tank heat variations = death to my angel.

[inachu]

So I was reading up on a couple of threads here and on how tank temp swings from 77 to 84 or 84 to 88.


Mine was pretty much almost constant and would swin only between 86 to 88.

I thought I could introduce some changes to make this a normal event to my fish.

They all survived except for my angel now.

I will never experiment againt while angel fish are present.


I can not guarantee the Angel did die though.......
I did not have time this morning to stick my hand in and move the rock but I stood there for 5 minutes observing this one rock that had a hole in the center and the yellow angel face was there and not moving.

[kzickovich]

if your tank is getting that hot you should try to do something about it. The cheapiest is put a fan blowing over the top of it, that should drop it 2 or 3 deg. I just got done putting all my equipment in my basement it's alot cooller down there in the summer months.

[VacavilleFC3S]

84-88 is way too hot, you need to get some fans on your tank or a chiller, tolerable temperatures are 76-84 anything more than 84-85 and things are just gonna drop dead,

[inachu]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13176376#post13176376 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by VacavilleFC3S
84-88 is way too hot, you need to get some fans on your tank or a chiller, tolerable temperatures are 76-84 anything more than 84-85 and things are just gonna drop dead,


------ SLAP TO THE HEAD.

I thought 88 would be normal as it seems 88 would be perfect tropical heat.... I guess not.

I learn yet again.

[greenbean36191]

88 is a bit warm. The range of temps seen on an average reef throughout the year is about 76-86 with an average about 82.

I wouldn't assume that the heat killed the angelfish though. Animals don't just start dropping dead as soon as they get above their normal temp.

[VacavilleFC3S]

86 isn't horrible but 88 is certain death for most things, the warmer the water is the less oxygen it holds.

[greenbean36191]

This is one of the things I work on, so it annoys me to no end to see this repeated so often as if it's an important thing to consider. Yes, it's true that warmer water holds less oxygen, but that is largely an irrelevant point in the reef keeping hobby. The difference in 02 saturation over the range reefs occur is negligible. The difference in going from 76 to 86 is roughly the same as you would get by lowering the salinity from the high end of the acceptable range to the low end. Still, even at 90 the saturation point is more than 3 times the safe limit for reef fish.

Also, it's not necessarily true that the animals respire more at higher temps as hobbyists are always told.

All reef fish that have been tested (which represent several families) are highly tolerant of hypoxia too, which is a regular occurrence on the reef, and have no problem breathing well below the level a typical reef tank would fall unless there was a power outage.

Except in cases of extreme overstocking, temperature will not create or solve oxygenation issues in an aquarium.

[inachu]

[QUOTE]the warmer the water is the less oxygen it holds.


I did not know that either thanks again.

[tspors]

Maybe Inachu will learn more if people stop responding. Might get the hint to take up another hobby, and stop distroying this one! People Get the Hint>

[inachu]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13176632#post13176632 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tspors
Maybe Inachu will learn more if people stop responding. Might get the hint to take up another hobby, and stop distroying this one! People Get the Hint>


stop cross posting same replies in other threads your point is mute.

[cdness]

The fan idea works really well. I have a fan over my sump and it cools very well. My tank got up to 84 and I thought it was too hot so I turned on the fan. Within 1 hour it had dropped to 78. Now I have the heater on at 80 and the fan constantly running (until I get a controller) and the temp is staying pretty constant.

tspors: Be nice. We have all made mistakes in hobbies that we take up. It is part of the learning process. Yes, this involves living creatures so a screw-up usually means death. Just remember the fish that inexperienced reefers keep are still better off than being at some LFS that doesn't take care of the tank and they all die from disease...

Inachu: Not to defend tspors or anything but I would really recommend doing lots of reading on the forums and the books everyone recommends. No, don't stop the hobby, but do the needed reading to allow you to be successful. This will also reduce the amount of flaming I have seen on some of your threads...

[tspors]

Nothing at all wrong with inexperienced reefers, we all started there. Do a search on this persons posts and you will know what I am talking about. Inexperience vs Ignorance.

[cdness]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13176796#post13176796 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tspors
Nothing at all wrong with inexperienced reefers, we all started there. Do a search on this persons posts and you will know what I am talking about. Inexperience vs Ignorance.

Point noted...Yes there are some stupid and yes some really rediculous questions posted by inachu. but there are also SOME good questions in there as well. He just needs to be taught to do a little research on his own to prevent the bad questions.

