Quiet One 4000

[jimnrose]

I'm using a Quiet One model 4000 as the sump return pump & can either mount it in the sump or above it. I'm guessing that it will perform better in the sump but the 50 watts will increase the water temp (total water volume is 150 gal). Any sugestions?

[Jayreefer]

I most likly won't notice much of a temp change. Maybe 1 degree.

[AZDesertRat]

That pump is water cooled so will run the same temperature either externally or internally. It has water jackets inside by the impeller that circulate water around the windings and uses tank water either way. I run most of my pumps submerged just because they are quieter that way. I will say I had a Quiet One 4000 literally fry and electrify my tank and its inhabitants. I also recently had a QO 1200 do the same and I will never own another one and would not wish one on my worst enemy. Watch it very close!

[jimnrose]

AZ, what pump would you recommend? Also from your experience on electrical disaster to the fish, then wouldn't it be safer to have the pump mounted enternally? As for the temperature, I was concerned about the rise in water temp from the pump heat and Jayreefer thinks it would be within a degree.
Thanks for the inputs, Jim

[AZDesertRat]

Water temperature will be the same either way since the pump is product (tank water) cooled and not fan or air cooled.
The Ocean Runner 3500 or Eheim 1262 are both much better choices and the OR 3500 has the advantage of costing less than half the Eheim and being slightly more energy efficient.
When the pumps go to ground its inside the pump between the impeller magnet and windings so again it does not matter if its internal or external. My 1200 actually developed a hole in the side of the plastic housing where the water jacket was close to the surface I suppose and leaked externally. The 4000 shorted out internally and did not leak but it got so hot my chiller ran for over 24 hours non stop and could not keep up until I discovered the problem by sticking my hand in the tank and getting the bejezus shocked out of me. I started unplugging things one at a time until I discovered it was the 4000 and replaced it with an OR 3500. My tank temp dropped in average 2 degrees and my chiller rarely runs even in the summer.

[jimnrose]

AZ, thanks for the info. I'll include the OR 3500 on my replacement list. As for the water temp, the pump is running at 50 watts and when submersed, it will dissipate the heat into the water. Externally mounted, some (?) of the heat will be transferred to the water running thru the pump and some will be transferred by convection into the air. If the pump runs cool (externally) then the convention purtion will be minimal and the difference in elevated water temperature will insignificant. My problem (one of many) is that I'm conjecturing because I still don't have an operating system. This forum porvides the guidance. Jim

[AZDesertRat]

Air is not as efficient at cooling so the pump will be much hotter on the surface when run extrenally which in turn transfers more heat to the water circulating inside and back to the tank. These tests have been run by multiple people here on RC, myself included with some pumps and its always comes ou the same. Internal or external they give off the same heat to the tank.
I found with both the 1200 and 4000 I could not comfortable lay my hand on the pump when it was running externally, they get very hot. The OR and Eheim are bigger physically and dissapate the heat better so do not transfer as much heat. I did not find the QO numbers for watts, head and flow to be as accurate as both the OR and Eheim either, both will pump circles around the 4000 at all points on the pump curve.

[jimnrose]

AJ, thanks again for the explaination. I'll submerge the pump and as you said the noise level will be lower. Seperate but related question. Pums are on 24 hrs/day but the lighting is on usually 8 hrs/day. When the lights go off, the water cools, so I'm guess thats why we need the electric heaters. Room ambient is usually between 70 and 78 (winter to summer) in a heated & cooled hose system. I decided on the T5 lighting ( 3.5w/gal) to avoid the power usage of coolers and am also watching the heat from the numerous pumps that are running full time. Therefore the electric heaters are on both when the lights are off as well as maintaining the water temp when the ambient air is low (winter).
Have I got it right? [My tank is a 125 gal but I intentionally have a shallow one (17") to reduce the light requirements.]
I'm finally finished. Jim

[raddogz]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13368707#post13368707 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by AZDesertRat
That pump is water cooled so will run the same temperature either externally or internally. It has water jackets inside by the impeller that circulate water around the windings and uses tank water either way. I run most of my pumps submerged just because they are quieter that way. I will say I had a Quiet One 4000 literally fry and electrify my tank and its inhabitants. I also recently had a QO 1200 do the same and I will never own another one and would not wish one on my worst enemy. Watch it very close!

You know it's interesting you that - we had a QO 6000 where the housing cracked unbeknownst to me. I shocked myself for the longest time never knowing what was going on until I replaced the pump out for an Eheim 1262.

The QO was plumbed externally.

The Eheim 1262 kicks the QO 6000 hands down

[AZDesertRat]

In a larger system you should not get significant temperature swings over a 24 hr period. My tank is a 100G 60x18x23 high with a 30G sump. It is lit w/ 2x250w MH and 2x140w VHO superactinics in an totally enclosed canopy with two 4" computer fans blowing in, one in each end and equal sized holes in the top of the canopy lid so I take advantage of convection as well as the fans. In the summer I run one fan 24/7 and the other is on a timer with the lights so runs about 8 hr a day, in winter they run only with the lights and at a reduced speed. I have a OR3500 retrun pump, OR3500 closed loop pump, two Koralia K4s, a OR2700 skimmer pump, a Mag2 calcium reactor pump and several small Maxijet power heads for phosban and carbon reactors and to feed the skimmer.
My temperature stays right at 79-81 degrees year round and hardly fluctuates in a 24 hr period. My ViaAqua Titanium heater hardly ever runs and the chiller and clip on fan are now both just back ups and never run.

79-80 is a good temperature for a reef system and is easy to maintain for most people. If lights raise the temp too much fans cans usually help control it, If it gets too cold you may want to look at where it is placed in the home, things like air conditoning vents can lead to excessive evaporation and cooling. being close to an uninsulated window can lead to temp extremes as can direct sunlight. In the Southwest I am more concerned about getting too hot rather than too cold.

[jimnrose]

AJ & Co., I think I got it and thanks for your help. Jim