Sun Coral Spawn

[SethSPST]

Has anyone seen a sun coral spawn? Mine appear to be spawning, they are spiiting out small orange balls, and teardrop shaped orange things as well. THey've been doing it for a couple days.

[dendro982]

Yep, it's spawning. The planula should settle on the rock, downflow from main colony.

[SethSPST]

Will they grow new colonies?

[2divers]

ours ended up settling in the overflow box and grew nicely. Keep up the feeding and you probably will get good results.

[dendro982]

Will they grow new colonies?
Yes, by growing new polyps around the first polyp. Here are different stages:
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g78/dendro982/LPS/sunbabiesFeb607e.jpg
Only they are quite a long time in the single polyp state. Feeding speeds the growth.

This is one of what was a single polyp year before that:
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g78/dendro982/LPS/Tubastrea%20babies/gluingSep26_07orange.jpg
on not too good feeding, cyclop-eeze, no meaty food. Same age colonies, better fed were 2 times larger.

Same colony less than year later:
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g78/dendro982/LPS/Tubastrea%20babies/May19_08dailyfeed.jpg
Budding new polyps drastically increased after daily feedings (or at least every other day).

[SethSPST]

Thannks Dendro!

[lilfish07]

nice picture

[sunfishh]

Congradulations on your baby corals SethSPST

[timrandlerv10]

what do you feed? how often? what do you do to your tank when you feed?

are they in high flow, low flow, etc.

Thanks!

[Dustin1300]

Dendro, that is one of the healthiest I've ever seen. It's one FATTY!

[dendro982]

Thanks! Don't be shy posting your information and photos!
I have to find pictures of progress of the same piece, very interesting: Few very big polyps are catching big pieces of food and (likely) providing nutrition for the smallest polyps' growth. Main mass is a carpet of small polyps, catching the smallest food, that is too small for the big polyps. Very efficient!

[amithi]

very nice looking coral
congrats..

[goldenmacman]

those are some nice looking suns!

[Redds]

congrats gotta love when that happens

[yiliyang]

That is really cool. I found a single sun coral under a ledge in my tank, I had no idea how it got there, now I know my small colony was getting busy.

Learned something today.

[ReneX]

Congratulations! You must be keeping them well fed if they have enough energy to make babies. If you are lucky the babies will settle all over the rockwork and the ones in areas that allow them to get food will grow.

[SethSPST]

THere are still babies everywhere, unfortunately they haven't spawned since, and I've been neglecting them lately. Only been feeding about every 3rd night. I defrost a cube of mysis in the fridge, then soak it in vitachem or zoecon for about 1 hour before I feed. I've also started using cyclopeeze too.

[Plankt0s]

WOW! that real is cool. Thanks for sharing. I wish that you were able to get pics of the spawning.

[Kreeger1]

The spawn is just little balls floating in the tank, but Im sure you new that

[redfishc21w]

Hi dendro982
Could you give me some information how to keep Sun Coral ?
Water flow , where to put it and feeding .
I have 2 colony. They get black color stuff on 1 and then spread to others. What is the problem ?
Thanks

[dendro982]

redfishc21w:
The pages with my notes are here (http://www.defineyourreef.frihost.net/corals/sun.html), and particular aspects, like speed of growth and fragging, are here (http://www.defineyourreef.frihost.net/forums/viewforum.php?f=7).

Water flow: not too low, preferably tentacles should be slightly moved by flow, but not swept away, covering mouths.

Flow off for a target feeding. Could be on, but a lot could settle under the rock, and amount should be increased, so tubastreas anyway will receive some food.

I don't have the black stuff on mine and never seen descriptions of that on forums, sorry. Unless these are pieces of decaying food, that stuck between polyps, missing the mouths. Basting in morning (if you feed at night) will help, consider it analog of flossing teeth :) for tubastreas.
Necrotic tissue, IMHE, is grey - you can see it in the first link, under fragging.
I have black powder-like stuff, but on bottom of the tank, not on corals. Tend to think, that this is excretions - it much smaller, than planulas. And this is not sediment, produced by liquid phosphate remover - it was before its use and after.
Tank is bare bottom, nothing, but sun corals, all is quite visible.

biowerks:
There are photos of sun coral planula on the web, likely foundable by search on sun coral babies. Here is my T. faulknery (ID?) spawning:
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g78/dendro982/LPS/Tubastrea%20babies/Jan14_08spw1.jpg
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g78/dendro982/LPS/Sun%20fragging/Jan1408bott_planula.jpg

[redfishc21w]

Thanks for your information !