Inachu: Reda, Read, Read.... then do more reading until you have a good grasp on what to do.

[WinnipegDragon]

Inachu,

I bet your overstocking had as much to do with the death as the heat did. Have you checked your water parameters lately? Weren't you having an ammonia spike?

[inachu]

I also do not think my heater is very accurate.
I set it at 80 and the LCD temp reads at 88???
T5's really heat things up that much?

I perhaps should set the heater at 75 or buy a new heater.

[Toddrtrex]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13177002#post13177002 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by WinnipegDragon
Inachu,

I bet your overstocking had as much to do with the death as the heat did. Have you checked your water parameters lately? Weren't you having an ammonia spike?

Plus the fact that it was a Rock Beauty angel, which have terrible track records.

[inachu]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13177002#post13177002 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by WinnipegDragon
Inachu,

I bet your overstocking had as much to do with the death as the heat did. Have you checked your water parameters lately? Weren't you having an ammonia spike?


Nope no spike.

[Sk8r]

Inachu, NEVER believe a heater setting: always trust your tank thermometer. Heaters always lie. Dunno why they even bother to have numbers.

Overstocked as you are I would very strongly recommend a sump and an Aqua C Ev 120 or better skimmer: doubling your water volume and enlarging your fuge to include a sandbed would give your fish much better water quality.

[atrox]

Inachu I would remove that heater, seems like its working to well. Cant always trust the thermostat on those. Add a fan, and maybe add a chiller. Other than that make sure your tank isnt in direct sunlight, and possibly set your lights to run at a cooler time of day i.e. later in the day, or even at night till you can come up with a cooling system that works.

[inachu]

I'll buy a new heater this comming weekend.
Any such thing as a closed loop refugium?
It will be my cheap way of increasing water volume.

[Flightpipe]

Inachu, When were your last water tests done and what were all the results. temp, amm, nitrite, nitrate, P02, ph, SG .......everything u can test for.

[inachu]

A cheap clip on fan from wallmart would do as a chiller yes?

[jdmcivicek9]

try buying the visitherm stealth they work really really well and are pretty accurate as far as keeping temp stable in a tank also they are shatterproof...i built a hang on back refugium for my tank out of glass i had cut and all glass's silicone and it works great!

[inachu]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13177166#post13177166 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Flightpipe
Inachu, When were your last water tests done and what were all the results. temp, amm, nitrite, nitrate, P02, ph, SG .......everything u can test for.


I have a $149 tester but it does not give numbers just variations of colors to work within a set degree for results.

Here is the one I use.

http://www.aznphotos.com/view.html?f=tester008lulm.jpg

[cdness]

yes, I run a walmart fan as a chiller and it works... the only thing you need the actual chillers for is if you are in a hotter climate... I keep my place at 70F air temp so I have no issues cooling with a fan.

They are right, the thermostat on the heater isn't reliable. never trust it. With a combo of the heater and fan mine stays pretty constant.

Set up a real sump and overflow under the tank. what do you mean by closed loop fuge? Do you mean a converted canister filter or something? if that is the case you aren't adding much water volume at all... Go get a small 20G tank at the LFS and set it up as a sump...

[cdness]

I don't see an ammonia test in that kit? What is the brand/model of the test kit?

[Flightpipe]

Ok well where were your test results? within what range?

(Ex. light yellow = 5-15 nitrates?) if i understand you correctly.

Also your temp and SG clear so what are they.

[inachu]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13177237#post13177237 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cdness
yes, I run a walmart fan as a chiller and it works... the only thing you need the actual chillers for is if you are in a hotter climate... I keep my place at 70F air temp so I have no issues cooling with a fan.

They are right, the thermostat on the heater isn't reliable. never trust it. With a combo of the heater and fan mine stays pretty constant.

Set up a real sump and overflow under the tank. what do you mean by closed loop fuge? Do you mean a converted canister filter or something? if that is the case you aren't adding much water volume at all... Go get a small 20G tank at the LFS and set it up as a sump...


I want a sump but I am afraid of cutting the center post.

[cdness]

Many tanks will fit in just fine without cutting. A friend of mine put a 20 long under a 75G tank with no cutting. I guess it all comes down to the design of the stand and positioning of the tank.

Another option is to look at the sides? are they thin wood that is tacked in with small nails? if yes, you can pull a side panel off and then reinstall it after the sump is in place.

