will i be able to grow sps under t5 ?

[new_world_disor]

recently set up a 4 foot tank thats shallow around 16" i have a 250w mh unit at the mo. but its only a 2 foot unit. sooo i want to get something b igger . 4 foot twin 150's, but at around £600 its madness.... i can get a 4 foot arcadia t5 unit, with 4 x 54wt t5's . will this be enough to keep sps and get goodish growth ??

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[crvz]

absolutely. I've been using them for years now and have mostly SPS in my tank. if that fixture has individual reflectors, you should do well. how wide (front to back) is the tank?

[nu2reefva]

yes, you can keep very nice SPS under T5 but unless you keep them in a shallow tank or twords the top they wont get much growth. In my opinion T5s are great because they do not produce near the heat of MH's but they also do not have the penetrating power of MH's.

[new_world_disor]

kool. the tank is about 15" high i think and around 2.5 front to back, i have a tank thread sumwhere.
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[Tang Salad]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13247158#post13247158 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by nu2reefva
In my opinion T5s are great because they do not produce near the heat of MH's.
Just for the record, T5s do NOT produce less (watt for watt) heat.

But I think with that shallow a tank, you'll be fine with T5. Just make sure the fixture has seperate reflectors for each bulb.

[CeeGee]

not trying to be a smart @** but does anyone who gives these answers actually run T5's? I have bleached a maze brain that was on the bottom of my tank using T5's. They are just as strong as halides and can easily do the same damage if you don't acclimate your corals properly to them. Look at last July's tank of the month and see how a tank full of SPS can fare under T5's.

[Tang Salad]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13247518#post13247518 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by CeeGee
not trying to be a smart @** but does anyone who gives these answers actually run T5's?
Not sure who this was directed to, but it seems we're all in agreement here.

[Rendos]

I run nothing but T5's on my 240. It is a mixed reef with SPS, clams, LPS, zoos, mushrooms, etc. Nothing in my tank is bleached. Here is a picture of the tank.
There are 10 54 watt T5's over the tank...it is 48"x48"x24".

http://fishman.smugmug.com/photos/358080553_MbUgp-XL.jpg

[dzhuo]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13247664#post13247664 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rendos
I run nothing but T5's on my 240. It is a mixed reef with SPS, clams, LPS, zoos, mushrooms, etc. Nothing in my tank is bleached. Here is a picture of the tank.
There are 10 54 watt T5's over the tank...it is 48"x48"x24".

http://fishman.smugmug.com/photos/358080553_MbUgp-XL.jpg

which t5 setup you are using? it covers the whole 48"x48" area with a single t5 unit?

[SeaMonsters]

I like Halides. They look and feel like the sun! and in the winter, they prevent your heaters from running 24/7 which saves you money on your utility bill :)

[abulgin]

I think it's 6 to one, half dozen to the other. Both have their pros and cons. If your fixture has individual reflectors and you use 4 daylight bulbs rather than 2 daylights and 2 actinics, you will be fine. I question whether you could keep SPS healthy with just 2 daylight bulbs even on a 15" deep tank.

[barnett8]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13249873#post13249873 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by abulgin
I think it's 6 to one, half dozen to the other. Both have their pros and cons. If your fixture has individual reflectors and you use 4 daylight bulbs rather than 2 daylights and 2 actinics, you will be fine. I question whether you could keep SPS healthy with just 2 daylight bulbs even on a 15" deep tank.

There is a discussion going on right now here (http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=13215829#post13215829) and here (http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1458071) as to how heavily weighted different spectrum bulbs are. (e.g. can you grow corals under only actinics.) IMO intensity is important, not spectrum.

[CeeGee]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13247618#post13247618 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Tang Salad
Not sure who this was directed to, but it seems we're all in agreement here.

it was directed at the statements about having tho run T5's on a shallow tank. That is not the case at all. It makes it sound as if one has to have a tank depth of 15" or less in order to be sucessful with T5's. Also the statements that all acro's will have to be at the top of the tank in order to grow under T5's. These statements don't hold water (bad pun) and if you actually ran T5's you would know this.

Look at Iwan's tank and check out July's TOTM. In the near future watch the results of SunnyX.

[PrangeWay]

At 16" depth with a nomral t5 setup you should be able to grow any SPS or Clam at any depth. You will bleach and kill probably any LPS or Softie that goes in the tank.

I've had good results with t5's and Maxima's and SPS at 20", I did have a little bit of problem at 24" and a Crocea, but once he got up to about 20" was great.


