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ScooterFish
09/26/2008, 10:02 AM
Hello Ladies and Gentlemen,

My finance Tracy and I (I'm Oliver) are very new to fish. She did have salt water fish while she was a child in California, but she did not maintain the tank.

We're having some problems. First of all we had a fish die today. It was salt water cat fish that had been doing very well for over a week. The other two fish are a clown fish and damsel fish. (They appear to be doing well)

The tank is a 14 gallon BioCube with coral base and live rock. Upon setting up the tank we used distilled water, instead of Deionized water, with Red Sea salt and it tested by the petstore. They said it was fine. I checked the salinity and it read a little high (close 1.03) with the specific gravity meter, again the pet store thought that was not a problem.

I will probably be getting the water tested today after work, due to the death of the little fella.

My concern is that ever since we got the cat fish, we're getting a lot of green algae. From what I have read it's due to nitrates and possibly lighting. I scrub the tank everyday, and I didn't have a chance yesterday. This morning there was a ton of algae and our dead cat fish.

Our living room has a lot of natural lightening. I am thinking of putting a towel over the tank during the day to keep the UV down. Is this a good idea?

Also should I drain the tank and change the water to De-ionized water.

I don't want to loose any more fish.

Please be kind we're new to this. Thanks Any other suggestions for a complete noob would be appreciated as well.

Johnny C
09/26/2008, 10:14 AM
I'm not an expert, but I can help with a few things:

-Your salinity is definatly too high... aim for 1.024-1.026 SG.

-Start doing water changes and top-off's with RO/DI water, this could be the result of some of your algae.

-Don't drain the tank, just do a 20% water change and don't use tap anymore (too many inpurities, too unpredictable)

-I don't think you need to go to the extreme of covering your tank during the day (this would REALLY take away from your overall appreciation for it, and hell... who wants a covered tank?)

I hope this helps a bit... sounds like your LFS is clueless.

Good Luck! :)

rogergolf66
09/26/2008, 10:17 AM
first off not don't drain the tank and start over. the clown and damles are very hardy Im sure they will be fine.

If sounds like this is a new setup? if so the green algea is a normal part of the tanks cycle. I would get some algea eating snails to help with it a bit. the recommended amount of snails would be about 1 per gallon of water. do some research or garf.org it will give you the proper type to get for each algea. I gave you the site because well the next part of the cycle will be red algea :(

when you do water changes from here on out use RODI water. The tank may not even be done with the basic part of the cycle. best to post water parameters.

Also don't just think that the LFS knows what it is talking about because most don't have a clue. sorry but they don't. there are some very good ones though. it is hard to find the good ones.

That salinity is very high 1.030 I would get then down. higher salinity will put more stress on fish then say a lower salinity of 1.022 I used that because the proper would be 1.026 and that war 4 less and you where 4 over.

also do everything slow in this hobby. even though you are .004 to high don't just fix it all at one time. fix it over the next few days .001 at a time.

good luck RC is the best place to get info IMO.

Roger

EllieSuz
09/26/2008, 10:32 AM
See if you can get a scientific name for this "Saltwater Catfish". I've never heard of this. Anybody else heard of such a fish? It might actually be a freshwater fish and that's why it couldn't survive in your tank.

Suggest you read the top two links on this forum. It will enable you to ask more specific questions because you've learned the basics.

[welcome]

IslandCrow
09/26/2008, 10:45 AM
If we're talking your run of the mill saltwater catfish, it must have been a baby. Either way, they contribute quite a bit to the bioload, so there's part of the algae problem. The two fish remaining in the tank are probably all you want in a 14g. If you haven't already be sure to read this article at the very least: http://www.reefcentral.com/modules.php?s=&name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=1. Salt water tanks are not difficult, but only if you have a certain baseline knowledge.

As for your more specific questions. As has been mentioned, a little algae is pretty normal in a new tank. Reducing the light exposure from the window will help, but it's not the root cause. In such a small tank, weekly water changes are pretty much essential. Distilled water isn't too bad, but RO/DI water will make your life much easier in the near and distant future. I think the salinity issue has been covered, and I think the average LFS is full of idiots has been covered (OK, idiots is a bit harsh, but sometimes appropriate). When the LFS tests your water, ask them what the actual results are. Don't take "your water is fine" for an answer. Ask them what your ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and phosphate readings are. The first two should be 0. The second two aren't really detrimental to the fish, but they can cause other problems, mainly algae related.