[Michael]

why are you going to get a sump with this tank, i thought you were going to get a 55 gallon tall:confused: it may be worth getting the new tank and fitting a sump under that one, sorry to hear about the fish, wont say we didnt tell you;) anyhow hope you get that temperature sorted out:rolleyes:

[Sk8r]

Tilt your stand and work some large (8") furniture moving glides underneath, at all points. Then swivel your stand to put in sump from back.
I would recommend help doing this.
I would recommend a 50 g sump and a meaningful skimmer.

[inachu]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13177353#post13177353 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cdness
Many tanks will fit in just fine without cutting. A friend of mine put a 20 long under a 75G tank with no cutting. I guess it all comes down to the design of the stand and positioning of the tank.

Another option is to look at the sides? are they thin wood that is tacked in with small nails? if yes, you can pull a side panel off and then reinstall it after the sump is in place.


This sounds safer.

Will check thanks.

[Flightpipe]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13177264#post13177264 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Flightpipe
Ok well where were your test results? within what range?

(Ex. light yellow = 5-15 nitrates?) if i understand you correctly.

Also your temp and SG clear so what are they.



?????????

[Michael]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13177521#post13177521 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Flightpipe
?????????


:lol:

[tspors]

Inachu CUT the center post it will solve your problems and ours.

[inachu]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13179094#post13179094 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tspors
Inachu CUT the center post it will solve your problems and ours.

I envision the tank falling foward glass breaking and flooding the tenants down below us.

The side sounds more reasonable.

[tspors]

Your envisions are correct Cut Away your last post will be the results.

[Flightpipe]

I was genuinely trying to help you and was curious about your tank parameters (asking you three times) and you don't respond. Someone takes a jab at you and you respond instantly..........well i know where ya stand.

Whatever I tried :rolleye1:

[Toddrtrex]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13179156#post13179156 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tspors
Your envisions are correct Cut Away your last post will be the results.

You strongly suggest that you read up on the [ua].

[inachu]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13179176#post13179176 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Flightpipe
I was genuinely trying to help you and was curious about your tank parameters (asking you three times) and you don't respond. Someone takes a jab at you and you respond instantly..........well i know where ya stand.

Whatever I tried :rolleye1:


I should have replied , "I am at work."

sorry.

[cdness]

Many people have been able to cut the center post with the tank full with no issues... it's just safer to use the side of use a sump size that fits through the doors, or drain and move the tank so you can get the sump under there (perfet time for drilling)

[inachu]

I do not think I will drill the glass. HOB PVC to the sump will have to do.
If it was my tank yes I would attempt to drill it.

[tspors]

Yes Todd Inachu should read them, then the people who are here for good reason will stay, instead of reading his/her 1170 posts that have no end or mature reason to post. I did enjoy coming here to see real people with real issues and concerns about the hobby. Instead I have to read garbage about autopsing fish and 1000 other obscene immature hobbilist comments. Most likely Inachi has accomplished something. I, a 20+ year hobbyist may need to look at the proper means of deleting my profile. If you read the posts and mostly people's responses, you may join me. Sorry.

[Michael]

i think if steel or strong timber is put in place under the tank, it could be possible to remove the centre brace, however it would have to be fixed seriously secure, i have access to what we call unistrut, its metal channel 1and a half inches thick, you use angle brackets to secure peices together via bolts and nuts, it would easily holds a tank if installed properly, but i think you would need to know what you were doing

[Toddrtrex]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13179254#post13179254 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tspors
Yes Todd Inachu should read them, then the people who are here for good reason will stay, instead of reading his/her 1170 posts that have no end or mature reason to post. I did enjoy coming here to see real people with real issues and concerns about the hobby. Instead I have to read garbage about autopsing fish and 1000 other obscene immature hobbilist comments. Most likely Inachi has accomplished something. I, a 20+ year hobbyist may need to look at the proper means of deleting my profile. If you read the posts and mostly people's responses, you may join me. Sorry.

All you have to do is not read the posts/threads that you feel are "garbage"

[tspors]

Unfortunately this person responds to most also. Enjoy Reef Central & Inachu.

[griss]

tspors, if you don't like reading his posts, simply go into the user control panel and put him on ignore. That way you won't see his posts.

[DgenR8]

It seems there are a couple of names in this thread that are beginning to show a pattern of being involved with locked threads. Do you need a hint about how I'm going to handle this problem if it continues?
Griss' advice is good advice. Familiarize yourselves with the ignore button before it's too late.