PDA

View Full Version : Tort with tip receesion???


Dejavu
09/11/2008, 02:16 AM
For some reason beyond me two of my blue torts have recession on their tips. The recession is about 2 cm on each tip and it has been like this for a little over a week. It looks like alk burn but my alk has been rock solid at 8.2 dKh (LaMotte). The two torts are the only corals that are have this problem out of ~90 different SPS. The recession hasn’t gotten bigger in size in the past few days. Does anyone have any thoughts?

Here are the parameters of the system. Everything has been stable and without change for the last few months. I test every week too. The only thing that has changed is my PO4 which got a little high. It was .14 ppm two week ago and last week it was .07ppm (hanna). Needed to change GFO, this has been done.

SG: 1.026 (refactometer)
Ca: 480 (salifert)
Alk: 8.6 (LaMotte)
Mg: 1400 (salifert)
pH: 8.1-8.4 (Profilux)
Nitrates: 0 (API)
Nitrites: 0 (API)
P04: .06 (hanna)
Temp: 79 (Profilux)

I'll try to get some pics.

tatmanfish
09/11/2008, 07:27 AM
i had this happen with an alk swing. my torts are the first to do this when that happens.check your test kits. other than that im not sure. best of luck

Dejavu
09/11/2008, 07:41 AM
No swings here. I thought the same but have been testing more than once a week for the pass month to determine which alk test kit i like better. Ya I'm a little OCD when it come to this thing. Salifert, LaMotte, and API all read about the same.

Dejavu
10/01/2008, 12:20 AM
Ok so I'm still having this issuse and its driving me mad. The two tort is only get worst. Now my Poape Torch and blue efflo are starting to do the same thing. I also have lost my Mike Paletta's Pink and Green. An other thing to note is that some of my other arco look a little "dry".

Here are the parameter to date:

SG: 1.026 (refactometer)
Ca: 520 (salifert)
Alk: 8.7 (LaMotte)
Mg: 1500 (salifert)
pH: 8.1-8.4 (Profilux)
Nitrates: 0 (API)
Nitrites: 0 (API)
P04: .01 (hanna)
Temp: 79 (Profilux)

I have been fighting a small case of HA and dianoflagates from a move that happen three months ago. So i have been doing water small changes once or twice a week. This also tells me that the PO4 are higher than .01 ppm.

My alk has been rock soild so, I don't think that it the cause. I also have been checking it twice a week.

Here list a list of thing that I think might be causeing it.

-Salt (I use corallife and have been for some time)

-high Ca (which I have ran this high before with out problems)

-Change in PO4 (have have been dropping slowly)

-high MG (which I have ran this high before with out problems also)

-potential current ( I have notice that there is some potential current it the tank. From what I have read is that its only potential unless grounded, thus harmless. I don't use grounding probes for these reason. )

Any suggestion or thoughts would be great.

miwoodar
10/01/2008, 02:34 PM
I'm currently experiencing something similar (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=13463560#post13463560). I removed the tips a couple of weeks ago but it has not bounced back the way it has in the past.

Maybe we overlap in some way...
* Have you moved to a new tank recently?
* Have you made any changes to your water source? Regenerated your own DI maybe?

Znut Reefer
10/01/2008, 03:46 PM
Have you added any new fish recently?

121
10/01/2008, 03:48 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13460615#post13460615 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Dejavu


-potential current ( I have notice that there is some potential current it the tank. From what I have read is that its only potential unless grounded, thus harmless. I don't use grounding probes for these reason. )



This doesn't make sense to me. I thought grounding probes removes the harmful current :confused:

suppressivefire
10/01/2008, 04:34 PM
im having the same problem :(

miwoodar
10/01/2008, 04:37 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13464448#post13464448 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 121
This doesn't make sense to me. I thought grounding probes removes the harmful current :confused:

It is 'potential' until you give it somewhere to go. After that it is current.

Kurt03
10/01/2008, 06:26 PM
Thank you for sending me to your thread, Im having similar issues as well.
We both have high mg. 1500+
other then that haven't found anything in common. My problems been going on for over a month...

Hope you dont mind, a link to my issues since our problems seem similar
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1453615&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

Dejavu
10/01/2008, 07:04 PM
I'm currently experiencing something similar (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/s...60#post13463560). I removed the tips a couple of weeks ago but it has not bounced back the way it has in the past.

Maybe we overlap in some way...
* Have you moved to a new tank recently?
* Have you made any changes to your water source? Regenerated your own DI maybe?


Thanks I will have to read your theard.

I moved the tank in July. I just relocated it in or house b/c of a new addition to the family. So the water source has been the same.

Have you added any new fish recently?

Fonda, I havn't add any fish for over a year.

Thank you for sending me to your thread, Im having similar issues as well.We both have high mg. 1500+
other then that haven't found anything in common. My problems been going on for over a month...

