Lets Share Some Pictures

[Joe Kelley]

Hi,
Nice idea for a forum. I really love the idea of including algae and plants in salt water aquaria.
My favorite book on this topic is Dynamic Aquaria.
So to show some support I'd like to share some pictures with you and maybe get things going.

http://home.earthlink.net/~kenuy/Joe/66.JPG

http://home.earthlink.net/~kenuy/Joe/65.JPG

Joe :)

[Project Reef]

I'm w/ you Joe, gotta love the greenery. It adds a lot of harmony to our tanks. Especially turtle grasses and uncommon algea growths.

[Joe Kelley]

What are your experiences with mangroves PR?
I thought you had some?

j

[eddie]

joe
those are some good pics
great mix to..

[Project Reef]

I had about 20 or so mangroves until I decided to disassemble the little mangrove project due to the need for extra space. I gave the majority of them to the LFS, they didn't look good for a few months, (dormant I believe), then all of a sudden they started to look great at the store, they had them under Halides originally, then transferred them under P.C. lighting.

IMO, mangroves are pretty hardy and can grow as long as they are kept in a stable environment and they are not moved around and relocated often. Basically as long as you let them chill out, they will become accustomed to their environment and will adapt and grow in that environment.

Same thing w/ sea grasses.

[Joe Kelley]

Thank Eddie!~)

Yes PR, I agree. I had a mangrove and it grew well but when I moved it, it died!~(

The sea grass really does best left alone. I have some that grows so much faster, seemingly under away from and in less light. Perhaps they are picking up organics in the substrate. Hmm.

Another,
http://homepage.mac.com/joekelley/.Pictures/Reefs/99.jpg


Joe

[billsreef]

Nice pictures Joe. The organics could well be why your sea grasses do well even in the shaded areas. I find that seems to be more important that light intensity.

[skylsdale]

Hey Project Reef, I should be setting up a mangrove tank in about a month or so(my plan is all layed out in a thread up in the Advanced forum...) If you have any bits of info or tips I would love to hear them. Feel free to PM me--I don't want to hijack this thread.

[dattack]

Would it be an unnatural to put mangroves in the main tank?
:)

[Scleractinian]

Would it be an unnatural to put mangroves in the main tank?

Dattack, the main tank's unnatural!

Actually, I've been waiting to move to a climate where I could replicate some of the hyper saline lakes that I spent too much time in on San Salvador... the bottom is mostly calcareous and organic ooze, very unstable, so almost all of the sessile life uses the available stucture: mangrove prop roots! Very cool.. but It's be hard to have a tank filled w/mangroves in the living room (at least at my house), so it'll have to wait until I can move south or build that greenhouse.

I believe that J. Sprung has maintained several small coral tanks with mangroves featured, and TRA and MCRA have several pics of such systems.

[kmk2307]

This is a cool pic from the Shedd aquarium in their Sea Horse exihibit. It's just Caulerpa prolifera but IMHO it looks really cool.

Kevin

[Joe Kelley]

That is nice. When was that taken?

Joe

[kmk2307]

It looks like they were uploaded to my computer on October 11th so they were probably taken about a couple days or so before then. I love that fish too :-)

My plan is to set up a 20 XH w/ 250 watts of MY and get a nice forest of Caulerpa prolifera like that and get a mated pair of banggai cardinals in there. And trim like crazy!!! I'm tempted to get it going and then get a pair of sea hares ("sea bunnies") from IPSF to keep the growth down but then I would have to worry about them getting scared and putting out that nasty dye. I'd like to put a big scolymia or solitary polyp in there too.

Anyway that was probably more than you cared to hear but I'm a big Caulerpa prolifera fan :-)

Kevin
----
edit: originially i said "...have to worry about them going sexual too." I just wasn't thinking. Actually, they apparently produce lots of tasty larva that corals enjoy consuming.

[Dragonlady]

Here is an interesting red-maroon macroalgae.

[Joe Kelley]

Oooo nice Dragon Lady!
Bill this is kind of what I mean by shaded growth. The main plant is under quite a bit more light. It shoots out a rizome(spelling) and the new growth heads for dimmly lighted territory.
http://homepage.mac.com/joekelley/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/2003-01-28%2020.06.10%20-0800/ImageDSCN2831.jpg

Joe :)

[chicki]

I'm trying to grow some macroalgaes in my tank. I bought some of this a few weeks ago and it doesn't look like it's getting roots?? does anyone know if this type likes to grow in substrate or rocks? I have it on the rock right now. I think it's a red algae of some sort?
thanks
p.s. neat thread!

