want to build a closed loop manifold

[SharkBait_Mtl]

Hello all....

I would like to take the mag12 that I am using from my return and use it for a closed loop system to increase the flow in my tank and remove the powerheads that I have in the DT to make it look more natural.

my question is.... what is the smallest pump that I can use on my return line from the sump/refuge to the DT? I was told that having less flow in the sump/refuge would give me more efficient skimming and that less flow is also better for a refugium.

this is the manifold design that I would like to use, but instead of having it come from the sump/refuge it will have it's own inlet... or should I just keep it running off the sump and leave the flow in the sump as is???


http://www.wetwebmedia.com/pbh2oret.htm

what are the pros and cons???

is there a better manifold that I could build?

any tips would be appreciated...

[rogergolf66]

well in a 90 gallon I would have a turn over to sump of 270gph-450gph

as far as the CL yes you can use the mag 12 that is still not a lot of flow for a 90 gallon though. What are you keeping in the tank?


as far at the manafold yes I would recommend something different then that. you want to have each outlet be its own line for control. that way you will have much less flow if any on the last outlet.

normally it would not be a manafold on top of the tank. the best way is to drill the tank put in a bulk head and then each out let would have its own line to it. also how many outlets do you want to have? I would only have 2 with a mag 12.

Roger

[kenbow19]

The manifold pictured would create very little flow, the mag12 would really only power 2- 3/4" outlets with any real movement at all, hope this helps and for the record i have owned many return pumps including a mag 12.

[SharkBait_Mtl]

what pump would you recommend I use if I wanted 6 outlets (2 front and back, 1 left/right)

I was also told by an employee at the LFS that I can use 1.5" on the return that will feed into a 1" manifold and out 1/2" outlets... that way the pressure will be greater in the manifold and I would not lose pressure on the last outlets. is this right?

[SWINGRRRR]

Is the tank braced in the middle? Instead of going the perimeter of the tank, go the perimeter of the brace. Use 1" pipe to 2x3/4" outlets and have them point outwards to the ends.

[rogergolf66]

6 outlets wow that is alot for that pump. you could put it on an ocean motion 4 way or something to make that work. I wouldn't go with more the 2 outlets with that pump. I am running 1,200 gph through 2 outlets and it really is not that much water. 3/4 outlets by the way.

by the way I understand what you want. I wanted to do it also but it just dosn't work that well like that you would need 2 of those pumps on CL to do anything with 6 outlets. JMO

good luck

[kenbow19]

Water will take the path of least resistance, the first couple of outlets will have some flow then down to nothing, making it a waste of time and material, that is why many use devices like the Oceans Motion to divert all or most of the flow to a single nozzle or two, creating a more random flow.

[kenbow19]

Here is one way that you can accomplish the goal you have in mind. IMO, the scwd will need frequent cleanings and is still likely to fail so a backup should be on hand for replacement, making the OM more desirable in the long run.

http://www.melevsreef.com/closedloop.html

[rogergolf66]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13264576#post13264576 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kenbow19
Here is one way that you can accomplish the goal you have in mind. IMO, the scwd will need frequent cleanings and is still likely to fail so a backup should be on hand for replacement, making the OM more desirable in the long run.

http://www.melevsreef.com/closedloop.html

also they are loud.

[superstein61]

That manifold design will work well - but not with your Mag 12. I built one like that for our 265g tank at school. But we have a very powerful pump on it (A Sequence reeflo barracuda or hammerhead I believe) which we actually have to throttle back a bit. We get excellent flow out of all 10 outlets on our manifold

[SharkBait_Mtl]

I have used a SCWD on my 60g cube... it worked well until it failed...and failed miserably... it got stuck in the mid position and then one of the "arms" cracked causing a flood in my apartment with carpets all over the room... let me tell you my wife was really unimpressed.... and I vow to never use a SCWD again.

as for using the center brace... I guess that would work to bring flow to the front and back of the tank but what about the sides???

I am trying to bring is as much flow into the tank as possible as I have a problem with detrius settling and also a bit of a problem with cyano settling.

I now have 2x koralia 1 and 2x koralia 3 in the tank but I really dont like the look of so many powerheads in the tank.