Hope you dont mind, a link to my issues since our problems seem similar
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showt...25&pagenumber=1

NP, I hope that between the both of us we can figure this out.

I have a friend that is having the same problem with his ORA blue tort. I talked with him today and asked about his Mg levels. His are around 1300-1360. So, I'm not sure if it the Mg or not. I will be going to see his tank and do some testing.

Dejavu
10/01/2008, 07:08 PM
For a little more back ground, this problem started with the tort about a month ago. It has recently start on other corals in the past week. Only 5 out of 90 sps have been effected so, the problem isn't that big yet. But its still a problem. I keep records of everything in a book so I will look to see if there is any noticable changes I have made in the past month.

Nanook
10/01/2008, 07:55 PM
Sounds like what I am going through too:( I have alk of 8.6, calcium of 500 and magnesium of 1350. SG is 1.025, temp is 76-78, phosphate is 0.03-0.05. No changes in lighting or feeding, but I did add some new liverock that was "almost" cured a month or so ago which could have caused these issues.

Several of my acros have faded, look "dry", less polyp extension and then they die out.....lost about 6 or 7 so far and will lose more before it is over. My milles and green acros look fine....my birdsnests and stylos look fine....mainly affecting my blue and purple acros.

Kurt03
10/01/2008, 09:20 PM
How old are your bulbs?
Mine are reeflux 12k also and they just hit the 6 month mark. New bulbs will be here tomorrow but im not sure thats it. Just something else to try and if thats not it I have bulbs when I need them.

What calcium RX media? not by chance using the zeo mag in it to are you?

madadi
10/01/2008, 09:56 PM
if you have not yet. double check your reflectometer. calibrate it just to rule that out. i had salinity of 1.030 and some corals receded at the tip, some STN from the bottom.

Dejavu
10/02/2008, 12:03 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13466215#post13466215 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Nanook
Sounds like what I am going through too:( I have alk of 8.6, calcium of 500 and magnesium of 1350. SG is 1.025, temp is 76-78, phosphate is 0.03-0.05. No changes in lighting or feeding, but I did add some new liverock that was "almost" cured a month or so ago which could have caused these issues.

Several of my acros have faded, look "dry", less polyp extension and then they die out.....lost about 6 or 7 so far and will lose more before it is over. My milles and green acros look fine....my birdsnests and stylos look fine....mainly affecting my blue and purple acros.

What salt are you using? Do you use GFO? I have read that K+ levels have an effect on blue's. I have a K+ test kit, while it a pain to use I will have to check it. If anyone with this problem has this test kit , it might be worth a look.

Dejavu
10/02/2008, 12:06 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13466878#post13466878 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Kurt03
How old are your bulbs?
Mine are reeflux 12k also and they just hit the 6 month mark. New bulbs will be here tomorrow but im not sure thats it. Just something else to try and if thats not it I have bulbs when I need them.

What calcium RX media? not by chance using the zeo mag in it to are you?

Now that you mention the bulbs... yes I do run 12k reeflux and so does my friend. My bulbs are 3-4 month old. Don't you think that all the corals would be effected if it were the bulbs? Just a thought, but every idea is worth a look.

I'm using the larger ARM. No zeo mag.

Dejavu
10/02/2008, 12:10 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13467079#post13467079 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by madadi
if you have not yet. double check your reflectometer. calibrate it just to rule that out. i had salinity of 1.030 and some corals receded at the tip, some STN from the bottom.

I will do. I do calibrate every two week, but it do for one. As for the STN from the bottom, its mostly the tips. I did trim them to see if they will heal, time will tell.

Goodwood
10/02/2008, 12:27 AM
Some of my corals will do it (Blue Tort is one) if I let the Po4 creep up. Not sure of the actual reading but if I run some GFO they are back to normal in a day or two. Im no scientist but, it happens to me every year or so and GFO always saves the day. Not sure if you have the same issue but I hope you get it worked out.

SALT WATER CRAZ
10/02/2008, 12:36 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13331279#post13331279 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Dejavu
Needed to change GFO, this has been done.


Just sence I didnt see where any one ask, Or any where that it was stated. Did the recession start before you changed the GFO, or after you changed it?

Dejavu
10/02/2008, 01:23 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13467642#post13467642 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SALT WATER CRAZ
Just sence I didnt see where any one ask, Or any where that it was stated. Did the recession start before you changed the GFO, or after you changed it?

Sorry, I was just stating that at the time my PO4 where high and that the GFO was exhausted.

The recession started before I changed it.

miwoodar
10/02/2008, 08:01 AM
Same problem for me but mine started soon after moving to the new tank.

I've been using GFO for over a year now.

My bulbs are 20K (one Radium 250 and one SPS 250).