[Joe Kelley]

Oooo, I like that Chicki, not sure what it is though. I have not seen that in person. Can you ask your LFS where it may have come from?


HTH
Joe

[chicki]

I'll ask when I'm in there next. In one of my books it looks to me like a Rhodophyta algae?? (grateloupia filicina)??thats the closest in type but the color is a little different, in the book. Or halymenia sp.??

[Dragonlady]

Originally posted by Dragonlady
Here is an interesting red-maroon macroalgae.
*
I forgot to add that the attached picture of the red macroalgae in my other post to this thread might be
Plocamium,
Halymenia, or
Gracilaria textorii.
Maybe that will help someone else trying to ID the same macroalgae.

* It would have been so much easier to read to just edit the above post, but oh well.:rolleyes:

[Joe Kelley]

Dragon lady and Chicki,
I have had some beautiful red algae come and go that just grew from live rocks. I mean really nice stuff. It grew best under less light and who knows what nutrients were thier fuels.
Look behind the eels there is some red algae that was named dragons tounge,
http://home.earthlink.net/~kenuy/Joe/75.JPG

I think that I have more pictures of it somewhere.

HTH

Joe

[Will]

Here are my mangroves:
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/13246100_0316.jpg
Nothing special, but they're plants! ;)
-Will

[chicki]

I've never been able to grow those mangroves??

I was at another LFS yesterday and they had some of these red algae I have... it came in there as "red grape kelp"?? Does kelp grow out of rocks?

[Joe Kelley]

Chicki,
That is a typical responce from an LFS. I have had best luck with red algae under lower florescent lighting.

Will,
Those are really nice "typical" mangroves. Even the most common things in our hobby are not typical if I were to go out the front door and go look for them. Keep it up they look great!

Joe
:)

[dc]

My Prolifera, the only thing that seems to grow besides the Bryopsis.
http://images.fotki.com/v1/photos/2/28482/68928/3502Prolifera-vi.jpg

[horge]

Dragonlady:

I do not think that is any sort of Halymenia.

Do a search for Cryptonemia crenulata.
Keep in mind this is a guess based on (no offense) a very fuzzy photo.


hth.

horge

[Dragonlady]

horge,
Thank you very much for the information. I admit that the photo is sort of fuzzy, but the original photo that I asked you about was not fuzzy at all. I actually broke off a piece of it and scanned it. My digital camera is relatively new, and it really needs a special lense to get better macro shots. It is probably easier to identify it seeing more of it though. Here is the closer one again.

[Dragonlady]

Here is another closer picture of the same one, but a larger frag of it. BTW, I think that everyone here knows that macroalgaes are not true marine plants, but anyway...........

[chriss]

Here is a picture of Red Macro I got from Mary at SeaCrop, she calls it dreadlock.

http://64.127.179.9/Web%20Site%20Pics/Web%20Site%20Pics/Tank%20Pics/Red%20Macro.jpg

[kmk2307]

You gotta love plant-oid protists. Dragon Lady, I believe that algae is dictyota.

Kevin

[Dragonlady]

It is certainly a foliose Rhodophycae,or Rhodophyta. These are the red algae and they are definitely the LARGEST group out there, as well as probably being the oldest subdivision of protists. It really resembles Cryptomenia seminervis to me.

C. seminervis, along with many other Rhodophyta can be found here at this link.
http://ucjeps.berkeley.edu/constancea/83/ballantine_aponte/rhodophyta.html

and some more here
http://ucjeps.berkeley.edu/constancea/83/cf.html

What do you think?Does it look like the
Cryptomenia seminervis pictured?

I think that horge is right that the organism in question is probably a type of Cryptonemiales, and I thank him again for his help. :D

[skeeter]

Here is a shot of my Refugium with some various macros.

[Frick-n-Frags]

dragon lady,

macro algae are not true VASCULAR plants
but all algae are plants from the plant kingdom.

(with cyano maybe a little in the grey area, just as euglena are in the grey area from the protist's side because they have chloroplasts but act like an animal)


protists are not the kingdom that red algae comes from. All 6 major Phyla of algae are in the plant kingdom. (red = Rhodophyta)

just trying to clear up some taxonomic confusion here.

