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Gondore
09/17/2008, 05:22 AM
I would like to get input on what you believe is the most reliable and accurate totally submersible heater on the market today. I am running a Jager right now but these are not totally submersible. I need something I can hide in my sump.

scaz
09/17/2008, 09:10 AM
I like the Won brothers brand.

http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_AquariumPage~PageAlias~heaters_won_brothers_pro-heat_titanium.html

biger
09/17/2008, 11:02 AM
Rena Cal's are good. I have one that has worked great for 8+ yrs and they are fully submersible but it is best to have a controller for all heaters to be sure.

Some good reading. Look under articles for the one about heating.

http://www.beananimal.com/home.aspx

pjf
09/17/2008, 11:22 AM
Eheim Jager heaters are fully submersible per the vendors website: http://www.eheim.com/base/eheim/inhalte/indexd50d.html?key=liniendetail_24552_ehen

I don't know the full history of this issue. My understanding is that when Eheim purchased Ebo Jager, re-certification was required before the heater could be warranted for submersible use.

Gondore
09/17/2008, 11:26 AM
Their heaters say right on them to not fully submerse them. There is actually a line placed on the heater where the water line should be.

biger - Than is an interesting article. Any idea on the cost of the Ranco controller?

EnderG60
09/17/2008, 11:45 AM
Ive used them all and they all suck.

get a ranco, and two of the cheap stealth heaters.

No glass to break, cheap and a real controller for when the internal thermostat goes, like they do on every heater.

oh and you can get a single stage ranco on ebay for $40 unwired

Gondore
09/17/2008, 11:48 AM
EnderG60 - What do you mean by "single stage" and "unwired". I believe this is the route I want to go but need a bit more info.

Gondore
09/17/2008, 11:51 AM
Oh, so you can't simply plug your heaters into the controller...they have to be wired in?

seagirl
09/17/2008, 01:22 PM
Get a ranco from diy reef, they have the best wiring IMO. It's plug and play.
single stage-

https://diyreef.authsecure.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=68&products_id=37

dual stage-

https://diyreef.authsecure.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=68&products_id=212

Also, jagers are completey submersible, they just can't say it b/c of ul listing. I have several jagers underwater and they are fine. Ask around and you will see almost everyone runs jagers underwater, it's fine.

tomphot1
09/17/2008, 01:30 PM
I like the Won brothers brand as well.
After having one break in the sump, this works out great.

BigJay
09/17/2008, 01:39 PM
The current plan is to run a pair of smaller eheim jager heaters using my aquacontroller as a temp controller.

My goal is to have the fewest gadgets as possible on my system, K.I.S.S. kind of thing.

Gondore
09/17/2008, 01:40 PM
What do you guys think about going with a overall controller like the RK2 or AquaController Jr. versus the Ranco for the money?

BigJay
09/17/2008, 01:46 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13371856#post13371856 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Gondore
What do you guys think about going with a overall controller like the RK2 or AquaController Jr. versus the Ranco for the money?

Ranco's are cheap enough and better for the job. There's no doubting this.

I'm using my controller because I know how to use it, I'm out of places to plug other things in, and I don't have room for more gadgets. The temp probe measures within .5 degrees F of two mercury thermometers. It should work well enough.

seagirl
09/17/2008, 02:47 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13371856#post13371856 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Gondore
What do you guys think about going with a overall controller like the RK2 or AquaController Jr. versus the Ranco for the money? I like my AC Jr, but the temp sensor has failed a few times. I've never had that problem with my ranco.

BigJay
09/17/2008, 03:21 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13372234#post13372234 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by seagirl
I like my AC Jr, but the temp sensor has failed a few times. I've never had that problem with my ranco.

Supposedly the newer Neptune temp probes are much better than the old, but yes. If the controller fails then you are at the mercy of the local heater thermostats.

seagirl
09/17/2008, 03:52 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13372405#post13372405 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BigJay
Supposedly the newer Neptune temp probes are much better than the old, but yes. If the controller fails then you are at the mercy of the local heater thermostats. I haven't had a failure since receiving the new style, so hopefully this is true.

biger
09/17/2008, 04:13 PM
I have a RKE controller and monitor the temp with it but still use 2 ranco controllers for my heaters. Feel safer that way. Works good lasts long time.

Gondore
09/17/2008, 06:02 PM
So, if I purchase the duel stage can I hook multiple fans and heaters into it. Like if I hook all the fans into a power strip and then hook that strip into the controller and do the same with the heaters will this work?

