View Full Version : Stray voltage
I stuck my hand in the tank tonight and got quite a zap. I narrowed it down the the Sedra 5000 pump running my skimmer. I put my hand back in about 10 minutes later, this time no shock. What should I do about this? I would like to avoid having to buy a new pump if possible as they are quite expensive. Thanks
Steve
kau_cinta_ku
08/19/2008, 11:42 PM
IMO a new pump will be about your only choice. and possibly the safest
Should I look at any other pumps for this skimmer other than the Sedra?
kau_cinta_ku
08/20/2008, 12:13 AM
oceanrunner pumps do well also.
Are you sure it's the pump?
Quite sure it's the pump. Only get shocked when skimmer is running. No shock if skimmer is off. I decided to take the pump out and take a look at the pump and I was in for another shock(sorry;)). The back cover was slightly lifted on one side, like it wasnt fully seated. So I carefully pryed it off. To my surprise it was quite easy. When I took the cover off I was greeted with this mess (I took some pics I will post later because Photobuckets site is down right now). Looks like the expoxy that was supposed to be insulating the motor. Whatever it is this stuff was all soggy and deteriorating. I've never looked inside of a pump before but I definitely didn't expect it to look like this. So I don't think there is any hope for this pump. Guess I will be skimmerless until the replacement arrives. Can you suggest where to purchase a new pump? Are the Oceanrunners better pump?(more durable? better performing?). I have read a little about those Sicce pumps that Octopus is using, are those any good? Would my skimmer perform well with one of those? Sorry for all the questions but I need to come to a decision on a pump ASAP for the sake of my livestock. Thanks for your replies, especially kau_cinta_ku for the fast reply in both of my threads.
kau_cinta_ku
08/20/2008, 01:46 AM
anytime, thats what we are here for :D
I can't say much about diff. pumps, but I used to run an ASM skimmer with a sedra pump, and it kept overheating on me and making the impeller swell up to the point where it wouldn't run anymore. I am now running a reefmaina skimmer with the oceanrunner pump and can tell it is alot better than the sedra's IMO.
as for a place to buy you can try aquacave, they are decent.
http://www.aquacave.com/NeedleWheelWaterPumpsCatalog.aspx
Which Oceanrunner would be equivalent to the Sedra 5000?
kau_cinta_ku
08/20/2008, 01:57 AM
I would say the 2700 would be the closest.
the 5000 is 500gph correct? if so then I would get the 2700.
kau_cinta_ku
08/20/2008, 02:01 AM
you could also try the octopus 2000 pump they are cheaper but I can't comment on how well they are.
Sorry, don't know about alternate pumps. I've been running my asm g4x with the sedra for a little over 3 years with no trouble but will moonitor it more closely now. Let me know what you find out in terms of an effective alternative.
Thanks
I don't think I wanna be the guinea pig on this one so I will probably just get another Sedra for now and maybe a new skimmer in the near future. I'll post a more specific question in the filtration forum and see what I can find out.
Here are the pictures of the pump with the back peice removed.
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa169/stevemartinspics/CIMG1184.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa169/stevemartinspics/CIMG1186.jpg
This stuff was completely wet and falling apart. Definitely not insulating which explains the shock I was getting.
kau_cinta_ku
08/20/2008, 09:44 AM
wow that is bad, I have never seen it crumble like that.
one thing you could try though, remove all of the old stuff that you can and refil it with a marine epoxy. let it harden, set in a bucket of water and test with a volt meter. that is basically all that insulation is. or at least that is what it was on my quiet one pump.
cpony69
08/20/2008, 09:47 AM
aren't you using a grounding probe???
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13191231#post13191231 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cpony69
aren't you using a grounding probe???
No, I'm not even sure how to set one up. I've heard mixed things about it. I didn't know I had a problem until now. I think I will try the epoxy trick. Can I find the appropriate epoxy at home depot or the hardware store?
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13191231#post13191231 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cpony69
aren't you using a grounding probe??? :) If he was without a gfci ,that stray voltage would have been stray current and likely have harmed his livestock.As it was he became the ground probe.
