exotic zoo pricing

[daaznmofo]

is there a list of going prices of some exotic zoos?

[dark_stranger]

nope, it would seem that vendors can choose to price them as they see fit, some higher than others.

[daaznmofo]

i'm only asking cuz i don't know how to price some zoos cuz i don't see people selling it.

[capture]

this is an ongoing discussion. its what you feel is fair for what you are buying. some folks may buy a polyp for $10 a head and someone else may find the same polyp for $60 a head and feel that they want it enough to pay that amount. its subjective.

[xskyzx]

Its you see no1 have the one you have then put a higher price. If a really rare one, I would do $10-15 a head lol, armor of god, ppe and stuff ill do 5 a head , all just depends I think lol...

[Logzor]

Going to the coral trading/selling forums will give you a good idea. This way you can actually what people are selling zoas for and if people are buying them.

Also, check out ebay for zoas, this will give you a real time view of what people are paying for them.

These options are much better than browsing random sites and looking at prices! Watching the market in action is much better.

[daaznmofo]

i tried looking at f/s forums and ebay.
thanks for the advice tho.

[650-IS350]

Supply and Demand
Added Price of new " DESIGNER NAME "
Added price for " Limited Edition " name attached to it
Added price for " RARE " attached to the name

[sbcaes]

yeah they are all ridiculously priced anyways... ppl just enjoy ripping ppl off. its called greed. charge what you feel is fair.

[Rakie]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13250779#post13250779 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sbcaes
yeah they are all ridiculously priced anyways... ppl just enjoy ripping ppl off. its called greed. charge what you feel is fair.

True true.

[MUCHO REEF]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13237159#post13237159 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by daaznmofo
is there a list of going prices of some exotic zoos?

Hello daaznmofo, in almost 18 years of reefing and keeping zoanthids and palythoas, I have yet to see an exotic Zoanthid or Palythoa. I have seen some that are prettier to one reefer as oppose to another, some more colorful and brighter than other, some with specks, circles of all sizes and shapes, but I would never call them exotic. This is and has always been nothing more than a simple marketing tool to excite you to buy something at a higher price which someone has set and it has absolutely nothing to do at all with supply and demand. I found an entire frag of 13 of the popular purple palys for $ 49.99, you can find them on line and locally being sold from $ 25 to $ 75 per polyp. They are still being called RARE, LE Limited Editions, hard to find by some, anything to get you to buy them at the sky high prices.

My goal next year is to set up a new tank with some of the most stunning bright colors all of which have been around for many many years to prove how easy it is to have a very colorful system without paying for something by the polyp.

You wrote, "is there a list of going prices of some exotic zoos?"

To answer your question, there really is no list, many are selling them by the polyp for whatever someone will pay for them. Everyone has their own list, so I guess there are thousands of lists after all.


Mucho Reef

[flyyyguy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13257884#post13257884 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MUCHO REEF
almost 18 years of reefing and keeping zoanthids and palythoas, I have yet to see an exotic Zoanthid or Palythoa.

I think many of them are exotic......all of the ones I still keep are. If they werent...I wouldnt be obsessed with keeping them nor finding more new and interesting ones I dont already have

exotic is not to be confused with rare ;)

[MUCHO REEF]

Of all the polyps I have ever own, seen, talked about, shared, sold, purchased etc over the years from all regions around the globe, I never heard the word exotic or LE being mentioned until per polyp sales started 2 to 3 years ago :wavehand:. When someone decided to give a polyp a name, the prices went sky high. When they went sky high, someone came up with the term exotic which then lead to LE, it continued to lineage, then everything on Ebay was labeled as Rare, and the windfall began. If prices ever drop back to what they were 3 years ago, you will never hear the words exotic, LE, lineage or rare again. It's MARKETING, MARKETING, MARKETING at its best daaznmofo, remember that. Just buy what catches your eye and I guarantee your longevity will be endless as well as the smile on your face.

Hey flyyguy, we respectfully disagree my friend, and that's ok too. How's the tank BTW?

Mucho Reef

[Kreeger1]

Exotic yes, rare no.
I tend to agree with flyyguy on this one
Erik

[Guygettnby]

i have abunch of exotic zoos in my tanks. but that is beacuse i think they are exotic. i have seen some zoos going for dirt cheap around here that online vendors sell for $20 a poylp.

i have a huge colony of deep purple zoos and they are verry pretty. when my friend saw them he freaked and wanted a frag right then. i fraged him off about 10polyps and when he got them home and in his tank they changed to a brown color. zoos that people say are rare and SE are fool of S*#@ !! exotic is one thing, but exotic is exotic only if that person finds them to be worthy of that term.

[MUCHO REEF]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13261030#post13261030 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Guygettnby
i have abunch of exotic zoos in my tanks. but that is beacuse i think they are exotic. i have seen some zoos going for dirt cheap around here that online vendors sell for $20 a poylp.

i have a huge colony of deep purple zoos and they are verry pretty. when my friend saw them he freaked and wanted a frag right then. i fraged him off about 10polyps and when he got them home and in his tank they changed to a brown color. zoos that people say are rare and SE are fool of S*#@ !! exotic is one thing, but exotic is exotic only if that person finds them to be worthy of that term.



Now I agree with that 100 %, it's purely subjective.

[Kreeger1]

Agreed with that as well!

[ZOAKEEPER]

This is a very old discussion. But I agree 100% with Mucho. I started my first reef tank in 81. I lived in Southern Cal. then. Nobody wanted anything green or brown. Now there Nuclear greens for 60 bucks a polyp. I laugh and shake my head. I recently traveled through some states in the Midwest. 4 states in all. After Fosters and Smith. I did the whole DEX thing and stopped at every saltwater store along the way down to Kentucky. Sure the big stores had the names and "exotics" on there zoa's. And asked that exorbitant price for them. But there is nothing exotic about any of them. Tomm. a different morph will be sold at a distributorship and sombody at Pet***** whatever will buy it for 30.00 a rock. The people who started the "ZOA" frag sites did so for the money. Of course. Some have started there own reef sites. And they need those LE,Exotics and whatever to survive and sell to unsuspecting people. Watch yor local fish store. Rocks of zoanthids without a web based name will be there that are just totally awesome. Buy these. You'll be alot happier.

[Logzor]

Would there be a way to have a spreadsheet of zoas with pic and have people submit what they would be willing to pay per polyp. I think it would be interesting to compare to going rates online.

[0rbital]

I just watch the several reef LFS there's always some deal at one of them. I just looked at a website for zoa frags and they're selling 5 polyps of Green Bay Packer zoa for $25. I walked into an LFS last week and bought a big uniquely shaped rock with around 50 GBP zoa on it and another dozen blue zoa for $24.

