S. Haddoni in Reef?

[orcafood]

I have a 8in or so green S. Haddoni that I recently placed into my 90g mixed reef. I am going to be upgrading to a 180g soon.

I have been told by many to get rid of it because it will eat my fish. Please tell me about your experience with these anemones. Will it be better of in my 180g?

I would hate to loose my fish (and so would my wallet), so do you guys think I should sell/give it away? Would a clown benefit the situation, my occies seem uninterested?

[aww_419]

I would say to get rid of it. I actually started a 40 gal anem tank when i upgraded to reef. I have a white carpet about 9 inches and other anems. If you have coral in your tank the carpet will kill them. depending on the aggression and movement of the anem it will most certainly devour any fish that come in contact with it. Ive had a carpet eat a med. sized clarki before. Even tho it was fed regularly.

[aww_419]

It may take some time but you will notice loss.

[orcafood]

thanks for the reply.
It doesn't move at all.
anyone else with experience?

[aww_419]

s. haddoni are not natural hosts for occies they will pay no attention to the carpet. sorry for the third post I kept noticing things and your post. I kinda have A.D.D.

[ReefNutPA]

Can't tell you to keep it or get rid of it. It depends on how much risk you are willing to take, and if the anemone is important enough for you to take the chance.

With that said, I had a haddoni for a little over 7 years in my 50 gallon. During that time, the carpet made a meal of many fish. From a flame angel, small foxface, cherub angel... to a purple tang (that was housed with it for the entire 7 years) and many less expensive fish. For me, the carpet was the centerpiece of the tank so there was never a thought to get rid of it on my part.

I miss my haddoni, and if I could find a nice small healthy one I'd get one again in a heartbeat.

So, to answer your question..... yes they do have the potential to eat anything that bumps into them accidentally or not. If losing even one of your fish would upset you, then yes... I'd recommend finding it another home or perhaps setting up a tank just for the haddoni and clowns.

Tom

[sms55]

Yes i agree aww420. Ive had my fair share of loss due to a carpet where it didnt belong. If you plan to have coral or med. or small. fish then the haddoni has to go. Theres not a big market for carpets anymore due to there aggression and stinging strength. too dangerous to take the risk. its better to give it away a 50 anem or sell. than to loose $100s. and time

[aww_419]

very well put Tom. I guess every one has there favorite fish and no matter what they just dont have the heart to get rid of them. Which is why i started my Anemone tank. more hassle and a hole in your pocket. but to me it was worth it. that and no more loss in fish. If you start an new tank try to make it a bit larger tho orcafood

[aww_419]

Hey tom, not to get off topic do you now anyone with a Pink or electric green carpet? I saw a site where they have them for sale. and they look incredible but there was no price and all sales are done by phone and with a commercial account. I saw that you where a manager at a LFS. just wondering cuz my local cant order them.

[Toddrtrex]

I currently have 3 haddonis, my oldest being 9+ years old. In all that time I have only lost 2 fish to them -- a watchman goby and a mandarin dragonet. Have kept dwarf angels, larger angels, tangs, and the like with them with no real issues. Of course I very well could just be lucky. Should note that 2 of the 3 host clownfish.

And now I HAVE to post pictures of them. ;)

Tan ( 9+ years old )

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/toddrtrex/Haddoni4_15_08.jpg

Blue ( 2+ years old )

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/toddrtrex/BlueHaddoniflash.jpg

Green ( 6+ months old )

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/toddrtrex/HiddenHaddoni5.jpg

[elegance coral]

I've had my carpet for a number of years. Lost track actually. I haven't lost any fish in several years. Don't plan on it any time soon either. There are steps you can take to reduce the risk of fish getting eaten by a carpet.
1. Don't over stock the tank. The more crowded the
tank becomes, the higher the likelihood that someone will
bump into the carpet.
2. Don't stock aggressive fish or fish that don't get along. A fish
trying to escape another can easily make a wrong turn.
3. Always quarantine all new fish and feed them very well while
in quarantine. Fish that are week, stressed, or ill seem to end
up in the carpet.
4. Startle the carpet, causing it to retreat under its rock, before
placing new fish in the tank. This will give the new guy time
to learn its surroundings before the carpet comes back out.