PW

[chris.hampton]

I don't have any sps but I do have a 6x54w Blau unit on my 24 inch deep tank. I can't say if it will be good enough but it seems bright to me!! I do hope to have clams soon though but that's something I will have to read up on!!

[hahnmeister]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13249725#post13249725 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SeaMonsters
I like Halides. They look and feel like the sun! and in the winter, they prevent your heaters from running 24/7 which saves you money on your utility bill :)

Myth #1 ^^^: Truth: A T5 array will penetrate deeper than halides. The reason is that a more spread out EM/light field will travel further than a more concentrated one. If you have two light sources giving off the same amount of light, and one is spread out across a 1x1 square, and the other a 4x4 square, the 4x4 one will travel further before the inverse square law even applies, and it will still travel further.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13247158#post13247158 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by nu2reefva
yes, you can keep very nice SPS under T5 but unless you keep them in a shallow tank or twords the top they wont get much growth. In my opinion T5s are great because they do not produce near the heat of MH's but they also do not have the penetrating power of MH's.

Myth #2 ^^^: Truth: 250 watts of halide and 250 watts of T5 make just as much heat. Also, from above, you can see that the assumption that T5's dont have the 'penetrating power' of halides is a myth as well. If anything, as some would tell you, you might opt for a taller tank with T5s so you dont fry your brain corals on the bottom.

These are EM fields people, not bullets! What would seem like logic here doesnt hold true. Yes, the bigger, more concentrated bullet carries further... but EM fields are not physical objects in motion. When you see a radar dish, they get bigger and bigger as they want to communicate further and further away, sometimes without a significant boost in power... just a larger dish. A great example would be how people put small dishes on their wireless routers, and simply from that they can get a range of many miles with nothing more than a dish. Its also why lumenarc style reflectors are more effective at lighting a reef than say... a smaller PFO mini or Reef Optix3 style pendant... the more spread out the light source, the better the light will travel.

THE ONLY ADVANTAGE THAT HALIDES HAVE OVER T5's IS THE SHIMMER... and I wouldnt go on to say that this means they are the more natural light source either. T5's, with their more spread out light source and parallel rays entering the water are more natural. The sun is a point source, but considering how far away it is, the rays from it are nearly parallel at the earth where a halide tends to send out its rays in a spherical/radial pattern... from the sides, the light might be coming out at 45 degrees, from below its coming out perpendicular, etc.... but the light is hardly like the sun. All the light from the sun is travelling in parallel when it reaches the earth, more like a T5 array. As for the shimmer, it is actually due to the halide being more of a point source of light, and actually an indication of its inferior penetration in water or air (less spread). With halides, this shimmer is more of a strobe light flicker anyways... much too high of a frequency and short in wavelength to be considered anything like what you see in nature. The only light source that may be able to replicate that in the near future will be LED's, by actually having the shimmer done at the source.

[Jessy.]

I've got an 8 bulb T5 fixture that I used first on my 90 gallon tank (24" tall) and I only ever turned on 4 of the 8 bulbs. I grew sps, clams, everything you can think of in that tank. Loved it.

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h114/JessyCat77/Tank%206_1/CRW_3169.jpg

I've upgraded to a 150 (48x30 F to Bx 24) and use the 8 blubs for about 4 hours a day and then leave them off the rest of the cycle. I love T5's and will never stop using them. They DO produce less heat than MH...I've never had to run a chiller once on my tank and my lights are kept very low to the surface.

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h114/JessyCat77/CRW_3477.jpg

[hahnmeister]

Well, you are using less watts... thats why they are cooler.

[Jessy.]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13253692#post13253692 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
Well, you are using less watts... thats why they are cooler.

OK, well run 8x54w (432W) of MH over a 150 for 4 hours a day and tell me how much you have a temp rise in your tank. Mine is minimal. Tank stays under or about 79. I think you'll need a chiller.