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l262/bbernesi/tanksetupnew002.jpg

Also I will be upgrading my tank to a minimum of 250-300g inwall within the next year and plan to move the closed loop system to this tank... so buying a bigger pump to do what I need is not a problem.

if someone can draw out a diagram of how I would plumb a 6 outlet manifold (with even pressure out of each outlet) running off 1 pump would be greatly appreciated.

and links to the pump that I need would bre appreciates as well...

thanks in advance to any replies and thanks to all who have replied.

[rogergolf66]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13266039#post13266039 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by superstein61
That manifold design will work well - but not with your Mag 12. I built one like that for our 265g tank at school. But we have a very powerful pump on it (A Sequence reeflo barracuda or hammerhead I believe) which we actually have to throttle back a bit. We get excellent flow out of all 10 outlets on our manifold

agreed with the barricuta pushing over 5,000 gph!!!!

[rogergolf66]

horrable diagrame but made it in 20 seconds use a manifold that each outlet has its own ball valve and a much larger pump. if you are going to a 200 plus gallon use a dart pump as you can use it in your next setup.

Roger

ball valve on each 1/2 inch line.
any questions?
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb173/rogergolf66/File0031.jpg

[SharkBait_Mtl]

thx roger.... that would work but it would probably look like a ratsnest to plump that to the tank after each ball valve....

would this work... using 4 outlets instead of 6... and if this would work what pump should I use... a barracuda??

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l262/bbernesi/manifold.jpg

from what was said water will flow best at the least reisistant... if all was equal, flow should be equal at all outlets.... correct me if I am wrong.

[rogergolf66]

sounds reasonable to me. I would still go with a dart. If you could put that on an ocean mostion 4 way you could use 1 inch outlets and you would get a ton of flow and it would be random!!!

Roger

[rogergolf66]

sorry double post

[SharkBait_Mtl]

I just looked up the ocean motion 4... looks pretty cool.... do you have any experience with it... or know anyone that has???? are they as good as they seem?

http://www.aquacave.com/detail.aspx?ID=1763

[SWINGRRRR]

This is something like what I meant. As if you are looking at your tank from the top down. I'm not sure where you are confuse about front to back and side to side.
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o184/SWINGRRRR/braace.jpg

[SharkBait_Mtl]

swingrrrr... I understand what you meant... it is just that I would like to have outlets around the perimiter of the tank... I want to add flow in every nook and cranny as possible.... placing 2 outlets in the middle facing away from each other will still leave me with "dead spots" in the tank....

[rogergolf66]

Well if you want no dead spots you need to close loop the tank and drill out all your inlets and not use the manifold you are looking at.

by the way yes the ocean motions are as good as they sound. yes I have exsperiance with them and know a dozen people that use them.

Roger

[kenbow19]

I have a closed loop on my 180 with a manifold like Golf66 drew, except i have 1" outlets. I believe the 1/2'' outlets would not be large enough, i do not however have it hooked into a OM, so the flow i get is not sufficient for my SPS tank, i supplement my flow with 2 Tunze 6100's.

[rogergolf66]

if you use an OM I would go with one inch. if you are going to have 6 outlets on one pump going all the time I would go with 1/2 for volocity.

[SharkBait_Mtl]

so if I go 6 outlet @ 1"... I use 1/2" outlets.... If I want more flow can I up that to 1.5" with 1" outlets??? and which pump should I go with... a dart??

If I go with the ocean motion 4 I can have 4 outlets and depending on the model I can have it oscilating... giving me a wavemaker....

I think I may just go with the ocean motion...

roger.... u said that u are experienced with the ocean motion.... does it need regular maintenace like a SCWD?? i.e. does it get stuck when oscilarting like a SCWD??

you also stated...

"Well if you want no dead spots you need to close loop the tank and drill out all your inlets and not use the manifold you are looking at."

I know that going with a closed loop is the way to go but why do I have to drill my inlets??? is there a way to eliminate dead spots without drilling the inlets?

[rogergolf66]

no the OM does not get stuck or need regular cleaning. it works perfect...

Well if you drill the tank you can put the inlets lower in the tank. the dead spots are aways in corners low in the tank. if you are moving water only in the top then you may still have those dead spots

yes the dart!!!