Someone care to explain how to set up a grounding probe?
kau_cinta_ku
08/20/2008, 10:10 AM
yes any hardware store should have the stuff. it may be a 2 part type.
again test with a volt meter, I don't want to see you get hurt if it don't work. :D
I'm gonna give the epoxy a shot today, thanks for the advice. Hopefully it works at least temporarily till I can figure out which new pump to get.
kau_cinta_ku
08/20/2008, 10:21 AM
grounding probe, is easy, just plug it into a grounded outlet and place in the tank or the sump.
Michael
08/20/2008, 10:29 AM
a titanium bycycle spoke can be used, just pop it in the sump or dt or both, and connect to ground, also run a gfci, regardless of what you are told about this, it will probably save your life under fault conditions, ok the livestock may be affected but as much as we love our fish and corals we should care about our own safety first,
As Sam noted a grounding probe is easy.
When voltage leaks from any device it generally stays in the area of the device. Voltage is potential current. It only becomes harmfull when it finds ground. Think of a bird on a wire. The probe provides this ground. Or you do when you touch the water.
A gfci outlet or adapter plug together with a grounding probe is really the only way to protect you and your livestock. The gfci in simple terms measures the amount of current going in and out and if there is some missing it trips. The gfci will detect minute stray current but not stray voltage . So you really need them both.
A volt meter test on your system from time to time can give you a false sense of security since it measures voltage and not current(amperage).
cpony69
08/20/2008, 10:40 AM
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e102/Jasonanatal/28%20gallon%20JBJ%20Nano%20Cube%20HQI%20Reef%20Aquarium/CanonDigitalRebelXTPhotographs0192.jpg
Thanks guys, I'm going to get a grounding probe today. As far as using a volt meter, do I just stick both leads into the water to detect voltage?
Michael
08/20/2008, 11:29 AM
no 1 in the tank and 1 to ground, however as tom mentioned its worth testing current as well, different scale on the meter but same idea
Do you think silicone will work?
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13191218#post13191218 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kau_cinta_ku
wow that is bad, I have never seen it crumble like that.
one thing you could try though, remove all of the old stuff that you can and refil it with a marine epoxy. let it harden, set in a bucket of water and test with a volt meter. that is basically all that insulation is. or at least that is what it was on my quiet one pump.
kau_cinta_ku
08/20/2008, 01:31 PM
I can't say if it will or not. but if you take out all the old junk you will start to see the wiring and such. That is what you want to cover up and make waterproof.
the only reason I suggested the epoxy is due to how it hardens, just like the stuff that should be in there, however silicon should still make it waterproof.
I couldnt find any epoxy that I was comfortable enough to put in the tank so I used some aquarium grade silicone. I had one smaller size tube and used all of it. I let it harden about 8 hours before testing. I put the pump in a bucket of water, added a little salt to aid conductivity, turned it on and tested it with a volt meter. I got no reading at all. I cautiously stuck my hand in the water and still got nothing. I put the pump back on the skimmer, turned it on and then stuck my hand in the tank... no shock. It seems to be fixed for now. Hopefully it doenst give me any more trouble but if it does at least I know a way to fix it. I am still going to order a new pump because this one is obviously not in the best shape. Looking back I wish I would have used epoxy because I think it would have better heat dissipating characteristics. Only time will tell.
kau_cinta_ku
08/21/2008, 12:10 AM
congrats on getting the pump running again and safely. :thumbsup:
Not so fast. I went back and tested the pump just a few minutes ago and my stray voltage was back. Armed with my volt meter I picked up 26 volts and I can feel the shock again now. I took the pump out and could see water underneath the silicone I had put in. I didn't let it cure long enough! Supposed to wait 48 hours but ofcourse I couldnt wait that long, I gave it around 8 hours. Tomorrow I will go back to the hardware store and pick up some of the right epoxy. I was thinking of using the 2 part putty type epoxy since it is very dense and should dissipate heat well. I will keep the thread up to date.
Cheetos&Cocopuf
08/21/2008, 09:15 AM
The epoxy will not stick to any leftover silicone residue.
Be careful and good luck dude.
vBulletin® v3.8.4, Copyright ©2000-2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.