I have NEVER lost a coral to my haddoni. I don't even think that's a legitimate concern. Once settled in, these anemones rarely move. Mine has moved once the whole time I've had it. That was because the MH went out, and the only light it had for two weeks was PC's. Even when/if they move, they don't move fast. You will have plenty of time to clear a path in front of it.

These are large carnivores like all large anemones. There is always a risk when mixing predator and prey. That doesn't mean we can't drastically reduce that risk. Every fish I lost to my carpet can be contributed to something I did wrong. As long as my fish stay healthy, and I don't do something stupid, I don't believe I will lose any more fish to my carpet.

To answer your questions. I, and many others, believe that resident clowns will help keep fish away from the anemone. Especially if you get large clowns like saddle backs. They may not keep all the fish safe by themselves, but I think they help.

I also think you should keep the anemone. If it is healthy and doing well in your care, passing it off to someone else may be a death sentence for the carpet. To many of these animals get purchased, the owner takes no precautions, and their fish get eaten. Then the anemone gets passed around until someone ends up killing it. These are not the evil blood thirsty animals that attack your fish in their sleep, like some people will have you believe. Fish can learn to live side by side with these anemones without harm.

[aww_419]

hey todd, Yeah i know that sometimes people get lucky but like you said. you have had tangs and large angels. a little harder for them to get sucked into to the carpet anem black hole. by the way great color in that blue carpet. very nice. it is even giving your skunks a blue tint, unless thats the lighting. and it is less likely for a fish to wonder close to an anem that is hosted. especially if there happens to be an aggressive clown in there, such as your clarkis keeping them at bay.

[Toddrtrex]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13330036#post13330036 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by aww_420
hey todd, Yeah i know that sometimes people get lucky but like you said. you have had tangs and large angels. a little harder for them to get sucked into to the carpet anem black hole. by the way great color in that blue carpet. very nice. it is even giving your skunks a blue tint, unless thats the lighting. and it is less likely for a fish to wonder close to an anem that is hosted. especially if there happens to be an aggressive clown in there, such as your clarkis keeping them at bay.

Believe it or not, my Clarkiis are kind of wimps. When I put my purple tang in there, they ran and hid in their Haddoni. And my flame angel likes to tick them off once n a while -- by hanging out by them.

And the skunks are really gentle, my potter's angel seems to like to hang out in that part of the tank, near the skunks and their haddoni. Before my mandarin got eaten, the skunks would gently push it away if it got too close.

Here is the purple tang announcing his presence with authority. ;)

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/toddrtrex/purple-1.jpg

[aww_419]

lol. how come everyone i know with a flame dwarf says that they are jerks. My buddy bought a flame about a month ago. the little guy terrorizes everyone. hes about 1 3/4 to 2 inches. shows the maroon clowns who's boss, all the time.

[1fishkeeper]

I have had a carpet for a few months now and the only down side I have had to is is a powder brown tang. But I put all blame on in and not the carpet. For some reason he would go up to the carpet and bite on it. Of course that tang had to be on crack because I have never seen a fish act the way he did. But I guess my carpet got tired of it and one day it did sting it a good one. When I first seen my tank I thought oh great its got ick but then it turned I seen that it didnt have any spots on the other side of it. Then it keep on making diving runs on the carpet. Well I guess one day while I was at work the carpet said no more that was his spot and he wasnt going to move for the tang. And that was that. I didnt see my tank for a few days and then I seen a few bones show up and then I really knew what happen. All I can say is he had it coming to him.

[orcafood]

So will Toddrtrex's 'tan' anemone ever color up to be more green? Or is that the color it will always be?

[Toddrtrex]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13334316#post13334316 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by orcafood
So will Toddrtrex's 'tan' anemone ever color up to be more green? Or is that the color it will always be?

It has pretty much been that same color for 9+ years.

[orcafood]

Thanks, I was only wondering, that is what mine looks like also.

[phender]

Just a couple things that need to be cleared up.

Although haddoni carpets are not natural ocellaris hosts, there are many people on this list who have had their ocellaris accept haddonis as hosts. (FWIW: ocellaris are notorious for not liking anything except their natural hosts. I had a pair that lived with a BTA that took up half the tank for almost 2 years before they accepted it as a host. 90% of the "my clown won't go in the anemone" post deal with ocellaris that won't go into an unnatural host.)

