"hunchback" lyretail anthias

[LobsterOfJustice]

Unfortunately, two of my female lyretail anthias do not appear too healthy. I am not sure if these fish came to me this way and I did not notice at first, or if this has developed. In my last tank I kept 1 male with three females and did not notice this. When I moved tanks I lost a few fish and bought a few more, so it is occuring in these newer fish. I have another female lyretail, as well as a male lyretail and 2 female bimacs which all have normal body shape.

Not only is the body shape curved, the fish swims rather oddly, with clamped fins and by wiggling. The body is not usually horizontal in the water column like my other healthier fish. The affected fish will also rest on the bottom in the back of the tank more often.

Has anyone encountered this before? Is this likely something that developed, or I simply didn't notice at first? Is this because of something I am doing wrong? I would like to make sure it doesn't happen to any of my other fish... the effected fish are rather unattractive.

The condition does not seem to be immediately dangerous as the fish have been living like this for at least 3 months (thats when I started thinking - hey, that fish is curved...) probably longer. One of the fish is definitely effected more than the other. I have attached a few pictures:

Notice the exaggerated curve in the beginning of the lateral line:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/LobsterOfJustice/IMG_0829.jpg

In this picture one of the fish can be seen in the lower center (compare to the healthy bimacs):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/LobsterOfJustice/IMG_1337.jpg

One of the fish can be seen in the upper left of this picture:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/LobsterOfJustice/IMG_2513.jpg

[Bax]

FWIW, I am no expert on anthias, but having kept a fish or two (that would be where my wife would roll her eyes and sigh), at first glance it look like the fish are under nourished. But, your other anthias seem well fed, it's been going on for months you say, so I don't think it's aggression from other anthias, (IME targeted fish don't last that long), maybe it's internal parasites. Again, I am not sure what maladies anthias are susceptible to, such as parasitic worms or the like, but just putting it out there.

[LobsterOfJustice]

Internal parasites is possible as I received these fish before I started deworming all incoming fish in a QT. But to me, the body shape doesn't seem to be resulting from a concave stomach, more of a bent spine.

[LobsterOfJustice]

Bump.

I'll take the absence of replies despite 126 views as "nope, haven't seen that before."

[rishma]

I have seen it, eons ago when I ran a LFS. I dont know the cause, but it never ended well for the fish. I realize that is not helpful but I have seen anthias come from the wholesalers with this problem.

[euod]

I have seen this condition in koi and some people have suggested that stray voltage may be the problem.

[buzzbombtom]

x2 on stray voltage.
FWIW i have seen this in african chiclids, but its a condition that they have from birth, kinda a fluke, maybe you started to notice it when they got bigger, and they always had this problem? the chiclids that i saw like this lived long lives maybe this is the same?

[LobsterOfJustice]

Funny that you guys mention stray voltage. I may have had an issue with it the past year or so, since I set up this new tank. Time-wise, it correlates perfectly.

Basically, I have a 30g tank I use to mix new sw and I used a powerhead to mix water in there. This tank is plumbed into my sump with a ball valve in between, so when I open the ball valve the new water drains into the sump. A few months ago I tried to use the powerhead in another application and noticed I was getting shocked. So I guess it's possible that the powerhead in the SW mixing was letting off current, and the current was getting past the ball valve, down the piping, and into my main system.

I never noticed getting shocked (previously, or now) when having my hands in the tank though. I use a grounding probe and all electronics are plugged into GFCI outlets, FWIW.

[LobsterOfJustice]

Here is another picture, compare to the other healthy anthias in the shot (especially compare the lateral line of the male to the female). Notice how the head area seems to be correctly oriented horizontally, but at the "shoulders" the body changes and bends downward.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/LobsterOfJustice/IMG_2537.jpg

You can tilt your head slightly so that the fish is "horizontal" and you will see it is definitely an odd shape.

[poknsnok]

I see this in some poorer stores. poor water quality, nourishment etc. Im sure your husbandry is good. they may have had this condition when you got it.. I vote malnourishment complication

[LobsterOfJustice]

Those of you that have seen it, is it only in female lyretails?

