Sun Coral Q's

[Tennyson]

So I've had a huge colony of red sun coral for a while now. 100+ polyps. And it's been doing great.

I've found many little babie's that I assume it releases around the tank many times. They usually never survive as I have never seen the babies live and settle. I once found a big baby floating around, caught it and seperated it to attach to a rock, but it disapeared one time :mad2:

So is there anyway to get these babies to survive and start a new mini colony?
Should I just try to attempt to catch babies I find and try to get them to settle on a rock?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks :D

[dendro982]

You can place some live rock with crevices downflow from main colony, above end below it, within 1 ft. The planula is floating, and will be carried by current, it may be stopped by some obstacle on the way.

Mesh screen right downflow could be another option, or screen tank divider, with mesh size less than 1 mm. But this may impede flow.

If you see the planula and can collect it, it can be screened through 800 microns filter bag and placed into the main tank. Some survivors will attach itself to the mesh, then they can be cut with a piece of bag and blued by bag to the rock. Illustrations of this are here (http://www.defineyourreef.frihost.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=31&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=5). Note, that 250 microns bag clogs very fast and very few babies survive, 800 microns bag may be better.

Another option is to place the main colony as far as possible from outflow (3+ ft, not at the top of the tank), with live rock downflow. Some larvae may settle there.
Here is location of the parental colony, left top 1/3 of the tank (48" long 24" deep):
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g78/dendro982/Soft%20corals/Capnella.jpg
Flow is counterclockwise, provided by 2 Seios, 600 gph each, right on the left and above from the colony, and return line - in opposite end of the tank.
Larvae settled starting from 5" downflow and down, this one is in opposite end of the tank, at the bottom under outflow to the sump:
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g78/dendro982/LPS/Aug02_07sm3.jpg

Babies at the stage of a single polyps are easier to remove (better cut into the rock, with some rock left attached to the sun baby), and avoid drowning it in the super glue. If glue to the live tissue - there will be higher die off. Could be handling, of course. Any way, you will have much more, than you will need, eventually :p
http://thumb1.webshots.net/t/20/20/2/64/54/2034264540081040121sSAHbX_th.jpg (http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2034264540081040121sSAHbX) http://thumb1.webshots.net/t/59/759/7/96/51/2420796510081040121ZvbpQk_th.jpg (http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2420796510081040121ZvbpQk) http://thumb1.webshots.net/t/59/159/6/30/67/2501630670081040121YfpFHB_th.jpg (http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2501630670081040121YfpFHB) http://thumb1.webshots.net/t/58/58/4/29/17/2358429170081040121HoWIhv_th.jpg (http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2358429170081040121HoWIhv)

[Tennyson]

Wow, thanks for all the info. you're always a good help with this stuff-lol.

Just another question, how exactly do they release these little babies? Do they come out of the polyp's mouth or something? Just curious.
And are these 'babies' just a tiny singly polyp? I always just imagined them as part of the base of them that grows out and polyps sprout.

[dendro982]

Mouth is the only opening, that they have :D
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g78/dendro982/LPS/Tubastrea%20babies/Jan14_08spw1.jpg

Planula attaches itself and transforms into the single polyp, being in this stage for a months. Polyp grows in side, and later starts bugging the size polyps around it's base, forming a new colony.

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g78/dendro982/LPS/sunbabiesFeb607e.jpg
Here you can see the single polyp and one of previous generations, that grows the new polyps at its base, encrusting the rock and then growing own skeleton.

Thanks for a kind words, I was in your shoes and am now - with other corals and tank filtration. Trying to facilitate exchange of information, then it will be not necessary to learn from own mistakes ;) . If you will post your findings and observations, some others too - then my mission will be complete.

[Tennyson]

OK, well thanks. I should be all set for now :D

[parkpark]

what do you mean by red sun coral, is it actually red or the above posted color?

[Tennyson]

Oh, that was just the label for it at the store. It's somewhat darker than the pics above, but not too dark. Like an orange.

[parkpark]

oh, ok, I have never seen an actual red one

[dendro982]

There was thread some time ago, Tubastrea color varieties (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=920732).

[parkpark]

that thread is amazing, I wish I could find a red one!

[iamwhatiam52]

While we've got the attention of some experienced Tubastrea keepers, does anyone know if it is true that it is necessary to feed every polyp, or are the individuals in a colony connected and able to share food?

I've asked this before but did not get a definite answer.

[parkpark]

I don't know, everybody gets fed!

[dendro982]

My opinion is here (http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1437251), illustrated.

[Tennyson]

I have the same question, but I think eventually all polyps should be fed, and none should be missed for best health obviously.

but lately I've been having a problem getting the front part of my colony to open up. I think it was from lack of feeding them and only feeding the other polyps that would open quicker. Plus I was away at vacation for a week a long time ago so that really hurt them.
And they keep throwing up whenever I feed an individual polyp 4-6 pieces >:( is this normal?

[EllieSuz]

My Sun Coral wasn't feeding. The tentacles (if that's the right word), stopped closing around the food and the each polyp started to elongate and thin out. I placed the entire coral in a clear deli container and each night after lights out I would pull the container out of the tank and feed each polyp individually. At first they didn't take much without those tentacles guiding the food to the mouth, but eventually they started closing again and now seem to be better nourished and on the mend. Problem is the cleaner shrimp, Blenny and Brittle Star have been picking the food out of the coral about as fast as I can feed it. Has anyone come up with a solution to this?

[Tennyson]

OK, I have piled up a large amount of questions that have been forming in the last week. Prepare yourself lol.