Runfrumu
09/17/2008, 06:06 PM
im tagging along in this one as well. I already have the ranco dual temp controller on my chiller and im in the marker for a good heater too. I can only seem to find the won brothers 50 watt and 1000 watt, cant locate the ones in between. Im looking for the 200 watt. Marine depot also only has the 1000watt and 50 watt.

Runfrumu
09/17/2008, 06:09 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13373359#post13373359 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Gondore
So, if I purchase the duel stage can I hook multiple fans and heaters into it. Like if I hook all the fans into a power strip and then hook that strip into the controller and do the same with the heaters will this work?

Im not sure on the multiple heater thing. I wouldnt think the fans pull enough watts to hurt anything. All the controller looks like is 1 plug plugs into the wall, then it goes to the controller itself, then on the back it has 2 plugs coming out. one for the heater, one for chiller/fan. The controller is pretty easy to use, you can set it where it kicks on the heater or chiller within 1 degree of your set point. It recommends 2 though so the chiller or heater isnt going off and on alot.

Gondore
09/17/2008, 06:23 PM
I have three fans and two heaters I would like to hookup. The heaters are a 200 watt and a 100 watt.

Ryan45
09/17/2008, 07:08 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13371045#post13371045 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Gondore
Their heaters say right on them to not fully submerse them. There is actually a line placed on the heater where the water line should be.

biger - Than is an interesting article. Any idea on the cost of the Ranco controller?

I have been running my Ebo Jager fully submersed for 3 years with no ill affects.

skriz
09/18/2008, 12:24 AM
whatever you do, don't buy finnex. They're crap and customer service is non-existent. I had 2 crap out on me after 6 months (I checked them at the 6 month mark and they were dead-could have crapped out earlier?)

biger
09/18/2008, 11:05 AM
I have two 200 watt heaters hooked up to one ranco controller with a 3-way plug with no problems. I think u can have up to 16 amps 1700 watts.

pjf
09/20/2008, 10:21 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13371045#post13371045 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Gondore
Their heaters say right on them to not fully submerse them. There is actually a line placed on the heater where the water line should be.

biger - Than is an interesting article. Any idea on the cost of the Ranco controller?
I have an older Jager heater with the same warning printed on the thermostat: “Do not immerse beyond water level.” Yet there is no warning on the instructions. My understanding is that when Ebo was purchased by Eheim, the heater had to be recertified for submersible use. Aside from the warning label, there has been no change in the design or manufacture of the heater that I am aware of.

Once the certification was obtained, Eheim has been removing the warnings and advertising that the Jager heater is submersible. I recommend completely submerging the heater to obtain temperature accuracy. At one point when my thermostat was sticking out of the water, I measured a 5-degree difference between the water temperature and the setting on the thermostat.

For the price, I still think the Eheim Jager heater is a bargain because its thermostat can be calibrated. Here are the instructions: http://www.boroniaaquarium.com.au/newsletter/cms_files/Jager%20heater.pdf?NewsletterSession=7c5a8ab1545a1745e6514e6d836edb6f.

If you are planning to buy an expensive temperature controller, you should buy one that can be calibrated with an accurate liquid-in-glass thermometer. My view is that all electronic controllers eventually drift and calibration becomes a necessity. I use an Eheim Jager heater in series with a Medusa controller. Both are field-calibrated with a Miller & Weber non-mercury glass thermometer (see review section).

If you cannot afford such a controller today, you can buy two Eheim Jager heaters with each delivering about one watt per gallon and keep them calibrated. This provides a margin of safety in case of a failure of one heater. By checking their LEDs, you can see how closely they are synchronized.

biger
09/20/2008, 02:55 PM
I also have ebo jager heaters but I still don't trust any heaters without a good controller. Just my opinion.

Gondore
09/20/2008, 04:53 PM
Thanks guys for all the replies, I learned a lot. I plan to totally submerse my jager heater now. I also purchased a stealth heater the other day and placed it in my sump. I plan to purchase the ranco controller in a month or so and use it to control two heaters and three fans.

biger
09/20/2008, 05:03 PM
Your welcome and sounds like a good plan.

jerryc
09/20/2008, 07:31 PM
I used to have a heater with a remote thermostat that barned out.
The thermostat was steal good so i cut of the heater put on a cord cap and plagued the new heater in to it.
that gives me a backup for it.

pjf
09/20/2008, 07:31 PM
The Stealth heater does not have an LED to indicate whether it is on or off.

Gondore
09/20/2008, 08:01 PM
pjf - Yeah, I don't really like that about the Stealth heater. I would have ordered another Jager had I known you could fully submersed them. I needed an additional heater for my sump.