I feed a cube of frozen food per feeding, twice daily. I'd love to be feeding more than this, but my nitrates are hanging around 20 and I'd like to get them lower before feeding more.

[LobsterOfJustice]

I wanted to bump this for more exposure and opinions. The individual with the more severe bend died about a month ago. I still have the other individual. I am about to buy a few more females in the next few months, I would hate for it to happen again.

[chrissreef]

I have a twinspot that's similar... not sure if it's the same or a decompression issue.

when looking from above, he's not straight, more twisted like an "S"... his back half is kinda droopy and doesn't use it too well. He seems a little more "boyant" than everyone else. He was fine for 1-2 months, then in a matter of days this happened. He's been like this for 2 months w/o issue (i guess) =/

[khaosinc]

I can actually second seeing it on African Cichlids. I have a 300 gallon tank of them and very few are the ones I put in that tank originally (if any after 6-7 years). I had always thought it was just a ressive genetic gene brought out due to inbreeding. a couple of the yellow labs have it, though everyone was (in)convieniently hiding when I wandered out to try and get a pic. Never really saw a difference in life expectancy, though that is a overstocked and very aggressive tank.

[stunreefer]

In the first pic it just looks like an emaciated fish, but after you pointed out the lateral line I started thinking otherwise.

As with any species, there's always the occasional "odd-duck"... I think you got the Nemo of Anthias there and you should call him Quasimodo. It could have also been damaged during collection... I had an Arowana for a long time that rammed into the glass pretty hard when he was young and broke its back; It healed but was forever crooked.

I highly doubt its related to stray voltage as I'd most definently expect you to see other fish or corals with issues.

[jana p]

I am trying to figure out why I lost two tangs in a row I had one for two years, then got another and lost it as well.

I am frusturated, because these fish are expensive. I will not be able to purchase another one any time soon.

My tank is balanced. I have a damsel, maroone clown, angel, cardnial, blenny, sally light foot crab, pepermint shrimp, red and white star fish, black brittle starfish. I also have hermit crabs.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to why I lost these fish?

Thank you

Jana

[jana p]

I am trying to figure out why I lost two tangs in a row I had one for two years, then got another and lost it as well.

I am frusturated, because these fish are expensive. I will not be able to purchase another one any time soon.

My tank is balanced. I have a damsel, maroone clown, angel, cardnial, blenny, sally light foot crab, pepermint shrimp, red and white star fish, black brittle starfish. I also have hermit crabs.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to why I lost these fish?

Thank you

Jana

[LobsterOfJustice]

I have a few updates for the situation - unfortunately bad ones.

I sent and recieved the following correspondence form Wet Web Media:

Hunchback Lyretail Anthias ~ 01/07/09
Hello,
(Hiya Mike)
I am having a problem where my female Lyretail anthias are developing a "hunchback" kinked spine.
(Mmm…)
These fish were purchased about a year ago from Live Aquaria.
(A reputable vendor, in my opinion)
I have kept groups of anthias in previous tanks successfully and never saw this problem.
(Neither have I)
When I noticed the problem, the anthias in the tank consisted of 2 female bimacs, 3 female lyretails, and 1 male lyretail. Their tank is a 90g reef. I noticed two of the female lyretails developing the condition - one was definitely worse than the other. The condition slowly progressed for months, until one finally died in the fall. Now the second fish's condition is deteriorating to the point of the first fish I lost - I expect to lose it within weeks. I believe the final female lyretail is also starting to develop the issue. The male and the bimacs are unaffected.
(Thus far… Will keep fingers crossed)
The effected fish are still eating well, but they spend a lot of time resting on the substrate. When they do swim, they swim with clamped fins and by wiggling the body.
(Very bad signs)
The body is not carried horizontally in the water column like it should be. I'm not sure if something happened to these fish before I got them, and it is developing as they grow, or if it is because of something I am doing?
(The condition could indeed be genetic (especially if these fish were collected from the same group in the wild), but perhaps this could also be a bacterial infection causing the curvature or *hunching* of the spine. This is often the case with freshwater fishes, and though I haven’t seen it in marines (that I recall), I suppose it could be so. In fact, I have heard that with freshwater fishes this is sometimes a result of a TB virus infection. The best course here is likely to euthanize this and any other fishes displaying similar symptoms. There are several ways to accomplish this which you can read about here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/euthanasiafaqs.htm . You should probably also consider wearing gloves when capturing/handling these fish)
They get fed a huge variety of foods.
(Vitamin/nutritional deficiencies did also cross my mind)
Until recently I was feeding a cube of frozen food per feeding, twice daily.
(Just a single cube? I would feed more. I would think at least two cubes for the Anthiines you listed, alone. And depending on your overall stocking plan, likely more. You will find that your fishes will be healthier, more colorful, and probably less aggressive, if *well* fed)
Basically I buy every type of frozen food and cycle through them. I use Sally's San Francisco Bay Brand
(SFB) Emerald Entree, SFB Plankton, SFB Spirulina Enriched Brine Shrimp, SFB Marine Cuisine, SFB Mysis, Hikari Bloodworms, Hikari Daphnia, Hikari Krill, Cyclope-eze, Roe (from an Asian grocery), Ocean Nutrition (ON) Prime Reef, ON Formula Two, ON Angel Formula, and ON Special Formula VHP. I have them all in a stack in the freezer and work my way through the pile.
(Very good… And this is an excellent assortment of foods. But do consider feeding *several* at a time)
Recently (about 2 months ago) I also added an automatic feeder feeding an additional 4 times daily with a similar variety of dried foods (mix of various Ocean Nutrition, Spectrum, etc pellets and flakes).
(Ah, excellent… Hopefully these additional offerings are accepted by all…)
This is a mixed reef with a focus on SPS, so water conditions are pretty good. 35ppt, 420 Ca, 9 alk, 20ppm nitrate (been trying to get this lower for a while to no avail).
(Yes… Doesn’t (actually shouldn’t) be zero, but should be less than half this reading for this tank)
There was a time in the past about a year ago, around the time that I got the anthias where the nitrates were much higher, enough to take a toll on some of my stony corals.
(Uh-oh)
Not sure if that could lead to something like this.
(Not directly maybe but the stress on the fishes re, with subsequent depression of their immune systems, may lead to such complaints)
Stray voltage was suggested, but I've tested and the readings are low (also have a grounding probe).
(Hmm, yes… Another possibility here then I think… Consider the possibility the ground-probe only worsens such problems by *completing* a circuit and providing a continuous path for the electrons. In other words, a *current of electricity* as caused/provided by the ground is worse than any *stray voltage*. Have a read here and see what you think: http://avdil.gtri.gatech.edu/RCM/RCM/Aquarium/GroundingProbes.html )
I'm not sure whether this is a disease and could spread, or is environmentally caused, or simply out of my control all together.
(Not out of your control… Just need to determine the cause to come up with the best solution. Right now, considering you do say you show stray voltage in the tank, I would remove the ground probe and see what develops. If the fish continues to worsen then I think you should consider removing and destroying)
I attached some pictures of the fish - notice the exaggerated curve in the beginning of the lateral line.
(Yes, I see this. Definitely something amiss)
Sorry for the long email, thanks for your time.
Mike Meyer
(No problem Mike. I will also ask Bob if he sees this to add his spin on the problem here. Regards, Eric Russell)

So to recap: at this point I had lost one female to the issue and the second was developing. Third female, as well as male, and 2 female bimacs unaffected. I removed the worsening female. I added another female lyretail and a sunburst anthias. Bringing the total anthas count in the tank to 1:2 lyretails, 2 female bimacs, and 1 unknown sunburst. Now, about a months and a half later... both female lyretails are again deteriorating. I notice abnormal swimming, sunken in stomach/odd body shape, and an odd texture around the upper head area.

Voltage has been checked, runs around 7-12 (volts? i dont know). I am thinking this is a bacterial infection. I will try to remove the affected females. But what do I do with my other fish? If they have not shown symptoms for the year that this has been occurring, are they fine? Or should I remove and treat them? Which to remove - the male lyretail, all anthias, all fish? What treatment? I'm worried that if I remove the affected fish and add new fish, the problem will continue happening due to fish that look fine carrying the disease in the tank. But I dont know who could be carrying it.