PDA

View Full Version : Can I move a 20 reef to a 38 gallon?


Taqpol
09/24/2008, 03:11 PM
Hi all, if you look at my build thread (Red house) you can see that I have had a 20 gallon mixed reef set up for about four months now, but i already feel restricted by the size. When I move into a more permanent apartment in April/May I plan on truly upgrading and setting up a full blown 75/90 or even 125 gallon reef. Since that move isn't going to be for awhile I was wondering if I could move my corals/fish into a more appropriate home without buying any new equipment.

I have a 38 gallon tank (36"x12"x20") that I currently have freshwater fish in. Sadly, as I have grown tired of freshwater after being enthralled by salt water, I plan on trading all my freshwater livestock back in. When that was done I would transfer my 20 gallon to the 38 and only have one fish tank.

My question is, would all of the equipment I have now suffice in this size of tank? My biggest question is lighting: I have the Current Sundial (4x24w T5HO bulbs with individually contoured reflectors). I am very happy with this light, but it would not extend all the way to the sides and penetrance might be a problem. If I only kept high light corals in the middle of the tank high up on the rockwork would this work? As far as filtration goes I have a small CPR AquaFuge (That would most likely go on an end instead of the back of the tank) and a Tunze 9002 skimmer. The skimmer is rated for 50 gallons, so 38 might push it but I wanted to ask. I would pick up one or two more powerheads and maybe rig them up on a Chauvet "wavemaker" or go ahead and get the RK2 that I will want on my bigger tank anyways. Does this sound doable?

Also, since time is of no consegquence what would be a good timeline for doing all of this? (From when I start the cycle in the 38 with some new live rock until when I can start transferring livestock over)

Taqpol
09/24/2008, 05:14 PM
.

Elan L.
09/24/2008, 06:35 PM
Seems fine to me (but dont take my word for it). Just set up the 38 just like you did you 20 in the beginning.
(bump)

joem1cha3l
09/24/2008, 06:39 PM
good luck bud

D to the P
09/24/2008, 07:34 PM
It shouldn't be an issue. You might notice the light doesn't light up the sides as well because the 20 gallon is a whole foot smaller than the 38. It'll be a matter of personal preference then. I wouldn't put the light too far away from the tank if you plan on hanging it. I would add some new live rock to the 38, and seed it with a few pieces of old live rock from your 20 gallon. It'll be a matter of watching your levels before you can move anything really, but if you are going to use the same filter, just make sure it stays wet, same with the sand and old live rock. That way the beneficial bacteria won't take too much of a hit. You should be able to make the transition easily within a week, but you might have to do a few water changes once everything gets into the 38. So, for a time line it could be like:

Monday: start up the 38 and get the levels right
Tuesday: add some old sand from your tank to the new sand in the 38
Wednesday: If levels look good (ie pH and ammonia and salinity), add new live rock, and a few pieces of your old live rock.
Friday/weekend: Move everything over and keep an eye on your parameters.

It should be pretty simple. Your skimmer should be ok but obviously it won't be doing as good of a job as it would be on the 20 gallon, so you might need to do 10% water changes every week, or if you already do that, just watch your levels to see if you need to do that more often, like 20% a week.

Good luck.

Tswifty
09/24/2008, 07:40 PM
Very doable... You're not making a huge jump, so in all reality, you could just transfer over everything into the new tank and not really worry about a cycle.

Just add new substrate... seed it with a cup or 2 of gthe old stuff. Transfer as much of the old water as possible, and make up new water for the difference.

Jeff Trout just did something very similar moving from a 125 to a 180 and posted the process on my thread. Also without that large of a bio load, a skimmer upgrade is not THAT big of a deal right now. If you do upgrade, and aren't using a sump. Warner Marine, and Octopus make some pretty nifty HOB skimmers. I'm actually thinking about giving the WM skimmer a shot on my 30g tank.

As far as the lighting goes... you hit it on the head... I would just place higher light demanding corals directly under the center of the light so they receive the highest intensity.

It sounds like the biggest obstacle will be addressing new flow requirements along with additional Live Rock... Depending on how much you add at a time, you may need to cure it in a bin for a few weeks first before adding it to your tank.

Taqpol
09/24/2008, 08:04 PM
My current 20 would be up for the entirety of the transition, so I was planning on letting new sand and some additional new rock cure in the new tank for upwards of a month before transferring some of my old rock and then later the rest of the livestock.

But what you are saying is that if i add a cupful of old sand to the new sand, about 10 gallons of old water (50% is about all I would ever want to do...), and include a few of my old pieces of rock with the new stuff I could have the cycle done in a week? If so, that sounds good to me.

