Always Something... ISOPODS

[figuerres]

Great, Now this..... I go to feed the fish and what do i see...

Yep, isopods on my tang and 2 of the clowns.....

Time to get some forceps and make up some water .....

and check for more bugs I have not seen yet.....

and start checking for news of any dips that might help.

I know I can do a fresh water dip with some small chance of getting them to release.

but as far as I know this will mostly be a case of manual removal.

Sucks, as in fish lice / leaches :mad:

[divemonster]

Denny, sorry to hear about the isopods. Keep us posted on your progress of removal.

[figuerres]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13231142#post13231142 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by divemonster
Denny, sorry to hear about the isopods. Keep us posted on your progress of removal.
well step #1 was to go get a 29 Gallon "Biocube"
that will be a fish only for a while as I get the pods off the fish and start traping any remaining pods in the main tank.

I am starting to make some new water and I will be filling the cube tomorow. and I will run some of my 18 and 25 gallon tubs with air stones to hold some of the rock.

with all the rock I have it will take time to catch the fish and move them to the qt tank.

after I get rid of the pods I will use the cube as a nano tank as it has the basics, only lacks a skimmer and I know folks have got small skimers into these tanks.

that's day one...

[figuerres]

By the way... for the record....

I have been getting rock from tampabaysaltwater for about 6 years now I guess.

I had a 55 gallon, then moved to my 90 Gallon.

this is the first time I have got any of the bad isopods.

so they don not come in every load of rock, you can go thru several loads and not find them.

[divemonster]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13236185#post13236185 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by figuerres
By the way... for the record....

I have been getting rock from tampabaysaltwater for about 6 years now I guess.

I had a 55 gallon, then moved to my 90 Gallon.

this is the first time I have got any of the bad isopods.

so they don not come in every load of rock, you can go thru several loads and not find them.

That's good to know! You had me all paranoid. I had recently introduced blue reef chromis into the tank. I had seen an isopod with Part 1 but haven't had any problems with the creepy pests. That hog of a blenny probably ate it. . .

[figuerres]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13237820#post13237820 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by divemonster
That's good to know! You had me all paranoid. I had recently introduced blue reef chromis into the tank. I had seen an isopod with Part 1 but haven't had any problems with the creepy pests. That hog of a blenny probably ate it. . .

well on the one hand yes, they happen but not all the time.
I think about one time each year I have seen a post about them.
often the post has been some one asking how often they show up :)

the "bad news" though is if they are there they can be nasty.
I have read that they can even bore out of the gut of a fish that tries to eat them :eek2:

I will be moving the fish and making the "stinky water traps" over the next few days.....

I saw the photo in the reefkeping mag article and it's not hard to make, a wide mouth jar -- like a mason jar, a plastic water / soda bottle top and a rubber band.

use the top end of the plastic bottle to make a funnel the rubber band holds that on the jar, take the lid of the bottle and drill a very small hole and attach that to the bottle top.

then put some dead shrimp and nasty shrimp juice in the jar and put at the bottom of the tank such that the bugs can swim in for a bite and can't get out so good.

when I get the pods out and I am ready to move the fish back I think I can use the same trap to catch my mantis and move one to the nano tank at the end of the job.
should also work to trap crabs....

[figuerres]

NOTE for folks who may need to remove an isopod I found this:

FINQUEL MS-222

is a fish anesthetic you can buy it from the Mfg or from fosters and smith.

from fosters a small bottle is 24.95 plus shipping.

from the mfg larger amounts can be ordered driectly.

Mfg web site: www.argent-labs.com

or

www.DrsFosterSmith.com search for the name "finquel"

[figuerres]

well got the biocube started up,made new water for it and this morning took some out and gave it some of the water from my 90 gallon tank, then changed the 90's sump filter sock and used that to add some "seed" to the new cube, so a bunch of gunk, good pods and bacteria / alge from the main tank is in the biocube to help get it ready to use.