[Dragonlady]

Frick-n-Frags,

Actually, there are a few protists in the Rhodophytes.

http://www.zoology.ubc.ca/courses/bio332/redalgaenotes.htm

I already stated that everyone here knows that macroalgaes are not true marine plants.
I agree that they are not true VASCULAR plants:)

[Dragonlady]

Protists are ANY of a taxonomic group and especially a kingdom (Protista) of unicellular, colonial, or multicellular organisms usually including the protozoans and MOST ALGAE

[Frick-n-Frags]

Red Algae
The red algae (Rhodophytes, Rhodophyceae) are nearly all multicellular with a complex organization. There are no flagella at any stage in the life cycle.

that's a quote right out of your link. Seriously, if you can see that red macroalgae in front of you it is not a Protist. Don't want to get into a continuing arguement here, but IMO you are misinterpereting this just a bit. Algae are plants with a few exceptions. Protists is a kingdom added later after certain 1 celled or simple colonial 1 celled animals kept exhibiting both plantlike and animallike characteristics or even less than either other Kingdom's characteristics. It was a catch-all that took in a few representatives from many other animal/plant kingdom groups. But stuff like yeasts, bacteria and viruses is what the Protist Kingdom was really created for.

And after seeing many posts with a title "Algae or Plants" I have a feeling people may be getting a little off the path because algae are plants. So within keeping things simple and straightforward:

ALgae and vascular plants (and the several Phyla in between) are all PLANTS and you will keep out of most conflicts maintaining that distinction.

Please quote me the reference that says "MOST algae are protists", or are you forgetting the "pelagic one-celled or simple colony" part of the description? I just think you are causing some confusion just repeating portions of certain texts somewhat out of context IMO, but hey prove me wrong so we know the facts ultimately. Just in all my Bio classes(including microbiology) and all the texts and references I have accumulated, algae are mostly plants.

I know a whole gang of botanists that could eat all of us for lunch on this topic, maybe an email asking about the definitive current taxanomic heirarchy WRT algae and where can we get it will help.

[Dragonlady]

Originally posted by Frick-n-Frags
Red Algae
.....Please quote me the reference that says "MOST algae are protists", or are you forgetting the "pelagic one-celled or simple colony" part of the description? ......

Sometimes it is very interesting to look up words in the dictionary that you already think you know from memorization. Look up the word protist here:

http://www.m-w.com/home.htm

Is this definition wrong?


"....Algae are not really plants. They belong in a separate category called protists. ...."

http://mbgnet.mobot.org/salt/plants/

[kmk2307]

I like to think of Protista as a "grab bag."

If it helps any, Caulerpa is considered a protist.

Yeast, however, is actually a fungus.

Kevin

[arkman]

pro·tist (prô'tĭst)
n.
Any of the eukaryotic, unicellular organisms of the former kingdom Protista, which includes protozoans, slime molds, and certain algae. The protists now belong to the kingdom Protoctista, a new classification in most modern taxonomic systems.

[From New Latin Prôtista, former kingdom name, from Greek prôtista, neuter pl. of prôtistos, the very first.]

pro·tis'tan (-tĭs'tən) adj. & n.
pro'tis·tol'o·gy (prô'tĭ-stŏl'ə-jç) n.

CHECK out www.atomica.com. you 'alt'-click on any word and the intenet does its magic. Most insanely useful thing ever.

[Derek Skillings]

To respond to the taxonomic arguement going on.

All taxonomy has pretty much been re-structured in the last couple of years. There is no five kingdom system generally accepted anymore. Algae do not belong to the kingdom plantae, they are actually grouped into several different kingdoms: Alveolata (dinoflagellates), Stramenopila (brown algae, golden algae and diatoms) Rhodophyta (red algae) and finally Chlorophyta (green algae). Some biologists do place the green algae in the kingdom plantae though. All the above kingdoms belong to the domain eukarya.

The term protist is basically a catch-all phrase that though still used, does not technically have much taxonomic meaning anymore. The old protist kingdom has been divided into about 11-13 different kingdoms (depending on who you ask)

Maybe that will help clear things up.

[The Shaman]

Here's a good pic of Caulerpa serrulata (Razor Caulerpa):

[kennerd]

I'll bump this back up with an old pic of my 7 gal cube with several macros in it.

http://home.earthlink.net/~obrienken/_uimages/7galcube.jpg