[hahnmeister]

I can do that. To be fair, your T5s most likely have a fan as well? FWIW, if you dont have a fan, you can actually have more heat problems with T5s than halides because they create a pocket across the surface of the water that hot air can get trapped. So much of the advantage of T5s comes from the fans that usually get used. If you get ducted halide pendants and use them to suck the hot air out (out of the entire room maybe), you will only have the radiation of the light itself left to heat the tank. So if you find your tank is heating up more, then it also means you are getting more light (since light is converted to heat when it hits a surface that absorbs it). A single halide hanging up high has less of a chance to convect hot air across the water surface... but with fans on either system, the only heat that can be compared is the actual light (UV+IR too, but these are pretty similar for both). We are just talking about radiation, AKA light that heats the water... so less heat would also mean less light. A less efficient lighting technology, say, PC's of the same wattage, would heat the water even less... because they radiate less light and convect/conduct more heat (away from the tank usually). Now, if you have an enclosed hood or room that this heat builds up in... thats a different story... but still... 200 watts is 200 watts... both will heat up the room with just as much energy... if light, heat, or whatever. But to compare this would be the same as say... running a tank with a chiller in an enclosed room... the chiller would simply heat the room that much more, taking it from the tank water, but having to work that much harder because its also heating the room... so kind of pointless.

[CeeGee]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13253611#post13253611 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by JessyCat77
I've got an 8 bulb T5 fixture that I used first on my 90 gallon tank (24" tall) and I only ever turned on 4 of the 8 bulbs. I grew sps, clams, everything you can think of in that tank. Loved it.

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h114/JessyCat77/Tank%206_1/CRW_3169.jpg

I've upgraded to a 150 (48x30 F to Bx 24) and use the 8 blubs for about 4 hours a day and then leave them off the rest of the cycle. I love T5's and will never stop using them. They DO produce less heat than MH...I've never had to run a chiller once on my tank and my lights are kept very low to the surface.

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h114/JessyCat77/CRW_3477.jpg


:eek2: nice tanks!

[Jessy.]

Nope no fan or any venting of any kind. My room was a little 9'x10' room with not much airflow at all. I had a little 24 gal aquapod before with a 70W MH and that thing made the room hotter than 200W+ of T5's...

Have you ever actually USED T5's on a tank??? or are you just talking?

And I'm outta here. Hope my input helped out the OP.
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13256065#post13256065 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
I can do that. To be fair, your T5s most likely have a fan as well? FWIW, if you dont have a fan, you can actually have more heat problems with T5s than halides because they create a pocket across the surface of the water that hot air can get trapped. So much of the advantage of T5s comes from the fans that usually get used. If you get ducted halide pendants and use them to suck the hot air out (out of the entire room maybe), you will only have the radiation of the light itself left to heat the tank. So if you find your tank is heating up more, then it also means you are getting more light (since light is converted to heat when it hits a surface that absorbs it). A single halide hanging up high has less of a chance to convect hot air across the water surface... but with fans on either system, the only heat that can be compared is the actual light (UV+IR too, but these are pretty similar for both). We are just talking about radiation, AKA light that heats the water... so less heat would also mean less light. A less efficient lighting technology, say, PC's of the same wattage, would heat the water even less... because they radiate less light and convect/conduct more heat (away from the tank usually). Now, if you have an enclosed hood or room that this heat builds up in... thats a different story... but still... 200 watts is 200 watts... both will heat up the room with just as much energy... if light, heat, or whatever. But to compare this would be the same as say... running a tank with a chiller in an enclosed room... the chiller would simply heat the room that much more, taking it from the tank water, but having to work that much harder because its also heating the room... so kind of pointless.

[Tswifty]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13247158#post13247158 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by nu2reefva
yes, you can keep very nice SPS under T5 but unless you keep them in a shallow tank or twords the top they wont get much growth. In my opinion T5s are great because they do not produce near the heat of MH's but they also do not have the penetrating power of MH's.
err... wrong. complete myth.

I'm using the IceCap VHO retrofits with SLR reflectors, and posting very good growth in my SPS at ALL levels of the tank thus far. ;)

Tank is a 90g (24" deep)

[tsouth]

Click my red house. My tank is 48x18wx16h which is exactly what you wanted right? 6x54w t5ho's from reefgeek. You shouldn't have a problem growing anything at any depth. With the right spectrum and bulb combination, you have an endless amount of sps corals to put in your tank. About the heat issue, I decided to unplug my heater just to see how my tank does without one. I live in Florida where our summers reach 100+ degrees and the tank is upstairs therefore catching all the heat that is rising throughout the house. My ac is programmed to run at 76 degrees and at night the tank goes down to 75 and up to 78 during peak hours when all 6 bulbs are on from 12-4pm. So a 3 degree rise in temperature isn't too damn bad imho but I have never run halides so I cannot compare. I am not dissing halides either so don't take this the wrong way folks. Honestly I don't think you can go wrong with either. They're both top of the line for what its worth and to be staright to the point, you can grow sps just as successfully as halide.