The light would be flush with the top of the tank (as it is now) and yes, six inches on either side would only get indirect light. As for flow I was thinking my current MJ900 plus an MJ1200 on opposite sides with the tips cut off and on a wavemaker, plus my current Korallia 1 and a new Korallia 2 (or 3, in preparation for the new tank) up at the top providing surface agitation plus flow for my few SPS that are going to be close to the lights.

I also want to try a two island aquascape (Just like Tswifty's), so are they any special flow considerations for that type of set up?

pitbullguy
09/24/2008, 08:05 PM
I would try to reuse all your water from your 20 gallon, and any sand or rock. I always like adding live marine bacteria that comes in a bottle, it has alwys helped me.

D to the P
09/24/2008, 08:13 PM
Yeah I'd use all your rock and most of your sand. You should also check out the maxijet mods for those two that you have. They make a world of difference. I'm not 100% sure if they would still work on a wave maker though (because the standard koralias don't).

Taqpol
09/24/2008, 08:21 PM
All of my rock will go in the new tank eventually, but I wanted to leave some for the livestock that will be waiting for the transition. Does everyone agree that it should only take a week before the new tank is ready for livestock?

D to the P
09/24/2008, 08:35 PM
Yeah, as long as the parameters stay good.

Tswifty
09/24/2008, 08:52 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13419877#post13419877 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Taqpol
All of my rock will go in the new tank eventually, but I wanted to leave some for the livestock that will be waiting for the transition. Does everyone agree that it should only take a week before the new tank is ready for livestock?
Honestly I think you could do it same day... but whatever you're comfortable with.

I also second the MJ mods... They can be placed on a wavemaker. If you're looking at an additional powerhead, I would consider another modded MJ. Although 2 modded MJ's should be more than enough flow for your tank. Honestly... I have nothing good to say about Koralias.

Taqpol
09/24/2008, 09:27 PM
I heard that the MJ mods were quite noisy, even after they "broke in".

D to the P
09/24/2008, 11:11 PM
My friend has one and it's not noisy. And it's powerful as all hell. But, that's just one so I can't speak for all of them. Personally I haven't heard anything bad about them.

Tswifty
09/25/2008, 06:34 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13421009#post13421009 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by D to the P
Personally I haven't heard anything bad about them.
+1

cdness
09/25/2008, 08:18 AM
They aren't too bad unless they get dirty. Put them through a good cleaning and they are whisper quiet again. Get the nice mag mount for them and you are set. They do push lots of water.

Taqpol
09/25/2008, 10:33 AM
If I went that route I would probably get some more MJ900's (I don't think the MJ1200 is worth over twice the wattage...), but do these things truly put out 1600gph? I heard someone say that they moved a lot of water, but definitely not 1600 gallons. Also, I already have a problem with a koralia 1 moving my sand bed, albeit it was placed a little bit low to try and get behind my rockwork, but I'm a little bit scared of having too much flow. I have a frogspawn near the glass (where I'm assuming there is a little bit more turbulence) and the side away from the flow looks much healthier/expands more than the side into the flow.

Also, at $28 for a 1600 sureflow mod + pump, and 19.99 for the magnet, thats almost $50 a pump, and sightly more expensive than the koralias.

I personally had never heard anything bad about the koralias, so could you tell me here (or in a PM) whats so bad about them?

D to the P
09/25/2008, 10:55 AM
I've never heard anything bad about the koralias. You just mentioned that you already had MJ's, and the MJ mods are pretty sweet, but yeah if it's that expensive to upgrade them, you mind as well get a koralia. I know the modded MJ that my friend had pushes like it was a koralia 3.

D to the P
09/25/2008, 10:59 AM
plus the $28 is for the pump and mod, it's only 14 for the mod because you already have the pump. The suction cups aren't bad, but the magnets are better of course. Instead of adding more powerheads to the tank, I was just suggesting you upgrade the MJ's you already have.

thecoralreefer
09/25/2008, 11:03 AM
I agree w swifty
you can do this in a day
If you use all the rock and water
your parameters will not change drasticlly
I have done this so many times I can't tell you.
The bacteria will drop some but just to be certain use a bottle of bacter or some sort of start juice if you want.
just be quick about moving the corals and if you have torches or frogspawn hold then upside down so as not to bruise them
when moving. The sps will close down when touched anyway.
but lps can not close that fast Sand can be replace if yours is dirty.
And this stuff holds a lot of detris so it could be benificial to replace the sand Most are "live" anyway.
As far as equipment goes everybody thinks theres is the best
we all have opinions on which are best.
Me I miss Dolphin Pumps.

Taqpol
09/25/2008, 11:16 AM
I understand what you're saying about replacing the ones I have, but I only have the one MJ900 and one Koralia 1, so regardless I'm going to need another powerhead for the 38.

None of this will even happen for a week (I'm not going to start until after my first round of exams/papers), plus I'm also going to order all the pumps plus some new heaters before I start.