[divemonster]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13244163#post13244163 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by figuerres
well got the biocube started up,made new water for it and this morning took some out and gave it some of the water from my 90 gallon tank, then changed the 90's sump filter sock and used that to add some "seed" to the new cube, so a bunch of gunk, good pods and bacteria / alge from the main tank is in the biocube to help get it ready to use.

Denny, what an excellent idea! My nano cube could've used this "seeding" but I did not think of doing it. Your experience and contributions to this board are so valuable, especially for novices like me.

[figuerres]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13244909#post13244909 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by divemonster
Denny, what an excellent idea! My nano cube could've used this "seeding" but I did not think of doing it. Your experience and contributions to this board are so valuable, especially for novices like me.

Thanks :)

Yeah over the next few days I will do several water changes and use that to help the cube get ready.

for example I can do a 20 gallon change tonight by pumping the
cube almost empty and then take 20 from the main tank to re-fill the cube. then use the "new" water from the cube to re-fill the 90. the 90 gets a fresh w/c and the cube gets mature water with bactria / alge and any plankton in my water.

I am making up more new water and will send 20 new to the 90 and do 10 gallons of the used water to the cube.

I will also pick very carfully from the 90 a small amount of rock, macro alge and other bits to get the cube going ....

right now the cube has the bio balls and no skimmer so I will be doing a number of 5 to 10 gallon w/c each week as I run it this way.

I found a possible skimmer to put in later but I'm busted for now on the $$$ side :(

the skimmer is not for sale just yet, very new, made to fit right in the bio-ball section of the 29 gallon cube.

[figuerres]

Well not much to see, first pic of the BioCube just a box of water right now...

http://picasaweb.google.com/figuerres/20080828BioCube29Gallon/photo#5239719177725052210

[Melusina]

Hi - this is probably a dumb question, but I'm curious since I'm awaiting part 1 of my package. Could the water that you're transfering from your 90 gallon contain isopods or their eggs and contaminate your BC? I'm wondering how to handle things if I get some of these wonderful creatures. Good luck!

[figuerres]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13248957#post13248957 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Melusina
Hi - this is probably a dumb question, but I'm curious since I'm awaiting part 1 of my package. Could the water that you're transfering from your 90 gallon contain isopods or their eggs and contaminate your BC? I'm wondering how to handle things if I get some of these wonderful creatures. Good luck!

No not a dumb question, as I was taught "the only dumb question is the one you don't ask"

anyway:

well there are a lot of things in the water; mostly good things.
now if I had say Ich I would not use tank water because it spreads thru water.

Now the isopods must have some kind of larval stage just like other critters, and most times the larval stages are swimers.

I do not know what the larval stage for the bad isopod is like but I do know that the feeding adults stay in the sand and rock for the most part.

so as long as I am very careful using the water should not be a problem.

even taking a small amount of rock should be ok as long as I am careful.

once I have just enough I will be keeping the two systems seperate and checking both for any problems.

if you have any of the bad isopods or think you might then start with a tank with no fish, if you keep it fish free for about 2 months they will starve and die.
also you can make a trap and see if any show up.

note that *MOST* isopods are not a problem, only a few of them feed on live fish.

you will find a ton of pods in the rock and sand, 99.9% are good guys.

[Melusina]

Thanks for the info! I plan on going slow with this new tank to look for other critters anyway. Fortunately, I have a BC29 right now so I have something to play with while I'm waiting for the rock for the new tank. Plus, with all the storms, it could be awhile so I may as well practice patience.

Good luck with catching the little buggers. I've been enjoying your posts.

[figuerres]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13250229#post13250229 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Melusina
Thanks for the info! I plan on going slow with this new tank to look for other critters anyway. Fortunately, I have a BC29 right now so I have something to play with while I'm waiting for the rock for the new tank. Plus, with all the storms, it could be awhile so I may as well practice patience.

Good luck with catching the little buggers. I've been enjoying your posts.

thanks! :)

[hobobob]

Bear with me, this is my first attempt at posting an image.

Isopods. We were fishing for Mako Sharks 25 miles off of New Jersey using whole bluefish for bait. We had a bait suspended down 45 feet in 35 fathoms of water.