[Justjoe]

Congrats. I wrote an article on rearing tubastrea planulae for Aquarium Frontiers back in 1993, it was in print form then, its now online Advanced Aquarist.
I took the planulae and put them into shallow trays that floated in the main tank, and they quickly settled onto most objects, including clam shells, petri dishes and glass slides. It was neat to have them on the glass slides as you could watch the colony grow and calcium deposition from the underside of the coral.
The newly settled polyps were then placed in a fine mesh critter cage suspended in the main tank. The new polyps could be fed a concentrated amount of food (live BBS), which would slowly exit the critter cage, so they could feed heavily for an extended period of time.

[dendro982]

JustJoe, I'm so glad that you came here!

Please, if you will have time, post the critical points in non-photosynthetic corals keeping, creating conditions for reproduction and dealing with planulae or dropped babies (dendronephthya, scleronephthya, swiftia gorgonian).

Every bit of information is highly appreciated.

If you will be so kind, how to improve water quality with such amount of feeding, when just oversized skimmer is not enough. Not as big as on photo in your article (http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2007/2/aquarium), of course :)

Looks like skimmer removes only 20-30% of what should be removed (article (http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2009/1/aafeature2)), and what to do with what is left - using activated carbon at large scale is not cost efficient and bacterial removing leads to growth of the bacterial mass in the tank/sump, not removable by skimmer. Help, please!

Maybe some steps are essential: UV, ozone, 10 micron filter bags or vodka/vinegar dosing, for example, or using some kinds of food, that affect water quality less.

If possible, what kind of whole foods (not just fillets) for mouths of the sun corals size are widely available and less expensive, that LFS frozen cubes.

I, personally, currently can't clean water enough after feeding 5 thawed cubes (or seafood equivalent) daily for several sun coral colonies (Tubastrea, Dendrophyllia, Cladopsammia).
Tried 40x oversized skimmer and 40x tank volume rep hour flow, 100 micron sock, changes in few hours after feeding, no help.

And how do you feed large amounts of suns without spending too much time daily/weekly and polluting water too much by just spurting food onto them?

If possible, a couple words on visual recognition of the sun corals and their relatives: T. faulknery from T.coccinea, T. aurea and T. tagusensis, what are lemon yellow sun corals, branching and not, and so on. If information about their visual recognition is available in some books, can you post reference, please?

Sun coral planula handling:
- should floating trays have edges above water and substrate, floating at the top? My tubastrea planulae floated up and attache to the mesh from the bottom.
- how fine mesh for a cage should be, allowing food to pass and flow not restricted?
- how to feed mass of the babies in reasonable amount of time without crashing tank?
- and how to deal with babies in the tank? Feed them and have eventually tank as Daniela Stettler (http://www.korallenriff.de/Sindelfingen2005/daniela_torsten_2005.pdf) has/had? What filtration it will require? Oversized skimmer is not enough. BTW, in this presentation is photo, what she used for settlement of her corals planula, any comments?

Unrealed, but:
- what to use to efficiently control aiptasia in not too big tanks, like you had before Atlantis? :)
- if you are using Lanthanum based phosphate remover, should it be dosed into filter floss or micron bag, or just before skimmer intake?

Thank you and I'm looking forward to hear from you soon.

[Justjoe]

Looks like skimmer removes only 20-30% of what should be removed (article (http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2009/1/aafeature2)), and what to do with what is left - using activated carbon at large scale is not cost efficient and bacterial removing leads to growth of the bacterial mass in the tank/sump, not removable by skimmer. Help, please!

I'LL COMMENT WHERE I CAN, I DON'T KNOW HOW TO SEPARATE OUT THE TEXT SO I'M NOT YELLING, JUST USING CAPS TO ANSWER. REGARDING CARBON USE, MAYBE A BULK PURCHASE WITH OTHER LOCAL REEFERS WOULD HELP OUT WITH THE COST. I HAVEN'T USED IT BUT SOME FOLKS ARE SEEING GOOD RESULTS WITH SULPHUR BEAD FILTERS.