[Guygettnby]

i think it would be pretty cool to have some kinda spread sheet aswell... but to be honest with you i doubt it would make any difference. people are still gonna label them as exotic and SE, or any other name they can think of to make the money. the sad thing is that people out there will still pay the crazy price for them beacuse they want them and dont care or are just to dumb to know better. sorry if the dumb part insults anybbody here, but at the rate that zoos grow, i dont think anybody should pay any more then $5 a polyp exotic or not. but when i frag my zoos i usually ask $10-15 a frag and they usualy have anywere from 10-20 poylps on them.

[MUCHO REEF]

Zoakeeper, I continue to find stunning frags and colonies just sitting there in the LFS with no names attached to them. This puts the fun back into the hobby.

I don't believe the spreadsheet would make any difference other than to show what they are being sold for. The prices vary across the board from sellers to retailers to on line stores.

[IridescentLily]

I haven't had the pleasure of keeping zoas, yet, so take this on that basis. :)
I think it's easy for peeps who have lfs near them to forget that there are reef keeping people who wish to maintain zoas (and other corals) who don't have lfs selling Zoanthids near them. Nor have any access to any local reef club.
In the above scenario, it's not a leap for me to see that there would tend to be that wicked supply and demand pricing.

lol, I'd love to be able to say "well I just look around at my local lfs and wait till they get one that looks healthy that I like".
I think you're fortunate. That's not the case for everyone however.

I think these discussions are what are good. I think It's good now and again to re-examine things or even to remind newer reef keepers of the reasoning behind things. Because there's so much rapid change in the industry it's good to stop and think about those types of things now and again.
I've noticed a similar type of discussion going on the lps and sps areas too. For instance I think this zoa naming and pricing discussions are similar to the Tyree chalice naming/pricing discussions. I've read it said that the naming and pricing "craze" started around the time of the first person who named purple people eater zoanthids. This sounds like the same time of Mr Tyree's growing and coloration experiments, and the later fragging and selling of same.
As a newcomer, personally I feel that Mr Tyree gets a bad rap because of being thrown in with some of the "naming scam" conversations. I will never understand the seeming irritation that some reef keepers have with the Tyree et al corals.
All that was organic it seems to me. And thus the naming and colors, pricing, etc went it's natural direction. In other words to me that was a "pure" thing in the industry.
I'm only speaking of Mr. Tyree now when I say that sometimes as a reader of threads, I say to myself "Give the man a break." It's my opinion that that individual did something great. Are people mad they didn't "do it" first? :p lol Nothing was stopping anyone from doing this.
Are these "coloring up" leading edgers doing something to inhibit the reefkeeping hobby? Please clue me in because I am truly ignorant about that particular part.
Is driving up the cost of a zoanthid polyp going to do something negative to the reef keeping industry or hobby?
Or is it going to do something positive for the hobby? I have no idea really but it's an interesting question I often have.
I totally agree with the folks who scoff at not being happy with a zoa unless it's a "rare" kind of zoa. I think that's ridiculous and people should call attention to that when they might see that. Some people just plain don't know, and appreciate that kind of info, and some know and don't care.
Throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I hate when that happens; whether it's ignoring a pretty zoa because it doesn't have the right name, or, lumping all zoa "namers" into one negative box.

[allauction]

In my area it is tough to find any zoo's period, but to find anything good is priced crazy. We have a local store that hos nothing priced, if you ask about something in a tank he always says something like "Oh, you mean this " SHOW PIECE" colt coral or whatever it is. I almost crack up everytime he does that... He has small colonies of fairly plain zoos and palys and he wants $80 for it.

[flamron]

My plan is to get these "rare" zoas - and any other coral for that matter, and just saturate the poo out of the market. Just dump a bunch of high end coral (not zoo's necessarily) for cheap. If I can do this, and get others doing it as well, prices will come down....
In theory

Not sure if it would truly work, but I wish some of the people selling stuff on here would do that, as that would really help out the reefing community. I'm not in this to make money. I want to make everything I have as accessible as possible; even to the reefer on a tight budget or just starting out (which I am doing, so it may be a while before I can start doing this).

Good reefing and good luck!
Ron

[ZOAKEEPER]

Your location is not posted so I don't know where you are. Let him keep the zoa's, find other reef members in the community and inform them also. Find a reef club forum here in R/C and buy from other members. Eventually he'll make his pricing comparable and learn he can sell more product. Tell him there to much, and say thank you, goodbye. He's a businessman, he'll catch on.

[dtpollard]

Yep. I would not even buy rock from my lfs. the closest real store is 1 1/2 hour drive 1 way. I buy a lot of the "overpriced polyps" off the internet. I want the most color for what is limited space in my tank. Also if I lose a frag(rarely), I don't really feel to bad because I know there are more out there. I do sell/trade some frags of the ones that grow fast to the local reef club. I also sell the ones I don't like(it happens). I try to mainly buy aquacultured polyps that are tank grown, I think they do better, and don't mind helping support someone who is takeing their time to sell something they grew.

[MUCHO REEF]

IridescentLily wrote,

"I think these discussions are what's good. I think It's good now and again to re-examine things or even to remind newer reef keepers of the reasoning behind things. Because there's so much rapid change in the industry it's good to stop and think about those types of things now and again. I've noticed a similar type of discussion going on the lps and sps areas too. "

I think this discussion needs to stay at the forefront even though it is an old discussion. I agree also on this below,

"I haven't had the pleasure of keeping zoas, yet, so take this on that basis. I think it's easy for peeps who have lfs near them to forget that there are reef keeping people who wish to maintain zoas (and other corals) who don't have lfs selling Zoanthids near them. Nor have any access to any local reef club.
In the above scenario, it's not a leap for me to see that there would tend to be that wicked supply and demand pricing."


IridescentLily wrote,

"Is driving up the cost of a zoanthid polyp going to do something negative to the reef keeping industry or hobby? "

Yes, it already has. Dozens of new reefers, both older and teens whom I have introduced to the hobby, had to leave during and after the intervention of naming and sky high prices. Prices of which were $ 30 to $ 50 for colony of any color or combination thereof you see today prior to 2 or 3 years ago. I understand that you are fairly new to the hobby, but knowledge is king I think.

The hobby has changed from reefing to retailing and a lot of sellers don't want you to know that. Polyps are being bought just to propagate to sell them as soon as a polyp is produced. Many many polyps, frags and colonies are loss each day, week, month and year due to excessive and premature fragging. Fragging which is done for pure profit. I'm not speaking of those who sell a periodic frag to help finance reefing, I'm speaking of those who are in this purely for profit, high profit margins, i.e. money. Many, NOT ALL, who choose not to discuss this issue are the ones who do not want the word to get out and will choose to attack you, me or anyone who speaks against it. I know of a great guy, a great friend who has a great business on the west coast who is forced to raised his prices on some great polyps he sells. Why? Because if he doesn't, everyone would buy his stunning polyps cheap, then turn around and sell them for 5 to 10 times what they paid for them.