OK
Question #1:
I have no idea why, but this section in the blue, the polyps, they won't extend anywhere near as nice as the others. Some have been extending lately partially, but that has been with many feedings. Nothing bad has happened to that part of the colony, and they used to open long before

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/175285suncoral1.jpg

Question #2:
I think I know the answer to this question, but commonly, some polyps will throw up after I feed 4-6 pieces of mysid. Is it too much for them to eat and they just spit it out?

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/175285suncoral3.jpg

Question #3:

OK, in the blue, in the spot that doesn't extend, the mouths commonly look like this (especially after the colony has been fed). Like, completely gaped open, could these polyps be releasing babies? And be extending their mouths to release them?

In the yellow, whats going on with the tissue there? It shouldn't be melting away, because I've been feeding EVERY DAY for the last week.

In The green, there are these little yellow...stringy balls that form on the skeleton in that section that doesn't extend.

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/175285suncoral2.jpg

Sorry for the huge overload of questions , I guess just write 'question 1' 'question 2' ect before answering so I know which one youre talking about lol.
Thanks!

[Tennyson]

Oh yeah, btw, these pics are right after a small feeding of ONE cube of mysid (I usually do two)

[parkpark]

I don't know, but mine also throws up sometimes, I think its just due to overfeeding

[dendro982]

the polyps, they won't extend anywhere near as nice as the others.
I had seen this on one of my suns, when part of colony was in very high flow or almost no flow.
some polyps will throw up after I feed 4-6 pieces of mysid. Is it too much for them to eat and they just spit it out?
Too much at once. Try give less (2), but more frequently, and see if there will be difference.
Question #3:
This is not good. Try to check ammonia next morning, if you feed in the evening, or hours after feeding.

Another option is particular sensitivity to a food, for me helped switching from chopped grocery seafood to the whole organisms (mysis, some brine, Ocean Plankton). At least for some time, until colony recover and becomes plump-looking.

Last, when I had seen this, it was massive water change after feeding, made by using new salt water, instead of aged from another tank. I counted on bacteria from biomedia to compensate this, but maybe the new water is just harsh. Only 2 corals were affected: T. diaphana (black) and Cladopsammia gracilis, not orange suns.

Colony on photo is in a bad shape, give it time to recover. If possible, more frequent feeding (daily, for at least a week, then every other day).
Cyclop-eeze or Reef Plankton in between puts them in a good mood. If tank is not too deep, feeding by tweezers is the cleanest way. Try to stick mysis to the mouth - even if tentacles are not sticky anymore, mouth will accept food first. If the tank is 24" deep (60 cm) feeding by long plastic forceps is possible, but high risk of bruising coral.

I had tissue, dieing between polyps, when the food was left there for days, without basting out.
HTH

[Tennyson]

Oooeww, sounds really bad. Thanks for the help, the LFS couldn't give me an answer that sounded right.

I'll do everything i can to help. Thanks!

[Tennyson]

Thanks again, I'm working on bring it back to good health.

But about the earlier question, I found a baby!!! Yesturday when I was cleaning the tank, I saw it drifting around and caught it. I never set up your method, cuz I never had time.
So I caught it with a baster, and I had no netting so I just cut up my net, and kinda tied it up in there, it's sticking to it, and is flowing in the flow, is this a good method?

It kind of looks like your pic, with only one in a tighter net space
http://www.defineyourreef.frihost.net/forums/download/file.php?id=179&sid=de2372de12785ac80ceda9477a931d31

[dendro982]

It's planula, it should - if survives - attach itself to substrate. When it becomes a single polyp with skeleton, in 2-3 months it may be detached and glued to the rock. But is could be damaged or drowned in super glue in process. Cutting off piece of mesh and gluing mesh to the rock is safer.

Good luck!

[Tennyson]

Thanks. But I'm unclear on this, I should wait two or three months before gluing the *planula to rock? Is that how long it takes to attach itself to netting?

[dendro982]

These are ~9 days old (9 days since the chili was placed in sun's pico):
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g78/dendro982/LPS/smAug18_06FirstBabies.jpg
They could be removed by fingernail or dull knife, but there is high risk to damage them. I would give them a time to grow - as the single polyps on this photo:
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g78/dendro982/LPS/Aug02_07sm.jpg
the multiple polyps colony is difficult to remove, unless the underlying rock is soft and part of it could be cut of together with colony.

You will see when planula stops floating up in the bag. Baby can be moved in the place with better flow - shallow plastic cup, covered by bridal veil material.
http://thumb1.webshots.net/t/20/20/2/64/54/2034264540081040121sSAHbX_th.jpg (http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2034264540081040121sSAHbX)
Detritus settle there, sun coral incorporates in the base of its body - these were easier to flue, just as soft corals, that attached itself to the sand in the similar cup. Less risk for the coral.
http://thumb1.webshots.net/t/59/759/7/96/51/2420796510081040121ZvbpQk_th.jpg (http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2420796510081040121ZvbpQk) http://thumb1.webshots.net/t/59/159/6/30/67/2501630670081040121YfpFHB_th.jpg (http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2501630670081040121YfpFHB) http://thumb1.webshots.net/t/59/759/1/67/19/2482167190081040121oENIdJ_th.jpg (http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2482167190081040121oENIdJ)

Or, after it attaches to the mesh, cut it with piece of mesh and glue by the mesh. Baby sun will be not in contact with the glue.

[Tennyson]

Just an update on the suncoral, its doing much better and I think I've discovered the problem.

I would overfeed many of the polyps (that would open) and as a result, they would throw it up. Then it would sit in between the heads and rot, which I'm guessing is the cause for the poor health of that section of the suncoral.

So I've been feeding less so that the polyps don't throw up, and they have been looking much better. and the section that wouldn't open is now slowly recovering.