There is still quite a good market for nicely colored carpet anemones, as the $200 - $700 price tags for blues and reds will attest. The dull colored carpets are still about the same as they always have been. (At least around here)

Haddoni carpets are probably the least likely of all host anemones to bother your corals. They stay on the bottom and tend not to move much compared to other host anemones.

This one doesn't need to be cleared up, just a differing experience; I have never had a clown that chased other fish away from an anemone (except for other clowns). I have had a couple clowns that would grab small fish, snails and hermit crabs and shove them into the anemone. I can't keep any sort of clear up crew for very long in my small haddoni tank. (tank is small, not the carpet)

The bigger your tank, the less problem you will have losing fish to your haddoni.

Grazers (tangs, dwarf angels) are much more likely to be caught than predators (psuedochromis, hawkfish, etc)

There are a lot of people who keep haddonis with minimal fish loss in large tanks, but if you have a one of a kind or really expensive fish, I certainly wouldn't take the chance of keeping it in the same tank as your carpet.

[tufacody]

My occelaris never went into anything until I got the magnifica. When I removed it, they immediately moved over to the haddoni.

[orcafood]

I sold my tan carpet. I was looking at my lfs and there was an electric blue haddoni that was 130$ at about 8 inches. Is that a good price?

[Toddrtrex]

I think that is a very good price, my blue one was more then that,

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/toddrtrex/bluehaddoni.jpg

[Raibaru]

Magnifica the natural host for Oscellaris? And are Magnifica just as notorious for eating fish as the other carpets?

[phender]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13341404#post13341404 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by orcafood
I sold my tan carpet. I was looking at my lfs and there was an electric blue haddoni that was 130$ at about 8 inches. Is that a good price?

I nice blue of that size around here would go for $150-$250. If it is a nice bright blue, I would say thats a good price.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13341538#post13341538 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Raibaru
Magnifica the natural host for Oscellaris? And are Magnifica just as notorious for eating fish as the other carpets?

Magnificas are one of the natural hosts of ocellaris. They are not considered a carpet species and although they have a pretty good sting, I don't think they are known for eating fish. ( At least mine never has and I don't remember hearing any stories that they have.)

[elegance coral]

My Mag ate my yellow tang. ANY large anemone will eat fish if given the chance.
http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/1005/sn852206editedpz0.jpg

[Gary Majchrzak]

note the slime on that Tang. It's being regurgitated by the anemone.

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/1005/sn852206editedpz0.jpg

[orcafood]

For those of you who own magnificas, will they occupy the sand bed like the carpets do? If I wanted to get a natural host for the occelaris, would S. gigenta be a better choice? Are they fish eaters also and do they stay on the sand bed?

[Toddrtrex]

I don't own a mag, but they do not prefer the sand bed. They will be on the rocks, mostly likely the highest point -- to get closer to the lights.

[orcafood]

What about the S. gigentas? Are they sand bed dwelling? Are they notorious fish eaters?

[Toddrtrex]

I believe that giganteas prefer to be on the rocks, compared to a haddoni. Not sure about them eating fish.

[1fishkeeper]

Here is a good little fax sheet to read over.
www.carlosreef.com/AnemoneFAQ.pdf
its a good read and lots of info to take in.

[orcafood]

thanks for all the replies

[phender]

Giganteas, IME, are the most difficult host anemone to keep. They are by far the most difficult species to find a healthy state.

[orcafood]

So how common are colored S. gigantea? That looks like the one I will try.

[orcafood]

well phender I think I will skip on the Gigantea, you convinced me. Maybe I could try H. magnifica?

[elegance coral]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13345554#post13345554 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Gary Majchrzak
note the slime on that Tang. It's being regurgitated by the anemone.

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/1005/sn852206editedpz0.jpg

I'm not sure I understand your point.:confused: I thought it was obvious that the fish was being regurgitated. My point was that the fish had been eaten by the mag. It could not regurgitate something it had not eaten.