I was offered $ 900 for one paly polyp, $ 900 !!!! I grew that polyp over a span of 6 days. Some will tell you it is worth what the market demands or is willing to pay. The market didn't demand that price, one person did. This is how these name and price crazes began. Then the terms LE, Limited Edition, Rare, Never Seen Before, are introduced and the consumer rushes to be the first to buy, then you have to turn around and sell your first polyp to get your money back because you've realized just how much you spent. This affects the hobby negatively because the newer reefers will never be able to afford anything colorful as the price is through the roof because everyone has to recoup their investment. The cycle never ends. It may take years before the market is saturated before the average blue collar worker can afford a single polyp of something that might die the day after it is received. "Well Mucho, why should I care about a newbie. If he/she can't afford the hobby, then they shouldn't get into it". Well, they can afford the hobby, the just can't afford the polyps. In my opinion, the newbie is just as important of the older reefers.

The negative impacts is even broader, but I'll stop here.

Mucho Reef

[MUCHO REEF]

IridescentLily wrote, "

Or is it going to do something positive for the hobby?"

I'm still waiting on the positive. I continue to hear things like, "it helps with IDing something or knowing what you're getting before you buy it". How did the hobby survive this long without it? We have bought, sold and traded these polyps for years without names and labels. I hear now that names makes it easier, yeah, it does, for reselling. I would love to see equal concern and attention being paid to more knowledge based discussions. I ran into a reefer at a LFS who wanted to know which camera he should buy to help hype and showcase his polyps like everyone else on line. He was looking at 2 cameras, both over $ 800 apiece for the camera alone, no tripod, no lenses etc. I saw a picture of his tank and his polyps, many weren't dead, dying or near death. Others were covered in bubble and nuisance algae. He had flatworms and cyano, but he had one new bright red named colony that he wanted to show to everyone because he was told it was a rare LE. I see far more negatives than positives.


IridescentLily,

"I have no idea really but it's an interesting question I often have. I totally agree with the folks who scoff at not being happy with a zoa unless it's a "rare" kind of zoa. I think that's ridiculous and people should call attention to that when they might see that.

I certainly agree with that.

Mucho Reef

[MUCHO REEF]

Correction on the 5th line in the above paragraph.


Many( WERE ) dead, dying or near death.

[IridescentLily]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13350052#post13350052 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MUCHO REEF

Yes, it already has. Dozens of new reefers, both older and teens whom I have introduced to the hobby, had to leave during and after the intervention of naming and sky high prices. Prices of which were $ 30 to $ 50 for colony of any color or combination thereof you see today prior to 2 or 3 years ago. I understand that you are fairly new to the hobby, but knowledge is king I think.

The hobby has changed from reefing to retailing and a lot of sellers don't want you to know that. Polyps are being bought just to propagate to sell them as soon as a polyp is produced. Many many polyps, frags and colonies are loss each day, week, month and year due to excessive and premature fragging. Fragging which is done for pure profit. I'm not speaking of those who sell a periodic frag to help finance reefing, I'm speaking of those who are in this purely for profit, high profit margins, i.e. money. Many, NOT ALL, who choose not to discuss this issue are the ones who do not want the word to get out and will choose to attack you, me or anyone who speaks against it. I know of a great guy, a great friend who has a great business on the west coast who is forced to raised his prices on some great polyps he sells. Why? Because if he doesn't, everyone would buy his stunning polyps cheap, then turn around and sell them for 5 to 10 times what they paid for them.

I was offered $ 900 for one paly polyp, $ 900 !!!! I grew that polyp over a span of 6 days. Some will tell you it is worth what the market demands or is willing to pay. The market didn't demand that price, one person did. This is how these name and price crazes began. Then the terms LE, Limited Edition, Rare, Never Seen Before, are introduced and the consumer rushes to be the first to buy, then you have to turn around and sell your first polyp to get your money back because you've realized just how much you spent. This affects the hobby negatively because the newer reefers will never be able to afford anything colorful as the price is through the roof because everyone has to recoup their investment. The cycle never ends. It may take years before the market is saturated before the average blue collar worker can afford a single polyp of something that might die the day after it is received. "Well Mucho, why should I care about a newbie. If he/she can't afford the hobby, then they shouldn't get into it". Well, they can afford the hobby, the just can't afford the polyps. In my opinion, the newbie is just as important of the older reefers.

The negative impacts is even broader, but I'll stop here.

Mucho Reef [/B]
Wow. Thanks for helping me understand and enlightening me about the "how and why". It must be a tireless topic for you all so I appreciate the time you took for explaining for what must have been the eleventeenth time.
From reefing to retailing. I understand now.
Just last night someone was kind enough to point me to some threads inwhich I read about the sprouting up of these coral chop shops for lack of a better term. I was talking to my husband about it after I read around a bit more, I'm like; Okay put the knife away and back away from the aquarium people. :rolleyes:
I also read what can I do as a future reefer to help this situation.
I love the saturate the market idea that ive read here. That seems like the best thing at the moment that one can do as a seller/buyer.
Maybe since there isn't any local lfs to speak of here, when I do acquire some polyps (via postal service prolly), I can maintain them in such a way as to have enough to give to other local reefers. And they, in turn, can grow them to enjoy and to also later give some to other local reefers. I think I read here of a few reef hobbyists doing that. I would be jazzed to do that for my part when the time comes Mucho.
I've also learned by reading yesterday that many fellow reef keepers here on the forum trade and sell in the above manner, not to make a profit. *loves this forum more and more*.
I wonder what other kinds of things reef lovers can do to help offset that ignorant garbage.
900.00$ for a polyp. Good grief. :rolleye1: :rollface:
I guess there's a cache to some of it queno? In addition to the create the market price sellers, there's also the "I have the best." type of buyers. People with more than an average amount of money like to do sometimes. :p I'm sure they're not helping things either. Those folks tend to have more money than time and so tend to rely on others for the "coloring up" process, hence opportunity knocks.
Also, I imagine there are newcomers to reef keeping who are just unaware that they can pay less for these things and color them up (and grow them) themselves.

[dtpollard]

Can we see a pic of what a $900.00 polyp looks like. I gotta see it. Maybe I'll want one as well.:)

[MUCHO REEF]

IridescentLily, you catch on quickly my friend. I hear there's a movement brewing out west to bring prices back down to what they once were, affordable. This will help the hobby immensely, but it will take a lot of backing.

dtpollard, No such thing as a $ 900 polyp.