Maybe some steps are essential: UV, ozone, 10 micron filter bags or vodka/vinegar dosing, for example, or using some kinds of food, that affect water quality less.

I HAVEN'T USED IT BUT I WOULD THINK VODKA DOSING WOULD BE BENEFICIAL.
WHAT SIZE TANKS ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? ANY OF THESE TANKS WOULD BENEFIT BY HAVING AS BIG A SUMP AS POSSIBLE. SOLUTION TO POLLUTION IS SOMETIMES DILUTION.

If possible, what kind of whole foods (not just fillets) for mouths of the sun corals size are widely available and less expensive, that LFS frozen cubes.

WE JUST USE MYSIS, KRILL AND SOME GRATED SQUID AND CLAM, ALONG WITH CYCLOPS. I'LL SEE IF THE GANG IS USING ANYTHING ELSE THESE DAYS.


And how do you feed large amounts of suns without spending too much time daily/weekly and polluting water too much by just spurting food onto them?

NOT SURE HOW TO EASILY DO THIS. SOME FOLKS HAVE RIGGED UP DOSING PUMPS TO ADD LIVE BBS, BUT ANY PROCESS HAS LABOR ATTACHED TO IT.

If possible, a couple words on visual recognition of the sun corals and their relatives: T. faulknery from T.coccinea, T. aurea and T. tagusensis, what are lemon yellow sun corals, branching and not, and so on. If information about their visual recognition is available in some books, can you post reference, please?

SORRY, CAN'T HELP YOU THERE.

Sun coral planula handling:
- should floating trays have edges above water and substrate, floating at the top? My tubastrea planulae floated up and attache to the mesh from the bottom.

I HAD MINE IN FLOATING PLASTIC TRAYS WITH EDGES ABOVE WATER LEVEL WITH AN AIRSTONE FOR CIRCULATION, AND DID MANUAL WATER CHANGES WITH THE TANK WATER THEY WERE FLOATING IN.

- how fine mesh for a cage should be, allowing food to pass and flow not restricted?

NOT SURE OF THE MESH SIZE, IT WAS COMMONLY AVAILABLE CRITTER CAGES WITH A FABRIC MESH, IT WAS THE SMALLER MESH AVAILABLE, AND IT WOULD ALLOW BBS TO SWIM OUT.

- how to feed mass of the babies in reasonable amount of time without crashing tank?

DEPENDS ON SIZE OF TANK, ETC. IT IS TOUGH TO MINIMIZE THE LABOR WHEN RAISING ANY MARINE CRITTERS

Unrealed, but:
- what to use to efficiently control aiptasia in not too big tanks, like you had before Atlantis? :)

DEPENDING ON TANK, COPPERBAND BUTTERFLY ALWAYS WORKED WELL, LYSMATTA ALSO. INJECTION WITH VINEGAR TOO.

- if you are using Lanthanum based phosphate remover, should it be dosed into filter floss or micron bag, or just before skimmer intake?

HAVING IT GO TO A MECHANICAL FILTER FIRST, THEN TO THE SKIMMER WOULD BE IDEAL, I ALSO DILUTE THE LC FIRST IN RO WATER THEN SLOW DRIP IT.

[dendro982]

Thank you for the provided information and willingness to help the hobbyists!

As I understand, you do not use carbon, relying for removing DOC on skimmer, ozone and for something untestable - on GFO (information from article), right?

Mechanical filtration is done by sand filters. Do you have a link to description how they work, especially how to clean them and is prefiltration necessary or not?

Are you washing mysis and krill, or soaking them in vitamins and Selcon-like enrichments?

If it is no secret, how do you dose food into the tank?

Article mentioned ways of cleaning tank from detritus accumulation:
- random flow,
- fast emptying vessel (surge device?),
- short term storm, made by aerator.
What kind of cleanup crew do you have, hundreds or thousands of them (for 2000g tank :) )?

And you don't have bacterial growth inside pumps, skimmer body and piping, requiring their disassembling and cleaning every month, right?