[Gary Majchrzak]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13342082#post13342082 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by phender
Magnificas are one of the natural hosts of ocellaris. They are not considered a carpet species and although they have a pretty good sting, I don't think they are known for eating fish. ( At least mine never has and I don't remember hearing any stories that they have.)
I agree totally.
I don't consider that an eaten yellow tang- that's all there was to my post. The fish was captured but not digested.
When haddoni eats a fish it (usually) spits out just the bones.
Haddoni is the fish eating anemone IME.
Don't place any Dragonettes with a haddoni!
I would go as far as to say that S. haddoni can sense fishes around it and (IME) appears to position itself to capture them. I've never witnessed that type of behavior in other anemone species. Perhaps phender has witnessed something similar with haddoni :confused:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-04/totm/images/IMG_1042maybe90090999.jpg
Sarcophyton or Stichodactyla ?
Clownfish will often host in Sarcophyton coral which is a much easier animal to maintain than a carpet anemone.

[orcafood]

Yeah, I am no novice when it comes to anemones, I have had a few Haddonis and btas.
I have a Sacrophyton sp. in my tank (tyree green) yet the occies seem to not like that at all.

Is 130$ for an 8in blue S. Gigantea a good price?

[elegance coral]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13347897#post13347897 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Gary Majchrzak

I don't consider that an eaten yellow tang- that's all there was to my post. The fish was captured but not digested.
The fish was alive and healthy. The anemone captured it. Stung it to death. Then swallowed it. By definition, it was eaten. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/eat The amount of flesh (which wasn't much) left on the bones when the remains are pooed out later has nothing to do with the fact that the fish was eaten. The fact that the fish was in the digestive cavity is proof that the fish was eaten.



<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13347897#post13347897 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Gary Majchrzak
When haddoni eats a fish it (usually) spits out just the bones.
Haddoni is the fish eating anemone IME.
Don't place any Dragonettes with a haddoni!
I would go as far as to say that S. haddoni can sense fishes around it and (IME) appears to position itself to capture them. I've never witnessed that type of behavior in other anemone species. Perhaps phender has witnessed something similar with haddoni :confused:

Haddoni's are no different than any other anemone when it comes to digesting a fish. If it is a large fish, chances are it will not be able to digest all the flesh before it is expelled. The amount of the meal that actually gets digested depends mainly on the size of the meal compared to the size of the anemone,

It is physically impossible for a haddoni to sense fish around it and position itself to capture it. You have not witnessed this behavior in haddoni's as well as other anemones. It simply does no happen. Todd posted a pic of a Purple Tang very close to his haddoni. I see no signs of the haddoni positioning itself to attack. Here are a couple of pic (I have more) of my Yellow Tags very close to my haddoni. They did this continuously every day. The one that the Mag didn't eat still does. At no time does the haddoni respond to their presence.
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/1789/sn851144editedrr5.jpg
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/3333/sn851142editedda7.jpg

[Gary Majchrzak]

thanks for explaining to me what I did not see. I must be crazy to think that a Haddon's anemone can sense a nearby fish :lol:

another thing that I've noticed about Haddon's anemone: it seems to have some type of draw upon fishes. IME no other anemone species mesmerizes a fish the way a Haddon's does.
I mean- fishes will swim right up to a Haddon's and just stare right at it for minutes on end.
I've never seen fishes do this with any other species of anemone.
It makes me wonder if there's some kind of chemical attractant involved...

[Raibaru]

Probably has more to do with fish just being inquisitive/curious while also being cautious.

Generally what is the difficulty of the haddoni, gigantea, and magnifica? The pdf linked above and in the sticky simply says "most difficult" but it also says difficult for BTAs and all the people I talk to say they are relatively easy and no more difficult then keeping some of the more basic coral (people have commented that SPS are 10x more difficult to manage then anemones).

[Gary Majchrzak]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13348763#post13348763 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Raibaru
people have commented that SPS are 10x more difficult to manage then anemones
a very misleading generalization.

Entacmaea (BTA) is the widely accepted "easiest" anemone species to keep followed by haddoni then magnifica then gigantea (most difficult).
My fishes don't pay any attention to my gigantea.
They'll gaze all day long into a haddoni. There's something about Haddon's anemone that attracts fishes.

[NewSchool04]

Todd, I'm just going to come out with it and ask you when you are going to give me that blue anemone? When?

[NewSchool04]

Oh yeah, that yellow tang getting eaten . . . or regurgitated is tough to see. Interesting but tough. :)

[Toddrtrex]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13348902#post13348902 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by NewSchool04
Todd, I'm just going to come out with it and ask you when you are going to give me that blue anemone? When?