Mucho

[ZOAKEEPER]

Business is business. It makes the world go round. As much as I would like to use names I will not. (R/C mods circle the waters waiting to attack unsuspecting(but deserving) prey) Internet companies use names that have been attached or that they have made up to make what would otherwise be just any other generic zoanthid something that is not. When you see that "must have" zoanthid for 30.00 a polyp do you think that those are the only three polyps they have? NO, These polyps are bought from distributors on rocks, some with hundreds of polyps on them. And yes, for very cheap. With there mighty hammer and screwdriver and maybe a little work they now have multiple frags. Hopefully for them as many as possible. That "Red Dawn" or "Royal Orange" now has a name and a 20 dollar a polyp price tag. How many do you want? Sure we have them. Alot of these people were reefers, then they found the internet. Alot are nothing more than Internet savvy chop shops who are bent on making money and taking advantage of unknowing people who have found a wonderful new hobby. Everyday distributors bring in rocks and rocks of zoa's that have not been seen or named, what to do? I wish I knew. I wish there was a way to flood the market. But by who? Not enough people surf sites such as R/C, so awareness is difficult. Members of my family have been told by local fish store owners to tell there father to quit giving away frags to people. ( I generally try to help new people start up) This is an expensive hobby. Many LFS's will not post for R/C or other sites, They do not want the consumer to know there is another alternative to help them in there new hobby. I could go on for hours. I'll stop. I'm out. Keep on reefin.....

[IridescentLily]

Zoakeeper, wow, that's not good. I can see how there is opportunity for that now that the internet is used.
I imagine I am full on prey for someone like that, lol. I like pretty zoas, or let's say I like certain colors or whatever more than I like others. I don't think that's a bad thing, nor should it be imo. But yet, it seems that part, the "pretty!", little kid part :p is in fear of being stymied just because of the likes of the jokers described above.
I wind up feeling sort of conflicted. For instance, say there's a zoanthid that I "fell for". Say tt really jumped out at me on the forum here as a "wow". Well, being me, I want to ask someone in the know about it. Or I wanna ask the person to whom the photo belongs, "what is that?". I mean, for me, it's just a natural thing to ask. Because it's fun! :o
And so I find myself feeling sort of uncomfortable asking now because I don't want to seem like i'm propelling that above mindset. Should I try to rein that in?
Say I'd like to know what on line sellers call them incase I happen to see them during my on line "window shopping" (heh heh).
It's almost as if the opportunists and price gougers are winning dangit, but in a different way; they might be responsible for sucking some joy and spontanaeity out of the hobby.
If I see a zoa that looks like it has whiskers because of some lines radiating outwards at 9 o'clock and 3 o'clock in it's little zoa face http://pages.prodigy.net/indianahawkeye/newpage29/10.gif, I would feel like talking about it, sharing or whatever. But what if someone posts and says "oh those are rabbit whisker zoas." Well, I think that's cute. But would that seem like i'm promoting a name=more money mindset? Someone might be leery and post afterwards and say "No there not, there just pink! *eye twitch*". Well, in a sense my mellow has been harshed, and so has the offended person's mellow. :o
Also, I was thinking a couple hours ago about this; It seems like there's so many zoas, you gotta call them something, right? What did you all do before? I mean how were the various zoas differentiated? Were there always as many color variations?
I don't mean any disrespect to the hobby here, but I gotta be honest and say; I like the scientific part, and of course I love the husbandry part, but the coloring up part sounds fun to me too. It really does. I know the husbandry part is what makes a pretty zoanthid colony. That's one reason why I like Seapug's thread...it can show what happens to zoanthids with good husbandry, or design, regardless of the popular names of them.
I wonder what your thoughts were on that Mucho or Zoamaster. Are those kinds of convos or posts looked down upon as promoting the opportunists? God help me, I enjoy talking about those cute things about a particular zoanthid, or a color but I am leery so I thought I'd ask.
When I finally do set up a reef aquarium, I am keen on designing an aquascape designed around color or color combinations. And so color and such is important to me. Not names per se but color is fun to me, and interesting. :)

[MUCHO REEF]

IridescentLily, you wrote.


" For instance, say there's a zoanthid that I "fell for". Say it really jumped out at me on the forum here as a "wow". Well, being me, I want to ask someone in the know about it. Or I wanna ask the person to whom the photo belongs, "what is that?". I mean, for me, it's just a natural thing to ask. Because it's fun!

And so I find myself feeling sort of uncomfortable asking now because I don't want to seem like i'm propelling that above mindset. Should I try to rein that in?
Say I'd like to know what on line sellers call them incase I happen to see them during my on line "window shopping" (heh heh).
It's almost as if the opportunists and price gougers are winning dangit, but in a different way; they might be responsible for sucking some joy and spontanaeity out of the hobby. "

I agree, it's natural to want to do that, I see some things I'd like to have as well. But you know, I've only inquired once to someone who posted a picture of how I can get a few polyps. It was something that I had which fell over and died while I was away. It was hard to come by and I hadn't found it anywhere to replace it. For me, I simply hate to ask for a frag of something that someone posted when just sharing. Why? Some reefers don't mind sharing, but many are offended when ask for a frag or to be put on a list for a frag if they ever frag it. Some just don't want the hassle, some do, but many don't. Not because they're mean or don't want to share, but it wasn't there reason for posting the picture along with the dozens of request for a frag flooding their PM box everyday.

This is a hobby that can become very addicting. I've personally witnessed reefers using earmarked bill money to buy polyps which they know they can't afford. Yes, I know reefers who are seriously addicted in a very bad way. There are those who are willing to capitalize on that addiction and talk you into spending your last dime on a must have polyp which might die in transit or shortly after it arrives. I wrote an article on knowing who to buy from, when to buy and questions to ask before you purchase a single polyp without physically seeing it. I knew it would cause a firestorm from hell, so I chose not to post it. Once prices fall back to what they were, $ 15 for a frag of 7 to 10 and when names, rarity, lineage and whether it is labeled LE or exotic aren't as important and prominent as captive care, husbandry, and overall knowledge, to simply keeping them alive and prospering, you will then see an influx of new reefers who will carry the hobby into an awaiting generation. Things are far too commercial right now for that to happen. Many who want to reef and collect polyps can't. Why? They can afford the tank, fish, water, hardware etc, but they can't afford to fill a 70 gallon system with per polyp purchases.


IridescentLily wrote,

" And so I find myself feeling sort of uncomfortable asking now because I don't want to seem like i'm propelling that above mindset. Should I try to rein that in? "

If you feel uncomfortable, then there's a reasons for that. I think that's something you'll have to work out on your own, but I know where you're coming from. I too feel very uncomfortable about asking even though some may find it flattering to ask for a polyp, I simply choose not to do so. Pictures are often posted in the forum to solicit sales under the guise of just sharing, so the temptation is always there. I say follow your heart, not your head and you'll be fine.