[styndall]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13256065#post13256065 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
I can do that. To be fair, your T5s most likely have a fan as well? FWIW, if you dont have a fan, you can actually have more heat problems with T5s than halides because they create a pocket across the surface of the water that hot air can get trapped. So much of the advantage of T5s comes from the fans that usually get used. If you get ducted halide pendants and use them to suck the hot air out (out of the entire room maybe), you will only have the radiation of the light itself left to heat the tank. So if you find your tank is heating up more, then it also means you are getting more light (since light is converted to heat when it hits a surface that absorbs it). A single halide hanging up high has less of a chance to convect hot air across the water surface... but with fans on either system, the only heat that can be compared is the actual light (UV+IR too, but these are pretty similar for both). We are just talking about radiation, AKA light that heats the water... so less heat would also mean less light. A less efficient lighting technology, say, PC's of the same wattage, would heat the water even less... because they radiate less light and convect/conduct more heat (away from the tank usually). Now, if you have an enclosed hood or room that this heat builds up in... thats a different story... but still... 200 watts is 200 watts... both will heat up the room with just as much energy... if light, heat, or whatever. But to compare this would be the same as say... running a tank with a chiller in an enclosed room... the chiller would simply heat the room that much more, taking it from the tank water, but having to work that much harder because its also heating the room... so kind of pointless.

Good grief. Equivalent wattage of T5 and halides will the universe the same amount, not the room, unless you've got some incredibly futuristic insulation installed. This is not to claim that T5s are cooler, indeed, some halide fixtures are more efficient at producing light than some T5s, and vice versa, but rather that luminous efficiencies are different with different fixture types, and you'll see different amounts of tank heat with different fixtures.

[hahnmeister]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13256788#post13256788 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by JessyCat77
Nope no fan or any venting of any kind. My room was a little 9'x10' room with not much airflow at all. I had a little 24 gal aquapod before with a 70W MH and that thing made the room hotter than 200W+ of T5's...

Have you ever actually USED T5's on a tank??? or are you just talking?

And I'm outta here. Hope my input helped out the OP.

I have used T5s on 3 tanks now. First a 4x54watt array over a 40L, then a 6x39 watt Tek over a 40B, then supplimental 4x54watt T5s to go with halide on my 48x30x21H tank, and then I made a 10x54 watt fixture for that same tank. I am very familiar with lighting technology... enough to know when others are stating things that are impossible according to the laws of physics. I actually had worse heat problems with the 6x39wattT5s over a 40B than I did with having a 250wattDE pendant over it, because the pendant was able to convect more of its own heat away from the tank than the T5 lit tank. Once I added a crossflow fan to the Tek light, the heat was no longer a problem, but this is something people often overlook... halides and T5s will heat up the tank the same per watt, but HOW those technologies are applied is often what makes the difference. If you run ducted fixtures for halide, you would be amazed how cool they can be as well.

It is physically impossible for a 70 watt halide to heat a room more than 200+ watts of T5s. It would go against the first law of thermodynamics.

[hahnmeister]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13257184#post13257184 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by styndall
Good grief. Equivalent wattage of T5 and halides will the universe the same amount, not the room, unless you've got some incredibly futuristic insulation installed. This is not to claim that T5s are cooler, indeed, some halide fixtures are more efficient at producing light than some T5s, and vice versa, but rather that luminous efficiencies are different with different fixture types, and you'll see different amounts of tank heat with different fixtures.

What? Can you rephrase that in English please?

[Rendos]

I have a 48" TEK light - 4x54 watts, and a 48" TEK light 6x54 watts running over the 240 cube.

[Rendos]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13249664#post13249664 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dzhuo
which t5 setup you are using? it covers the whole 48"x48" area with a single t5 unit?

I have a 48" TEK light - 4x54 watts, and a 48" TEK light 6x54 watts running over the 240 cube.

[dzhuo]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13257582#post13257582 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rendos
I have a 48" TEK light - 4x54 watts, and a 48" TEK light 6x54 watts running over the 240 cube.

do you feel like it covers the entire 48"x48" area? or do you feel like there are area it doesn't reach?

[SeaHorseTim]

Clearly opinions stretch everywhere. Hopefully, the OP has a local reef club that will let him look at a few tanks, since there isn't anything even remotely resembling a consensus here.

Also, while there is a lot of talk about heat, I don't use lights to heat or cool my tank. I have heaters and chillers for those things. i use lights to light my tank, so when i talk about light, I try to focus on the lighting properties. And t5's provide outstanding light, both in practice and on paper.

but it has been entertaining to read this thread. Thanks for the laughs.