Checking on the bait after a shortwhile, we found that these little pillbox creatures had chewed a hole into the side of the bait and were totally eating it from the inside out. When we brought the bait in the boat, these nasties spilled from the side of the bluefish all over the deck.

Now think:
#1 the bait was in over 120 feet of water drifting up more than 60 feet off the bottom. How did they find it so quick? They were swarming!

#2 We swim in the ocean with these? I thought I should be scared of the Makos! F that! these are scarier than anything else I've seen. Everybody's got their threshold of being absolutley being disgusted. Mine is high, no very high, but this freaks me out.

And they're swimming in your tank? Be very afraid.

If my pic doesn't come through, I'll try againhttp://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/198654IMG_6225_post.jpg

[figuerres]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13255307#post13255307 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hobobob
Bear with me, this is my first attempt at posting an image.

Isopods. We were fishing for Mako Sharks 25 miles off of New Jersey using whole bluefish for bait. We had a bait suspended down 45 feet in 35 fathoms of water.

Checking on the bait after a shortwhile, we found that these little pillbox creatures had chewed a hole into the side of the bait and were totally eating it from the inside out. When we brought the bait in the boat, these nasties spilled from the side of the bluefish all over the deck.

Now think:
#1 the bait was in over 120 feet of water drifting up more than 60 feet off the bottom. How did they find it so quick? They were swarming!

#2 We swim in the ocean with these? I thought I should be scared of the Makos! F that! these are scarier than anything else I've seen. Everybody's got their threshold of being absolutley being disgusted. Mine is high, no very high, but this freaks me out.

And they're swimming in your tank? Be very afraid.

If my pic doesn't come through, I'll try againhttp://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/198654IMG_6225_post.jpg

for sure they can be ugly scary critters.

notice that you were using dead bait yes?

if you check the data many of them are scavengers / detrivores.
also they do not like light, during the day they hide in shallow water. or go deep.

also what you did in effect is almost the same as what I will be doing in my tank, a jar with a pice of dead shimp, and a kind of funnel, they will swim in to find the food and be traped there.
then I can pull the jar out and remove them.
also if you think that was bad try this out

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant_isopod

or

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeOSXtBCY30

so the ones I am going after are nothing compared to the really big ones.

but when I am removing them for the fish I will be wearing gloves :)

also when I get the fish out and some buckets of water ready I will be wearing gloves as I stir things up.

[Melusina]

Okay, that's about the nastiest thing I've seen in a long time.

[figuerres]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13256387#post13256387 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Melusina
Okay, that's about the nastiest thing I've seen in a long time.

well now for something not quite so nasty:


http://picasaweb.google.com/figuerres/20080828BioCube29Gallon/photo#5240318912476530882
http://lh3.ggpht.com/figuerres/SLlaSVfsyMI/AAAAAAAAAE4/3Vwl2aR4BtE/s144/BioCube%2029Gallon%20002.JPG

the Gorg is one from TBS, the shroms and the brain are from other sources, the rock with the zoanthids is a tbs rock with zoas that colonized it on thier own.

I am not planning on puting any medications in the cube, just using it to keep the fish out of the 90 while I get the isopods dealt with. when I am done I will add more stock and run the cube as a 'real' nano tank.

[figuerres]

by the way here is a link on how to find and remove them and a bunch of info on the ones we may see in a reef tank.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/bp/index.php

[Melusina]

Your new tank inhabitants seem happy - the Gorg is gorgeous! Hope all goes well with the move. Strangely, I enjoyed the article - not sure whether it was the demise of the isopods or the writing style of the author that I enjoyed more. Or the mental picture of him tiptoeing up to his tank in the dark.

Thanks for the info!

[figuerres]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13259557#post13259557 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Melusina
Your new tank inhabitants seem happy - the Gorg is gorgeous! Hope all goes well with the move. Strangely, I enjoyed the article - not sure whether it was the demise of the isopods or the writing style of the author that I enjoyed more. Or the mental picture of him tiptoeing up to his tank in the dark.