IridescentLily wrote,

" Say I'd like to know what on line sellers call them incase I happen to see them during my on line "window shopping" (heh heh). "

I have seen the name BAM BAM's attach to 3 distinctly different colored polyps, orange, red and canary yellow, and yes, they were all named Bam Bam's.

I've seen the a dirty green paly being sold as a popular green paly which is sold for $ 50 a polyp that everyone has to have. Only problem was what they received, a common green $ 2 a polyp paly that you are told will color up someday. To this day, I buy what I like and not according to its name. I was in Florida earlier this year and I stopped by a well known store with a great rep by many. I pretended not to know a thing about prices, names and polyp keeping. The first thing I was told was the name and that it was a limited edition polyp ( LE ) and that I should jump on it right away. I was told they were the only ones anywhere who had this polyp. The price $ 45 per polyp. He said I could buy it and carry it back on the plane or they could ship it back to Michigan. We entertained him with our ears for a full 10 to 15 minutes as he gave us a litany of stories on how rare his stuff was. There wasn't a single rare polyp in his many tanks that was rare, there is no such thing as limited editions of which he mentioned many times. He even told me that a well known person who uses his name to sell corals had just release a few corals that went "Limited Edition" and only a few will ever own them, LOL. I can only imagine how many reefers have been sold by this very catchy marketing invitation. LE needs to be replced with LS, LIMITED SUPPLY. The ocean doesn't produce just a few polyps for one guy and one guy only so he can sell them to you. Limited Edition is a marketing tool which excites and promotes you to buy, QUICKLY. He was willing to sell me all of these high priced polyps, all glued to a white frag plug. They were mostly freshly cut and glued frags which showed no frag plug discoloration. There was no pink coralline algae, not a speck of remote nuisance algae fiber in the smallest form, no tissue growing onto the frag disc which shows that the polyp was attached weeks ago, nothing. Noy even a slight discoloration of the plug surface. This was a freshly cut and glued frag as many were which gave it a slim chance of survival in transit. Little did this seller know that he lost me and my buddy the very moment he mentioned their names and the words, LIMITED EDITION ( LE ). So many sales are being lost due to the very mentioning of these terms, yet an equal number of unsuspecting reefers, new and old alike, give in to it.


IridescentLily wrote,

" If I see a zoa that looks like it has whiskers because of some lines radiating outwards at 9 o'clock and 3 o'clock in it's little zoa face , I would feel like talking about it, sharing or whatever. But what if someone posts and says "oh those are rabbit whisker zoas." Well, I think that's cute. But would that seem like i'm promoting a name=more money mindset? Someone might be leery and post afterwards and say "No there not, there just pink! *eye twitch*". Well, in a sense my mellow has been harshed, and so has the offended person's mellow. "


This sight has something for everyone. I don't believe in public attacks here. As a Team RC member, I will defend anyone’s right to say whatever they want as long as they aren't rude, disrespectful, offensive and flaming. Though I may not agree, everyone has their right to like and dislike what they want and involve themselves with in the zoanthid forum. If you want to refer to something by name, then you should feel free to do so. It's true; some will say “it’s a pink paly, that's all you need to know ". Usually it is someone who dislikes names and is just making their opinion known. I'm not going to say either way if you are or aren't promoting the name game. Just be yourself and have fun no matter what the name or if they have one.


IridescentLily, you wrote.

“Also, I was thinking a couple hours ago about this; it seems like there's so many zoas, you gotta call them something, right? What did you all do before? I mean how were the various zoas differentiated? Were there always as many color variations?


I have attended more swaps than I can remember for years. We never used names. We used pictures and detailed descriptions and it worked very well. It's ironic that the naming intervention coincided with prices going through the roof and per polyp sales. This is why so many are against names. If the prices stayed the same or revert back to what they were, you'd see a major shift towards the acceptance of names. These polyps are so vast in colors, patterns, striation etc, we've yet to remotely see what the oceans have to offer. Only 10 % to 25 % of the oceans of the world have been explored. Can you begin to imagine the realm of zoanthid and palythoa possibilities which have yet to be discovered?



IridescentLily, you wrote.

“I don't mean any disrespect to the hobby here, but I gotta be honest and say; I like the scientific part, and of course I love the husbandry part, but the coloring up part sounds fun to me too. It really does. I know the husbandry part is what makes a pretty zoanthid colony. That's one reason why I like Seapug's thread...it can show what happens to zoanthids with good husbandry, or design, regardless of the popular names of them.
I wonder what your thoughts were on that Mucho or Zoamaster. Are those kinds of convos or posts looked down upon as promoting the opportunists? God help me, I enjoy talking about those cute things about a particular zoanthid, or a color but I am leery so I thought I'd ask. "


You're not disrespecting anyone my friend, stop that. Just add and take from this forum as much as you can. Your contributions and others is what's more important than anything above.


IridescentLily, you wrote.


" When I finally do set up a reef aquarium, I am keen on designing an aquascape designed around color or color combinations. And so color and such is important to me. Not names per se but color is fun to me, and interesting. "

Good for you, I agree wholeheartedly.


Never ask me to reply, I'm long winded, LOL,LOL, sorry.

Good luck with the new system.

Mucho Reef

[IridescentLily]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13379238#post13379238 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MUCHO REEF
IridescentLily, you wrote.


I agree, it's natural to want to do that, I see some things I'd like to have as well. But you know, I've only inquired once to someone who posted a picture of how I can get a few polyps. It was something that I had which fell over and died while I was away. It was hard to come by and I hadn't found it anywhere to replace it. For me, I simply hate to ask for a frag of something that someone posted when just sharing. Why? Some reefers don't mind sharing, but many are offended when ask for a frag or to be put on a list for a frag if they ever frag it. Some just don't want the hassle, some do, but many don't. Not because they're mean or don't want to share, but it wasn't there reason for posting the picture along with the dozens of request for a frag flooding their PM box everyday.