Tswifty
09/25/2008, 12:04 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13423134#post13423134 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Taqpol
If I went that route I would probably get some more MJ900's (I don't think the MJ1200 is worth over twice the wattage...), but do these things truly put out 1600gph? I heard someone say that they moved a lot of water, but definitely not 1600 gallons. Also, I already have a problem with a koralia 1 moving my sand bed, albeit it was placed a little bit low to try and get behind my rockwork, but I'm a little bit scared of having too much flow. I have a frogspawn near the glass (where I'm assuming there is a little bit more turbulence) and the side away from the flow looks much healthier/expands more than the side into the flow.

Also, at $28 for a 1600 sureflow mod + pump, and 19.99 for the magnet, thats almost $50 a pump, and sightly more expensive than the koralias.

I personally had never heard anything bad about the koralias, so could you tell me here (or in a PM) whats so bad about them?
Nothing secret... I just think the flow they produce sucks ***

Of course it depends what kind of flow you're looking for I guess. The MJ mod comes with 2 propellers, and I've been ensured by 2 reefers that use them, that they crank out the flow.

I agree, the 1200 may be a bit much for that size tank, but I think you can also mod the 900's. They may be slightly more expensive than the koralias, but the koralias don't touch the flow... and personally I read mixed results about people modding the koralias and sticking them on wavemakers.

In my 90, I'm planning on running 2 modded MJ1200's across from each on a wavemaker alternating on anywhere from 5 to 15 minute intervals (haven't decided) then using the K3's as deritus movers, low and on the back wall of the tank. Basically just to keep crap from settling.

Taqpol
09/25/2008, 12:28 PM
Which propeller would you use on the 90? I also want to upgrade to a four foot tank in the near future.

From reading the thread about the chauvet wavemaker I thought the sureflow mods were just as bad as a koralia, though it is said that normal MJ's last a long time on a wavemaker. You have heard that the sureflows will also work?

Tswifty
09/25/2008, 12:29 PM
I'm going to start out with the 2100 propeller, because I'm going to have one side on, then the other on intervals.

I haven't really checked around, I can ask a few people.

Taqpol
09/25/2008, 12:44 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13423658#post13423658 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Tswifty8
In my 90, I'm planning on running 2 modded MJ1200's across from each on a wavemaker alternating on anywhere from 5 to 15 minute intervals (haven't decided) then using the K3's as deritus movers, low and on the back wall of the tank. Basically just to keep crap from settling.

I used my singular K1 in the 20 gallon with the same goal in mind, and it ends up moving my entire sandbed around behind the rocks. How low were you planning on putting yours, or did you have some other plan in mind?

I personally think sand looks much better than BB.

Tswifty
09/25/2008, 12:51 PM
It'll be a touch and feel type of thing, but I'm thinking something like this. I'll use my 3rd K3 in the middle if I need to... the height of them off the sandbed will be a touch and feel type of thing until I can get them placed right.

The K's will be on the back wall blowing forward and up. The MJ's on the side wall blowing across, then I'm going to move my return line to the back left corner, and have it blow towards the front right corner near the surface of the water for surface agitation.

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll128/tswifty8/Clipboard02a.jpg

Taqpol
09/25/2008, 01:13 PM
The propeller mod for MJ's is still a wide flow, not just a stream correct?

I also want to get a RK2 in preparation for my large tank, mainly for the ability to time my lights, the heater controller, and monitoring from a pH probe. As of right now if I got that i think my plan would be to run my current MJ900 (with sureflow) on one channel and a new MJ1200 sureflow on the other channel at opposite ends of the tank on a wave. My current K1 would be onstantly on in the middle/low of the tank keep detritus up or maybe surface agitation. More agitation would be nice because in the 20 gallon I currently have a problem because I don't actually have an overflow so gunk builds up on the surface water/air interface.

Does this sound like a good plan for flow?

D to the P
09/25/2008, 02:03 PM
Sounds good to me.

Taqpol
09/25/2008, 09:27 PM
Are the MJ's with sureflow ok for for a wavemaker? The RK2 has "soft start" for its powerhead cycle, but I don't know if that means anything...

D to the P
09/26/2008, 12:23 AM
I'm pretty sure they are fine a wave maker. I don't know much about the RK2, so the soft start might mean that it speeds up the powerhead slowly? Either way, you should be fine.

Tswifty
09/26/2008, 07:53 AM
FYI... someone started a thread on the MJ Mods. I'm going to be following it.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1478723

Taqpol
09/26/2008, 10:01 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13429069#post13429069 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Tswifty8
FYI... someone started a thread on the MJ Mods. I'm going to be following it.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1478723

Seems like they're saying some work perfectly and some are horrible and chatter until they break. From just those people its about a 50/50 shot...

I'll be following it as well.