the coral is withdrawn, like I explained in my earlier post. In a well expanded Elegance the oral disk will be clearly visible. Because the coral is withdrawn, it can not receive as much light as it normally would. Like I explained in my earlier post. How do corals cope with this problem? :confused: They allow their zooxanthellae population to grow. This gives them a darker brown color, like you see in the pic. They also decrease their GFP (green photosynthetic pigments) like you see in the pic. If the clowns were removed, over the next few weeks, the corals expansion would increase, the zooxanthellae population would decrease, and much of its GFP would return.

This is a huge hobby, and there is a GREAT deal of information, I have yet to learn. However, there is one small area that I feel I know very well. That is Elegance corals. I have spent about the past 18 years studying these animals, about 2 years of experiments with the Elegance coral problem, and I have raised their larvae to the metamorphosis stage. (which I can't seem to get past) I probably know these corals better than I know my own wife.

Soooo....... Put that in you pipe and smoke it.

[traveller7]

Bangkomatt,

I would fall in the camp that your very nice, large, and established Elegance merely tolerates unnaturally hosting the clowns. I must say that is one nice looking specimen though, congrats :>)

Given the poor survival numbers with Elegance in the US, I would not risk such a combination either. May work, may not, but it is not necessary, so why experiment?

Cheers all.

[BangkokMatt]

In response I must say that my elegance is browner in the pic than it is to the eye (for reference - the large coral above it is a bright red monti digi, well prostrata to be precise, which also looks brown in the pic). As for it tolerating the clowns, well...I have not studied this coral at length but my specimen has grown 5x its original size in 2 1/2 years. If someone can post a pic of a healthy captive kept elegance then maybe we can compare. Mine looks pretty damn healthy to me at least.

[BangkokMatt]

Here is a better representation of it. It is on the left of this FTS. Green with oral disc showing (a little)
http://i316.photobucket.com/albums/mm357/Bangkokmatt/IMG_3000-2.jpg:)

[BangkokMatt]

Or this taken about 12 months a go.
To be fair, it looks as healthy as Elegance Corals avatar
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/114759IMG_2097.jpg

[adtravels]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13183224#post13183224 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by elegance coral
The photo proves my point. It is a beautiful coral, but where is the oral disk? You can't see it because the coral is withdrawn, like I explained in my earlier post. In a well expanded Elegance the oral disk will be clearly visible. Because the coral is withdrawn, it can not receive as much light as it normally would. Like I explained in my earlier post. How do corals cope with this problem? :confused: They allow their zooxanthellae population to grow. This gives them a darker brown color, like you see in the pic. They also decrease their GFP (green photosynthetic pigments) like you see in the pic. If the clowns were removed, over the next few weeks, the corals expansion would increase, the zooxanthellae population would decrease, and much of its GFP would return.

This is a huge hobby, and there is a GREAT deal of information, I have yet to learn. However, there is one small area that I feel I know very well. That is Elegance corals. I have spent about the past 18 years studying these animals, about 2 years of experiments with the Elegance coral problem, and I have raised their larvae to the metamorphosis stage. (which I can't seem to get past) I probably know these corals better than I know my own wife.

Soooo....... Put that in you pipe and smoke it.

Ooooh had your cage rattled have you, the fact your willing to say you know these corals better than your wife means I can tell you wont be backing down on this one. Pull the clowns matt, in fact sticky this thread so no one else makes the mistake, Personally I reckon its worse for the clowns;)
peace

[traveller7]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13183825#post13183825 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by adtravels
....Personally I reckon its worse for the clowns;)
peace I did not want to go there and add to the fray, but you can see that monster elegance ATE one of BankokMatt's clowns and it was replaced with B&W ocellaris or it is one severe melanistic response ;>)

[elegance coral]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13183473#post13183473 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BangkokMatt
In response I must say that my elegance is browner in the pic than it is to the eye (for reference - the large coral above it is a bright red monti digi, well prostrata to be precise, which also looks brown in the pic). As for it tolerating the clowns, well...I have not studied this coral at length but my specimen has grown 5x its original size in 2 1/2 years. If someone can post a pic of a healthy captive kept elegance then maybe we can compare. Mine looks pretty damn healthy to me at least.

As I've said in this thread and over in the LPS forum, you have a beautiful Elegance. I'm not trying to say that it's on the verge of death or anything. These corals can survive a great deal of abuse. Like I stated in my earlier post. Even in the wild, they can be found in very harsh environments for a stony coral, and yet they survive and grow. Your coral may continue as it has for many years to come. All I'm saying is that clowns CAN lead to the death of Elegance corals and clowns WILL have a negative effect on the corals expansion and overall health. I'm not criticizing people that allow this relationship. I have allowed it many times myself.

[adtravels]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13183872#post13183872 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by traveller7
I did not want to go there and add to the fray, but you can see that monster elegance ATE one of BankokMatt's clowns and it was replaced with B&W ocellaris or it is one severe melanistic response ;>)
It was much less interesting suspected fish tb nasty:mad:

[traveller7]

I must be missing something in the translation my friend :(

Either way, hope all is well with you both on the other side of the Pacific.

Cheers.

[BangkokMatt]

The previous clown died from TB (tuberculosis sp). Very nasty.

[traveller7]

Ah TB, bad news :>(

Glad the new addition appears to have paired up. Nice contrast between them as well.

[dc]

My maroon has killed just about everything in my tank. She can't seem to go into the cabbage coral, and the hairy mushrooms are thriving tho. :D