You rock, thanks so much.
Yes, I see that, what you describe above, of late. When I read around various the various sections and threads and stuff. Sometimes the thread convo's going along and someone who is obviously unknowing to the poster (and somewhat green about etiqutee maybe) will post a "Hey, gimme a frag okay?" and I'm like ":eek: , wow. *winces* Well, maybe they know him really well." lol. And then later I'll read another frag request, except it's more eh...courteous shall we say. :p And I'll be like "Okay, it's a swap thing here with some, that's so cool." And on the top there's the here and there kind and generous, over and above, forum lurkies who message you and says "oh i'll give swap you a frag if you want later?" (you know who you are ).
So, yes, I understand you now, there is certainly an opportunity for a wide range of experiences here. ;)


This is a hobby that can become very addicting. I've personally witnessed reefers using earmarked bill money to buy polyps which they know they can't afford. Yes, I know reefers who are seriously addicted in a very bad way. There are those who are willing to capitalize on that addiction and talk you into spending your last dime on a must have polyp which might die in transit or shortly after it arrives. I wrote an article on knowing who to buy from, when to buy and questions to ask before you purchase a single polyp without physically seeing it. I knew it would cause a firestorm from hell, so I chose not to post it. Once prices fall back to what they were, $ 15 for a frag of 7 to 10 and when names, rarity, lineage and whether it is labeled LE or exotic aren't as important and prominent as captive care, husbandry, and overall knowledge, to simply keeping them alive and prospering, you will then see an influx of new reefers who will carry the hobby into an awaiting generation. Things are far too commercial right now for that to happen. Many who want to reef and collect polyps can't. Why? They can afford the tank, fish, water, hardware etc, but they can't afford to fill a 70 gallon system with per polyp purchases.
No way! Aw man, that's way lame. lol. I so know about how others feel addiction-wise. Sheesh, I dont' even have a dang aquarium yet and i'm already talking here with you all, I can't even imagine what's the addiction is going to be like once I actually get something. :lol: *looks to make sure husband isn't listening* But...yes know I understand why we all need to be aware. Yep. I understand the LE/Rare/one of a kind cache. It's greed is what it is. Some folks don't understand, it's work, and it should be work appreciated, or not, but it wasnt' intended and shouldn't be taken, copied and turned into something that's strictly a means of making money. I don't get it either, I've experienced it in living color, lol, on another forum.
From my experience that type of thing is likely to occur when someone comes along within a particular industry/forum/hobby, etc, and gets a little creative, they're talented that way or whatever. And then as naturally we all do, alot of people like looking at that person's accomplishment. Then maybe the product or opinion or whatever, of that person's accomplishment becomes more "valuable" in that hobby or area than other similar products. Because alot of people ooh and aah about it, I'm aware now that sometimes there's some people who might be looking at all that. Some people come along and they don't ever think (and I wonder if they'd give a damn if they did think sometimes). And all they see when they come along is "ooh I can acquire that too, and get money".
I really hate that.




IridescentLily wrote,

" And so I find myself feeling sort of uncomfortable asking now because I don't want to seem like i'm propelling that above mindset. Should I try to rein that in? "

If you feel uncomfortable, then there's a reasons for that. I think that's something you'll have to work out on your own, but I know where you're coming from. I too feel very uncomfortable about asking even though some may find it flattering to ask for a polyp, I simply choose not to do so. Pictures are often posted in the forum to solicit sales under the guise of just sharing, so the temptation is always there. I say follow your heart, not your head and you'll be fine.



I have seen the name BAM BAM's attach to 3 distinctly different colored polyps, orange, red and canary yellow, and yes, they were all named Bam Bam's.

I've seen the a dirty green paly being sold as a popular green paly which is sold for $ 50 a polyp that everyone has to have. Only problem was what they received, a common green $ 2 a polyp paly that you are told will color up someday. To this day, I buy what I like and not according to its name. I was in Florida earlier this year and I stopped by a well known store with a great rep by many. I pretended not to know a thing about prices, names and polyp keeping. The first thing I was told was the name and that it was a limited edition polyp ( LE ) and that I should jump on it right away. I was told they were the only ones anywhere who had this polyp. The price $ 45 per polyp. He said I could buy it and carry it back on the plane or they could ship it back to Michigan. We entertained him with our ears for a full 10 to 15 minutes as he gave us a litany of stories on how rare his stuff was. There wasn't a single rare polyp in his many tanks that was rare, there is no such thing as limited editions of which he mentioned many times. He even told me that a well known person who uses his name to sell corals had just release a few corals that went "Limited Edition" and only a few will ever own them, LOL. I can only imagine how many reefers have been sold by this very catchy marketing invitation. LE needs to be replced with LS, LIMITED SUPPLY. The ocean doesn't produce just a few polyps for one guy and one guy only so he can sell them to you. Limited Edition is a marketing tool which excites and promotes you to buy, QUICKLY. He was willing to sell me all of these high priced polyps, all glued to a white frag plug. They were mostly freshly cut and glued frags which showed no frag plug discoloration. There was no pink coralline algae, not a speck of remote nuisance algae fiber in the smallest form, no tissue growing onto the frag disc which shows that the polyp was attached weeks ago, nothing. Noy even a slight discoloration of the plug surface. This was a freshly cut and glued frag as many were which gave it a slim chance of survival in transit. Little did this seller know that he lost me and my buddy the very moment he mentioned their names and the words, LIMITED EDITION ( LE ). So many sales are being lost due to the very mentioning of these terms, yet an equal number of unsuspecting reefers, new and old alike, give in to it.
Totally. And these are just the incidences we hear about or in your case, see. We can imagine the many more others who get shilled and taken and are too embarassed to say anything. Aw man.




This sight has something for everyone. I don't believe in public attacks here. As a Team RC member, I will defend anyone’s right to say whatever they want as long as they aren't rude, disrespectful, offensive and flaming. Though I may not agree, everyone has their right to like and dislike what they want and involve themselves with in the zoanthid forum. If you want to refer to something by name, then you should feel free to do so. It's true; some will say “it’s a pink paly, that's all you need to know ". Usually it is someone who dislikes names and is just making their opinion known. I'm not going to say either way if you are or aren't promoting the name game. Just be yourself and have fun no matter what the name or if they have one.

Yeah, I can appreciate that have no problem with that. I would do the same thing if I'd heard and experienced that for months or years of hearing it, and knowing where it's ultimately going to lead.