Kurt03
10/02/2008, 04:00 PM
Dejavu: Check out my thread where Ball posts about his issues. Do you have any ReefCrystals available? Seems he started having issues when switching to oceanic, he thought it was the salt so he switched to coralife (he didnt know it then but its made by the same people as oceanic) and he noticed no change for the better. Switched back to RC and noticed improvement in a week or so after several water changes.

Nanook: what salt are you using?

This is very interesting to me as I just changed to oceanic and you are using corallife.

Dejavu
10/03/2008, 12:14 AM
Kurt03- Just checked it out. Both me and my friend swicthed to CL from RC salt back in June. I think I might have to switch salt in a few weeks. I just ordered 2 buckets. :( Although I don't think I will be going back to RC. I had good result when I use seachem reef salt, so I might try that.

I also tirmed the tip on the tort's. We'll see if things improve.

Ian
10/03/2008, 12:21 AM
Shoot! I just started using salt mix after 2 years of NSW and Im using coralife :(

Dejavu, I hope you can figure it out... You have some beautiful corals...

Dejavu
10/03/2008, 01:16 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13474360#post13474360 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ian
Shoot! I just started using salt mix after 2 years of NSW and Im using coralife :(

Dejavu, I hope you can figure it out... You have some beautiful corals...

Thanks Ian. I hope it the salt, but at the same time I hope not. CL test out so well. I thought i finally found the prefect salt after all these years.

Has anyone will these problem tested for copper? I don't have a copper test kit but think I will get one and teat for it.

SALT WATER CRAZ
10/03/2008, 01:24 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13474429#post13474429 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Dejavu
Has anyone will these problem tested for copper? I don't have a copper test kit but think I will get one and teat for it.


I would be surprised if it was copper. I am sure that you are always running carbon, and it should remove copper if there was any.

Dejavu
10/03/2008, 01:49 AM
Yes i do run carbon 24/7 and switch it out every three week. But I don't think it will hurt to test for it, seeing how all the other parameter are in check.

For coralife users, I was reading in the salt thread and notice that peolpe using CL was finding that the alk was low 6-7 dkH. Seeing how most with the problem are keeping alk around 9 dkH, doing a water change might be enough to low the alk for awhile.

I'm sure that most test their water before water changes, as I do. So a change in alk might not be noticed with the use of a Ca reactor, even if you test once a week. So my thought is that an alk dip might occur after water changes and it might be big enough to stess SPS corals that are touchy to alk swings, but not big enough to effect all sps that are not as senitive.

This might be the problem seeing how i have been increase the amount of water changes in my fight with diatoms.

I will test the salt tommorow and see if it low.
Here the link to the alk issue with Cl. page 12 and 13 to start and more towards the end.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1287118&perpage=25&highlight=Coralife&pagenumber=12

Dejavu
10/03/2008, 07:20 AM
Just got done test the alk on my coralife salt. I tested to different makeup @ SG of 1.026

#1 8.96 (LaMotte)
#2 9.18 (LaMotte)

Don't think that the problem, at least for me. I would still be interested in the results of other with this problem.

Kurt03
10/03/2008, 09:58 AM
I do not think the salt is necessarily bad, just not the right salt for some tanks. Ive seen several tanks using oceanic that look great, and a few that started seeing the issues that we are seeing after switching. Ive switched back to RC and started a long line of water changes and crossed my fingers. Non of this is backed up by facts, just observations. At this point thats enough for me to try it out before I loose more coral.

Dejavu
10/11/2008, 01:38 AM
So things are looking worst. My ORA blue tort is near death and there are 4 other acros that are pretty bad off. This week 3 more arcos seem to be losing their tips.

I still have no answers to the problem. I have been checking alk daily and all other parameters weekly. For the most part nothing has changed. I will post new parameters tomorrow and pics.

I have made a few changes. I started polyfilters on 10/6. Test for copper; result read 0. As suggested I started a different salt and choose to go back to Seachem Reef Salt which I have had good result in the past.

I did a 20% change yesterday and plan to do another one tomorrow. After that I will do one every other day. If things don’t improve in a week, I plan to move a good portion of my corals to a friend tank, in fear of losing everything. If anyone has any in put, please post. I’m about out of ideas.

Kurt03
10/12/2008, 06:18 PM
After changing back to RC and doing a ton of water changes for 1-2 weeks It seems like things are getting back on track for me. More details are in my thread so dont want to just double post it all. But I would guess you will see the TN slow and or stop within a week or two while doing water changes. At least this has been my experience so far. Have you had less PE during these issues? Mine seems to be returning after a lot of water changes with RC.

Best of luck to you!

Dejavu
10/13/2008, 02:35 PM
Well I have changed 45 gals with the new salt, about 65% of the system total volume. The TN have seemed to stop for now. I plan on doing two more 15 gal changes this week. For now I'm going to say that the old salt is the problem.