Sorry about asking so much questions, but it is a rare occasion to get very useful information.

My tanks are small: from 6g to 125g.

[Justjoe]

As I understand, you do not use carbon, relying for removing DOC on skimmer, ozone and for something untestable - on GFO (information from article), right?

I DO HAVE SOME CARBON ON THE TANK, AND I USE CARBON AS A PRE FILTER TO THE GFO's AS WELL. THE GFO's STILL GRAB SOME PO4, BUT MY MAIN EXPORT OF PO4'S IS VIA THE LANTHANUM CHLORIDE.

Mechanical filtration is done by sand filters. Do you have a link to description how they work, especially how to clean them and is prefiltration necessary or not?

SAND FILTERS ARE JUST POOL FILTERS WITH A SAND BED THAT CATCHES PARTICULATE MATTER, AND THEN THEY ARE BACKWASHED (WATER IS PUMPED BACK UP THROUGH THE SAND BED TO FLUSH OUT THE PARTICULATE MATTER.

Are you washing mysis and krill, or soaking them in vitamins and Selcon-like enrichments?

NO, I USUALLY DON'T WASH OR DEFROST THE KRILL/MYSIS FOR THE BIG TANK, BUT I DO RECOMMEND RINSING IT FOR SMALLER TANKS.

If it is no secret, how do you dose food into the tank?

ON THE REEF TANK, I'LL PUT FROZEN BLOCKS ONTO SOME OF MY PROP DRIVEN UNITS AND AS IT DEFROSTS IT IS SHOT INTO THE WATER COLUMN, OTHER FROZEN BLOCKS ARE JUST FLOATED IN THE TANK.

Article mentioned ways of cleaning tank from detritus accumulation:
- random flow,
- fast emptying vessel (surge device?),
- short term storm, made by aerator.
What kind of cleanup crew do you have, hundreds or thousands of them (for 2000g tank :) )?

NOT MANY CLEAN UP CRITTERS GIVEN MY FISH CHOICES. THERE ARE SOME CUKES AND I USE URCHINS AS WELL. THERE IS A 300 GALLON CSD THAT DUMPS EVERY 7-8 MINUTES AND TAKES 35 SECONDS TO EMPTY. THERE ARE SEASWIRLS AND WAVYSEAS ON THE TANK, AS WELL AS 1.5" EDUCTORS ON SOME OTHER RETURN LINES FOR GREATER INTANK FLOW. ONE CUSTOM PROP UNIT THAT CAN MOVE ABOUT 500GPM, AND A SECOND UNIT BY SCOTTS AERATOR THAT I DROP IN TO STORM THE TANK (THESE PROP UNITS ARE BASICALLY TUNZE's ON STEROIDS...
IT TAKES A LOT OF WATER FLOW TO KEEP 20,000 GALLONS HAPPY.

And you don't have bacterial growth inside pumps, skimmer body and piping, requiring their disassembling and cleaning every month, right?

NOT MUCH GROWTH AT ALL IN THE PIPES, SO NO CLEANING NECESSARY EXCEPT FOR THE HEAT EXCHANGER PLATES WHICH HAVE A VERY TIGHT TOLERANCE WITH LITTLE OPEN SPACE SO THEY CAN CLOG OVER TIME.

[dendro982]

Thank you, Joe! Most kind of you, I really appreciate that.

[ekr1]

those are some very nice one. makes me wanting to get a few.

[Plankt0s]

biowerks:
There are photos of sun coral planula on the web, likely foundable by search on sun coral babies. Here is my T. faulknery (ID?) spawning:
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g78/dendro982/LPS/Tubastrea%20babies/Jan14_08spw1.jpg
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g78/dendro982/LPS/Sun%20fragging/Jan1408bott_planula.jpg [/B][/QUOTE]


Thanks, Cool pic its nice to have your camera around when stuff like that happens. :)

[dendro982]

:D That what point-and-shoot cameras, $90 refurbished, are for ;)

[Plankt0s]

Wow, this forum runs really slowly.

[kohlton]

We have had our Sun Coral for about a month. Seems to be doing fine with target feeding.

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb253/kohlton777_bucket/orange.jpg