I have attended more swaps than I can remember for years. We never used names. We used pictures and detailed descriptions and it worked very well. It's ironic that the naming intervention coincided with prices going through the roof and per polyp sales. This is why so many are against names. If the prices stayed the same or revert back to what they were, you'd see a major shift towards the acceptance of names. These polyps are so vast in colors, patterns, striation etc, we've yet to remotely see what the oceans have to offer. Only 10 % to 25 % of the oceans of the world have been explored. Can you begin to imagine the realm of zoanthid and palythoa possibilities which have yet to be discovered?
That makes sense. Last night as I was falling asleep my mind was wandering and I was thinking for a brief moment "well, I think pictures would've been the way, and should be the way inwhich past and future coral traders, coral swappers, or even questioners of a particular zoa, communicate with. For sooo many good reasons.
Hey check it out, tonight I was looking at a cool diy thread here on the R.C. forum. I always start at the top of build threads to see the tank stats like we all do and I was reading the list of livestock of the person's tank and I thought "Oh wow, we were just talking about this on the zoa section I gotta copy and past this in that thread in the zoa section." Oh before i post it, I'll ask you all to notice, these descriptions are not just for the zoanthids (ducks tomatoes thrown from the sps and lps people). :
• Green w/ brown skirt Zoanthids
• Red Ring Zoanthids
• Fire & Ice Zoanthids
• Pink Mouth Red Skirt Zoanthids
• Orange Mouth Green Skirt Zoanthids
• Green Mouth Green Skirt Zoanthids
• Yellow w/ purple mouth Zoanthids
• Yellow Mouth Green Skirt Zoanthids
• All Green Zoanthids
• Red w/ Purple Mouth Zoanthids
• Bubble Gun Zoanthids
• Green w/ Yellow Skirt Zoanthids
• Orange w. Yellow Mouth Zoanthids
• Green Polyp Toadstool Leather
• Orange w. Blue center Candy Cane
• Purple w/ Blue center Candy Cane
• Neon Yellow Candy Cane
• Green/Purple Hammer
• Yellow Tip Torch
• Green/Purple Frogspawn
• Puple/Blue Acan
• Neon Green Acan
• Green/Red Acan Lord
• Peppermint Acan Lord
• Orange Enchinada
• Rainbow Enchinada
• Puple Blue Micromusa
• Tri Color Acan
• Blue Mushrooms
• Green Stripe Mushrooms
• Tri Color Ricordia Yuma
• Green Florida Ricordia






Never ask me to reply, I'm long winded, LOL,LOL, sorry.

Good luck with the new system.

Mucho Reef

lol, I'm feeling ya. We're certainly a couple of chatty types.
I was going to mention something else that I found interesteg about zoas... and now I can't remember what it was, but when and if I do remember, I'll give everyone's glazed eyes a break and pm you. :lol:
Nighty night, and thanks again.

[MUCHO REEF]

No problem.

Wow, what a list.

I have a great respect and admiration for you taking the time to read, ask questions and explore before taking the plunge. This is a very smart move you are making. There is so much more to reefing than just buying all the components and filling the tank with water and corals. This is not a hobby you want to jump into overnight. Have you purchased any books to keep as reference material or just to learn from? I would also recommend doing as many searches as possible here on a variety of topics. There are a lot of very talented and experienced reefers in this forum who have an awful lot of valuable information to share. Please do not start out buying any expensive corals, start slow and acclimate yourself to the routines of daily reefing. If you find that it is a chore, this isn't the hobby you want to be in. The best way that I can describe my relationship with my tank is this. It's like a baby, it needs to be cleaned, cared for, monitored, not left alone for long periods of time, you need to spend some time with it and most of all, know what makes your tank happy and what doesn't make it happy.

No need to go PM, maybe others are benefiting from our exchange or want to add something to it. Maybe someone wants to share their opinion on the original topic, Exotic Zoa Pricing.


Mucho

[specialreef]

Tag along.

[IridescentLily]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13386169#post13386169 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MUCHO REEF
No problem.

Wow, what a list.
Yes, I liked how the person lists each coral by a combination of scientific name, common name, and the color of it, and that's it. It's simple but still descriptive to me so I could get a good idea of which one he was talking about in his fts.


I have a great respect and admiration for you taking the time to read, ask questions and explore before taking the plunge. This is a very smart move you are making.
There is so much more to reefing than just buying all the components and filling the tank with water and corals. This is not a hobby you want to jump into overnight. Have you purchased any books to keep as reference material or just to learn from? I would also recommend doing as many searches as possible here on a variety of topics. There are a lot of very talented and experienced reefers in this forum who have an awful lot of valuable information to share. Please do not start out buying any expensive corals, start slow and acclimate yourself to the routines of daily reefing. If you find that it is a chore, this isn't the hobby you want to be in. The best way that I can describe my relationship with my tank is this. It's like a baby, it needs to be cleaned, cared for, monitored, not left alone for long periods of time, you need to spend some time with it and most of all, know what makes your tank happy and what doesn't make it happy.
Thanks Mucho. Yes, I'm reading Dr. Borneman's "Corals" book for the third time. Each time I read it I learn something new or put things together about the reef aquarium as a whole. And I have a couple of J. Sprung's books that I also read constantly lol. Things I've read about on the forum here, about lighting for instance, begin to make more sense each time I read the books. As I learn more about zoanthids and reef animals in general, what Dr. Borneman references in his book makes more and more sense. Both books are good for coral species reference and for learning about the entirety of reefkeeping in general, zoas just being part and parcel of the whole thing.
And I also read everything I can here on the rc forum. Mostly the general section, the builds, zoas, other corlamorphians, lps, sps, vendors, the NM reef club section, and the "new to reefkeeping" section. I had sw fish only tank for eight years or so and I had no idea that the few live rocks I had in it did anything (Doh). I was lucky as the husband of my best friend at the time, worked at the local fts so they were a big help with my initial setup. I also read many books about sw fish husbandry, etc.
I enjoyed it immensely. I stopped keeping any tanks after that because of moving to a new house, having my kids, having a busy career, etc.
Though I did slack off on my tank's husbandry once or twice in those eight years, I was very devoted. Everything about it seemed enjoyable, fascinating, and relaxing to me. I had previously been scuba certified and after that I was a changed woman. :D But I've always just been kind of crazy about the ocean, and water in general. This is frusrating at times considering i live in the desert. :lol: Anyway, now that things are less crazy in my life, the reef animal aquarium desire popped up again. A proper reef with the various reef animals/corals is what I'm saving for now so I need to learn alot.
Initially I was going to go with a larger custom tank, but now I'm thinking of going with a smaller tank, just incase. I'm being overly cautious probably, but I don't want to disregard expense, not be able to keep anything and be discouraged or wasteful. So I thought "well, I'll just learn on a smaller tank first and if i'm successful, then i can shell out for the larger setup." I want to buy the best skimmer, pumps, lights, etc that I can possibly buy beforehand. Equipment that is somewhat scaleable so that I can use on a larger tank if need be later. While at the same time I'm going to keep the gadgets simple, not so advanced. I figure that way I can concentrate on the animals and not so much on the learning and maintenance part of all the "nice to have" extraneous equipment.
My goodness I'm chatty this evening, but anyway yes the next thing I have to read up about on the forum is feeding of the various types of corals, not only zoas but other stuff. But I'm not going to study feeding until I've got the other pieces of reefkeeping fully understood.