Thanks for the info!

yeah it's a well written article, I like it also.

well friday I got the finqel, foreceps and some para guard, today I got some smaller mason jars and some water bottles and rubber bands.

I have about 24 gallons of new saltwatwer getting ready with air stones.

tonight and tomrow I'll be making pod traps and doing a water chnage to get ready to net my fish and check each for pods and remove as needed.

so by this time tomorow I should have pictures of the next steps in my process.

also I think a mantis ate a clenaer shrimp ! I only see one red and white cleaner today!

[figuerres]

well I have examined the clowns and Can not find any pods on them! I will be checking them for the next few days very closely in case I missed one.

the Finquel works very well, I made a solution in a glass jar and put plain saltwater in a large specimin holder (rectangular plastic deal they sell at LFS or on line)

started adding small amounts of finquel solution to plain saltwater till the clown was not quite asleep.
works ... well, I was able to check the fish and then move it to the biocube and it recovered very rapidly, in less than a minute it was swimming normaly.


I have not yet got my hippo tang yet, he knew something was up and hid in the rockwork.

I took some of the rock out but taking out all of it .... I hope by letting it be for the night I can net him tomorow.

I have photos but have not uploaded them from my camera yet.

I have the traps ready and some stinky shrimp in a jar for bait
jar is well sealed and in the fridge till I need it.

[Untamed12]

Chicken!!!

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r118/untamed_photos/100_0297.jpg
http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r118/untamed_photos/100_0297b.jpg

[Melusina]

It looks like a little trained seal that's standing up and clapping and waiting for you to throw it a fish! :fish2:

[Untamed12]

I think he was more likely thinking..."please don't kill me...I'll be good...I didn't mean anything by it...I was just trying to survive...put me back in the tank, I'll be good...."

[figuerres]

new assorted photos...


http://picasaweb.google.com/figuerres/PodRemovalProgress#


http://lh4.ggpht.com/figuerres/SMPlAjtyhkI/AAAAAAAAAHY/5T7xuX-19pM/s288/pod%20removal%20progress%20022.JPG

http://lh6.ggpht.com/figuerres/SMPnC8izUjI/AAAAAAAAAHw/6RQZStF_RYQ/s288/pod%20removal%20progress%20030.JPG

but with all that work guess what?

none of the pods are on the fish when I finaly got them out of the tank!!! :rolleyes:

I KNOW I saw a big one on the tang, I can see aplace where it was that is healing.... well I hope they are in the tank somewhere where I can starve / catch them and make it safe to return them, a few of the fish can stay in the bio cube but not all of them, esp not the tang.

[divemonster]

Tough luck Denny :( All of that work and worry, then you're not able to find the culprits!

Will you still set the traps in the big tank or just starve them out?

[figuerres]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13306474#post13306474 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by divemonster
Tough luck Denny :( All of that work and worry, then you're not able to find the culprits!

Will you still set the traps in the big tank or just starve them out?

Yes, I will definitly do some of both.

first as there are no fish, the amount of "food" I add will be almost zero. some for the anemoneis and the corals but not the normal feeding like fish need.

then after a while I will try traps to see what I can catch.

this also was / is usefull in doing a good cleanup and water change.

the anemonie I digging his foot back into the sand bed this morning...

I will be looking at moving a few things, some of the coral might be better placed.

[divemonster]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13306518#post13306518 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by figuerres
Yes, I will definitly do some of both.

first as there are no fish, the amount of "food" I add will be almost zero. some for the anemoneis and the corals but not the normal feeding like fish need.

then after a while I will try traps to see what I can catch.

this also was / is usefull in doing a good cleanup and water change.

the anemonie I digging his foot back into the sand bed this morning...

I will be looking at moving a few things, some of the coral might be better placed.

Denny, how's your hunt going? I'm so thankful to you for this post. These nasty little buggers were in my nano tank. One got smushed with a chopstick, and 2 more are residing in a little bowl.