Oh, Pat, even in the state that I am in now ( been out all night ), you will never get my blue Haddoni -- the tan one, and the green one are open for discussion, but the blue one.....never. :)

The truth be told, the blue one was a gift from an ex, so (( warning sap moment )) it has a boat load of sentimental value to me, so I am going to hold on to it for as long as possible.

And now that I have embarrassed myself enough, I am going to listen to some music and call it a night.

And as for fish being eaten, will comment about that in the AM ( or when I wake up )

[orcafood]

http://www.reefscience.com/images/corals/0820/DSCF0011.JPG

That is the anemone I was looking at earlier. It looks like S. gigatea to me, what do you think?

[OrionN]

I think it is a S. gigantea. Look at the column. If there are color spots, it is a Gigantea.

[Ken_wied]

Dumb question - I read here that the carpet anem's are dangerous to corals - is it simply because they move and sting the corals or is it a chemical released that is toxic to corals? I keep my coral's on the complete opposite end of my tank than the nems. Any clarification would be greatly appreciated!
ken

[orcafood]

I read that gigantea are less likely to eat fish then Haddoni, have you guys found this to be true?

[orcafood]

I am getting a 10in purple based magnifica for free. Are they like carpets as in notorious fish eaters?

[wicked_NaCl_h2o]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13362328#post13362328 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by orcafood
I am getting a 10in purple based magnifica for free. Are they like carpets as in notorious fish eaters? How are you able to get one of those for free? wow thats some luck.

[elegance coral]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13362328#post13362328 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by orcafood
I am getting a 10in purple based magnifica for free. Are they like carpets as in notorious fish eaters?

No, they do not have the bad rap like haddoni's. There are much fewer people sucessful with these anemones though. Many of the people that are sucessful keep them is species tanks or tanks with very few fish other than clowns. The pool of knowledge we have on H. mag is simply to small for us to know the likelihood of them eating fish. They definitely have the ability, though. No one will be able to tell you if your mag will eat your fish or not.

[mrpet]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13329364#post13329364 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Toddrtrex
I currently have 3 haddonis, my oldest being 9+ years old. In all that time I have only lost 2 fish to them -- a watchman goby and a mandarin dragonet. Have kept dwarf angels, larger angels, tangs, and the like with them with no real issues. Of course I very well could just be lucky. Should note that 2 of the 3 host clownfish.
hello what are the yellow and orange zoas in the third pic very nice and if poss where did ya get them..
And now I HAVE to post pictures of them. ;)

Tan ( 9+ years old )

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/toddrtrex/Haddoni4_15_08.jpg

Blue ( 2+ years old )

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/toddrtrex/BlueHaddoniflash.jpg

Green ( 6+ months old )

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/toddrtrex/HiddenHaddoni5.jpg

[mrpet]

not sure what happened anyway what are the zoas in the third pic very nice.... and where did ya get them ....

[wicked_NaCl_h2o]

Those look like the zoas that he got from diversden. I was just about to order them and then they were gone. :lol: oh well

Anyways..who is giving you a free magnifica?

[Steve Cuddeback]

I have an 10 inch green haddoni and a very large 20 inch blue carpet in my 120 gallon mixed reef tank.The green one ate my 6 inch blonde naso about 2 weeks ago. Last night my blue carpet ate my 8 inch sailfin tang. I had these fish for over 7 years and they were the only fish in the tank except for a pair of Clarkies. I have only had the carpets for 6 months. I just added moonlights to hopefully keep any other fish from straying into the carpets at night which is when both fish were eaten. Is there anything else I can do to prevent this from happening?

[Gary Majchrzak]

besides the obvious (ie: don't place Haddon's anemone in the same aquarium as fish you don't want eaten) watch your anemones. IME they might move to a better night time fishing spot (ie: a place where the moonlights don't illuminate). Introducing Haddon's anemone after fish is much trickier than having the anemone first and adding the fish later. If a fish forgets where a new anemone is in the aquarium it might easily blunder into it.

[orcafood]

Well, the magnifica was going to be free because it got caught in the persons power head and lived. It was on a comeback, and the person didn't want it to happen again, so they just gave it away.

Too bad, there were two people selling the anemone, so one told me yes while the other told someone else. The other person apparently asked first. O well.