[ZOAKEEPER]

This is fun and interesting, The most I've been in this Forum in years. You two need to stop, your making me start to care again. This is great, the more people are aware the better. You guys are making me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

[IridescentLily]

Uh oh, five line rule. Zoakeeper methinks I broke a forum rule. Embarassingly, it wouldn't be the first time since I've registered on the forum here. lol good grief. But each of the moderators have been very patient with me, explaining things, etc. :o
Is it five quotes or five posts in a row. omg, I don't wanna bogart the thread. :lol:
Or...it's possible that you're joking and I'm being a dork. It's late, on a Friday no less, be kind. :rollface:
And getting back to topic quick....
I remembered what I was going to mention earlier which is reef lighting. I believe I've finally come to a place where I understand reef lighting, the technology but also the basics of photosynthesis in corals. From reading various recommendations on the lighting section here on RC, I also enjoy read Sanjay Joshi's site now and again, for par ratings in bulbs and enjoy the data he's gathered. Lighting was the first thing on my list to learn more in depth of late because it was the most interesting to me. Even when i was maintaining sw fo in my tank lighting was one of the primary interests to me.
I had a pretty spankin' lighting setup for fish only with one anemone. :lol: cart<<<horse <-------
But anyway, thusfar lighting, tangs, centropyges and water chemistry are the only things with which I can speak on with any experiential knowledge. The creative side of me is interested in the aquascaping aspect of reef aquariums. Whenever we have tv watching time what I've been doing lately is drawing different kinds of aquascaping in order to decide on what i'd eventually want it to be like. I do know that I definitely want something other than a dsb. Not a bare bottom tank. I want a shallow sand bed. And perhaps compensate for that with a dsb in-refugium, something of that nature.

How has your experience been with reefkeeping and/or zoanthid keeping in particular Zoakeeper?
What are you maintaining currently?

[flyyyguy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13388152#post13388152 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by IridescentLily
Uh oh, five line rule. Zoakeeper methinks I broke a forum rule. Embarassingly, it wouldn't be the first time


http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h181/flyyyguy/smilies/blah.gif


:D just kidding

Ya know, if you keep up all this research and paying attention before you get a tank you are going to knwo way too much just starting out. You wont get to enjoy as many growing pains and heartaches as most of us went through becuase we didnt have a clue, but had tanks loaded with life. lol

so get a tank already....geesh

[IridescentLily]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13386358#post13386358 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by specialreef
Tag along.
Hello there, how's it going. Please feel free to join in. Are you new to the hobby also or have you been keeping corals or fish for awhile.

[IridescentLily]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13388185#post13388185 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by flyyyguy
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h181/flyyyguy/smilies/blah.gif


:D just kidding

Ya know, if you keep up all this research and paying attention before you get a tank you are going to knwo way too much just starting out. You wont get to enjoy as many growing pains and heartaches as most of us went through becuase we didnt have a clue, but had tanks loaded with life. lol

so get a tank already....geesh

Oh lol Flyyyguy, I missed this the first time we posted at the same time frame.
You know, seriously, you guys (and fellow gals!) need to help me with how to slide this future expense by the husband. :rollface:
Yeah right I keep reading all over the rc forum that the female is in charge.
Apparently I missed that meeting.
lol. When I had my career I never really cared to save money, let's just put it that way. And since I decided to leave the retarded corporate world, i've been so good budget-wise during this whole year of having no job.
It must have had something to do with having no money. :p
My husband is very intelligent (i'm a geek, and hence a sucker for geek gurus). The down side to that is he absolutely knows that if i have no extra money from his kind heart during this transition, I won't spend it.
*kicks ground*
But soon I will have funding. (heh heh)
So, give a gal some hints into the dude mind. He knows I have the reef bug. So that part is done.
And to see how warm or cold the waters were, the other day I tested him. After picking up the twins from school, he drove up into the driveway at home at the same time. So I whispered into my six year old's ear "let's play a joke on daddy, when you got out of the car say daddy mommy bought an aquarium, yay!"
If his response was any indication, I need some help from you men here. :rollface:
Okay, you respond to that one, I'm going to go post another request to seapug for an fts. And I'm also going to test the above mentioned zoanthid description types while i'm in Seapug's thread by asking him about a particular zoanthid that I adore from his tank photos.
I also mentioned that particular zoanthid that Seapug has on the "your 3 top zoas/palys" thread in this section. You might want to take a look at that thread too Flyyyguy. And yes, this time I am looking for the more popular name if you please. :p

[MUCHO REEF]

Any comments on this topic? , "exotic zoo pricing " hint hint :sleep:

[ZOAKEEPER]

I've taken this qoute from an article from Reefs Magazine. The editors were interviewing Dr. Sanjay Joshi. I felt it fit into this discussion on exotic zoa pricing. The statement can be applied throughout the saltwater hobby. How many pictures of large zoa colonies do you see anymore?


RM: Anything you are not happy about?

SJ: We’ll I’m not so into the designer coral craze. Not that they aren’t beautiful, and not that I don’t have many pieces that would fall into that category. It just seems that the collector mentality gets in the way of people letting the colonies grow. It kind of makes the hobby operate at the frag level. I like nice big colonies {smiles and gestures to the large reef behind him}

[IridescentLily]

Yes! I'm glad you brought that up Zoakeeper! I see alot of fellow newer reef people purchasing one polyp, three polyps, over and over.
Sometimes when someone posta a pic in here who has a decent sized colony of zoas, some newcomers post "Wow!".
Someone posted the other day "Wow, I need to be patient don't I." after seeing a person's pic of his tank with zoanthids. And I thought "Right on, now that person's got the right way of looking at it", and it was from seeing a pic of a zoanthid colony or three.
I think it's good to have colony pics, not just macros of individual polyps, even though we need macros too. Further away, full frontal tank shots, and colony shots show what we're really striving to create here.
Alas, it's hard to buy a colony when the trend is to buy a "Limited Edition zoa polyp X", and a "Rare Zoo Polyp X" for 50 bucks a piece.
If we think about it, the same money would be able to buy a larger colony of polyps that one can color up and grow themselves. It would be hard shopping for zoas, I would tend to want to purchase both kinds of things. But I would want to have a colony, not a bunch of frags. But...at the same time, a zoanthid keeper has to start somewhere, right? A conundrum certainly. *headdesk*

[ZOAKEEPER]

I guess this will never really come to a resolve as long as some websites continue to abuse the merchant looking for an individual product. In this case our zoanthids. Alot of websites have come about just within the past few years. Many using zoa's as there base. Some have switched to full blown reef sites relizing theres money to be made. God Bless. And it will continue until enough people come to the conclusion that enough is enough and just start to support there local saltwater store or build a base of contacts like here at R/C. With that we can continue to purchase and swap from hobbiest and control exorbant pricing. Many of the web site owners are here and on other sites and regularly will buy the "special" zoas, just to sell them higher later. Thats business right? Many of the older sites (AL,WWM) have gone by the wayside with the surge of these upstart websites. But they along with R/C have a core of values that will continue to bring knowledge to reefers, and hopefully that knowledge will bring pricing into a range that will help us continue to enjoy our hobby.