Fortunately I only have Part 1 in this little tank at the moment so they were easy to catch. Now I will wait and watch to see if there are more before getting Part 2.

[figuerres]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13370124#post13370124 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by divemonster
Denny, how's your hunt going? I'm so thankful to you for this post. These nasty little buggers were in my nano tank. One got smushed with a chopstick, and 2 more are residing in a little bowl.

Fortunately I only have Part 1 in this little tank at the moment so they were easy to catch. Now I will wait and watch to see if there are more before getting Part 2.

Not much to say at the moment...

Been letting the 90 just kinda do it's thing.

one fish had to stay in the 90, a six-line wrasse
in the 90 I had a lone fire goby who kept to one corner and the six-line-harasse would come over and chase him into hiding from time to time. if I had put them in the 29 gallon cube the flame goby would be dead by now.
when all is said and done the flame will stay in the biocube.

no signs of problems with the tang and clowns in the cube other than the tang was sleeping under a zoa-rock but I think now he is finding other places, I kept worrying he would get sick from the zoanthids stinging and mucus... seems ok though.

now that some time has passed and no real food has been added to the 90 I will run the bait jars and see what I find.

also I found a very small anemonie and what I think is a tiny filter feeding cucumber on one rock.

I will have to try and use my macro lens to even get him in a photo, say 4mm or less in size.

[g8gxp]

Well apparently a I have these things too. I got part 1 about 2 weeks ago. tonight my wife noticed a whole bunch of little things swimming in the water column after lights out. Apparently a brood of them hatched or something because there are DOZENS of them. Tiny things, no more than 2 mm long.

What should I do? How do I starve these darn things? they are waaayyy to small to grab with anything other than a pair of tweezers and would slip right out of a net. Fortunately I don't have any fish, but with the amount of algae and miscellaneous stuff floating around I don't think they will run out of food anytime soon.

[figuerres]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13388635#post13388635 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by g8gxp
Well apparently a I have these things too. I got part 1 about 2 weeks ago. tonight my wife noticed a whole bunch of little things swimming in the water column after lights out. Apparently a brood of them hatched or something because there are DOZENS of them. Tiny things, no more than 2 mm long.

What should I do? How do I starve these darn things? they are waaayyy to small to grab with anything other than a pair of tweezers and would slip right out of a net. Fortunately I don't have any fish, but with the amount of algae and miscellaneous stuff floating around I don't think they will run out of food anytime soon.

well first do not jump to any conclusions.... there are litteraly hundreds of "small critters" / AKA PODS that you might have seen.
even ISOPODS can be ok there are only about 2-3 kinds of isopods that are not good for our tanks.

the "BAD" isopods have a very distincive body and eyes.
so for now just try and get a good look, if you can catch some in a clear plastic or glass contianer in use a magnifiing glass to examine them.

for example I have a lot of small "sping tail" isopods in my tank, they are natual fish food for my wrasse.
also good food for any fish that can catch them.

the bad isopods tend to stay hidden, if you see swimming pods
you may see mysid shrimp or other kinds of spawn from crabs, shrimp etc... they swim when first hatched.

I used to have some good macro photos of some... not shure where they are now, but you can google for photos on line.
isopod, copopod, zooplankton

[chrisgil10]

I had these things and when small like you described I would wait until lights out and they would start swimming around and hangin on the corners or my mag float. the only way I caught them was to go real slow as close as i could with a turkey baster that all the are was out of and let go of the bulb they would get sucked up. then i put them in a glass bowl to see if I caught them. you have to shake it up a bit or they get caught in the bulb. when I knew i had it I went after more counting each catch to make sure they did not stay in the baster. when I could find no more I dumped them in the toilet and flushed them I did this for like 2 weeks straight before no longer seeing any where from 2 to 6 a night. I did catch one larger one but not with the baster it was more luck. I forget how though.


at least you found out before you had fish I bought a damsel and like 2 attached to its mouth. I was lucky though he got them off while I tried to catch him and then i took him and my other two out until I got it all cleaned out.

[figuerres]

NEWS:

I did a filter sock change and now have a sample of some "Good" TBS pods and some "bad" tbs pods.

I think my camera batterys just finished re-charging so I can snap some photos, got my macro lens ready so hopefully I can get some good close up pictures in a few minutes.

[figuerres]

link to photos:

http://picasaweb.google.com/figuerres/20080921PODSFromMyFilterSock#


http://lh4.ggpht.com/figuerres/SNawA0KOYjI/AAAAAAAAAKg/9VdohenkG08/s800/PODS%20from%20my%20filter%20sock%20014.JPG

Good

http://lh4.ggpht.com/figuerres/SNawbRp4yOI/AAAAAAAAAKw/rOCmdQooFb4/s800/PODS%20from%20my%20filter%20sock%20017.JPG

BAD

if you look at the album I had 6 bad pods and a whole lot of good ones.

the good ones are fish food, clowns, wrasses and other fish love to eat them.

[figuerres]

small update: now about 26 days with main tank clear of all but the wrasse.

I did a filter sock change yester day, checked the sock carfully and did not find the bad pods.
that does not mean they are gone but they can only go for so long w/o fish to feed on if they are the parasitic type of isopod.

any of the "scavenger" forms will still live though...

when I did a stink-jar I did not find any pods.
but I am not doing that every night.
well now to see what happens over the next 2-4 weeks.

[Drunes]

Thanks for the update, think I will let mine sit for a couple of weeks without any fish in it after part two just in case. It will probably take me that long to catch the mantis that I am bound to miss. :lol: :lol:

[Melusina]

I've been watching my tank after lights out at night with a flashlight with a red beam. I've seen several things that look like those insects that we called "rolly-polly" bugs as kids which I'm assuming are some type of good pod. Last night, I saw something that quickly hid when the flashlight hit it so I didn't get a good look. It appeared to be about 3/4 to 1 inch long, and about 1/4 inch wide. I've never seen that before - any ideas?

[figuerres]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13487797#post13487797 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Melusina
I've been watching my tank after lights out at night with a flashlight with a red beam. I've seen several things that look like those insects that we called "rolly-polly" bugs as kids which I'm assuming are some type of good pod. Last night, I saw something that quickly hid when the flashlight hit it so I didn't get a good look. It appeared to be about 3/4 to 1 inch long, and about 1/4 inch wide. I've never seen that before - any ideas?

well that could be almost anything given that all you really said is size and fast moving.... sorry but w/o a body it's a total guess.

just look at the photos I linked a few posts back, the "BAD" ones are very distinktive when you do see them.

one other thing I can say is the good ones move with a kind of "hop" but the bad pods seem to move in very strait paths.
reminded me of how a roach will scram when the lights come on in a room that has them.

at 3/4 of an inch to an inch it could be a small mantis shrimp, a large pistol shimp, a crab, some other shrimp, a small goby fish
or some other thing...

Goby: tbs rock sometimes will have a small fish called a "tiger goby" they are often less than an inch long and are nearly transparent. they will hide most of the time and are hard to see even when they are out.

[Melusina]

I forgot to mention that this thing was almost white or a transparent sort of white. My first thought when I saw it was a goby, but then I got concerned that it might be a really big isopod and I just didn't see its eyes. Yuck!

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13488619#post13488619 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by figuerres
well that could be almost anything given that all you really said is size and fast moving.... sorry but w/o a body it's a total guess.

just look at the photos I linked a few posts back, the "BAD" ones are very distinktive when you do see them.

one other thing I can say is the good ones move with a kind of "hop" but the bad pods seem to move in very strait paths.
reminded me of how a roach will scram when the lights come on in a room that has them.

at 3/4 of an inch to an inch it could be a small mantis shrimp, a large pistol shimp, a crab, some other shrimp, a small goby fish
or some other thing...

Goby: tbs rock sometimes will have a small fish called a "tiger goby" they are often less than an inch long and are nearly transparent. they will hide most of the time and are hard to see even when they are out.