Anyway, do a little reading, let us know what your water parameters are, and keep asking questions. We're all here to help. Best of luck.

ScooterFish
09/26/2008, 11:10 AM
Thanks I really appreciate the help. We're definitely not giving up.

I am learning more and more everyday. The water salinity is just below 1.03. I'll get exact numbers tonight.

Also I'm going to invest in the water testing equipment, if it's not outrageous. One of the store employees is very knowledgable (I guess) he has a 300 gallon tank, but he's hardly at the store.

I'll probably pick up some snails after reading up on them. We're an animal friendly household so finding the dead fish was a shock and something we've feared. Yes he was a baby.

Again thanks for the kind replies. Very refreshening, as some forums are very harsh and tell you use the search function.
:)

spw4949
09/26/2008, 12:25 PM
A test kit is an absolute must have, you can pick up a quality test kit for around $15 plus shipping. I use API(aquarium pharmaceuticals inc.) and love it. I got mine on amazon for a very reasonable price. Definately very important to have.

JCJHET
09/26/2008, 01:43 PM
Plotosus Lineatus (saltwater catfish)

ScooterFish
09/26/2008, 01:57 PM
Yep that is the type of fish it was.

I went home early to check on the tank. I measured the salinity and it is 1.022-1.023 so initial statement was incorrect. Still real green here.

I cleaned the tank with the algae scrubber and removed the live rock and washed it off carefully.

Is removing the live rock a big no no? I clean it carefully with soft bristle brush.

I have 3 more questions.

1-Will the noise of a surround sound home theatre stress our fish? There's a speaker mounted close by.

2-When scrubbing the tank should I remove the fish as the water gets awfully cloudy when cleaning.

3-What is the optium temperature of the water to be for best results?

Thanks again.

ScooterFish
09/26/2008, 02:04 PM
Sorry 2 more questions. We were told by the LFS that we should be feeding them 1/2 -3/4 cube of Brine Shrimp daily. Does that sound excessive.

There are currently two fish in the tank. A Damsel and a Clown. RIP O.J. :(

Also someone @ work told me that Damsel fish are poor companions. Our seems very social to the other fish without being overly aggressive.

Toddrtrex
09/26/2008, 02:09 PM
Removing the rock in general is a no no. What did you wash it off with? If it was fresh water you would be killing off some ( if not all ) of the bacteria that is on/in the rock -- need that bacteria for the nitrogen cycle.

Get some test kits, knowing your ammonia, nitrates and nitrites will go a long way towards figuring out what is going on.

And odds are the damsel and the clown won't get along long term.

rogergolf66
09/26/2008, 02:35 PM
the noise will not bother them.

don't remove the fish when cleaning the glass. that would stress them.

Water temp 78-82 I keep my tank just above 80 but it really can range from 75-85 but not good to swing that much in a day or even two. the key is to keep the 24 hour temp swings near or less then 4 deg.

J.russell
09/26/2008, 03:24 PM
If you have problems with the pet stores over there on your side of the water make a trip over to the beach.

http://www.reefchief.us/

Jeff will help you out in any way he can. Its worth the trip man.

EllieSuz
09/26/2008, 03:34 PM
You will rue the day that you put a Damsel in your tank. They turn into vicious brutes and usually by then your rock work is exactly the way you want it and you end up tearing everything down to catch the fish.

Brine shrimp, unless it is freshly hatched, is nutritionally deficient. You might as well feed them styrofoam peanuts. There is a variety of healthy frozen mixtures that provide the appropriate nutrition for various species in your tank, whether they be herbivores or carnivores or both.

The most valuable lesson you will learn in this hobby is patience. Add fish one at a time and no less than two weeks apart, and then only when you are sure your cycle is absolutely finished. You and Tracy need to do some research but you surely have the necessary enthusiasm.

IslandCrow
09/26/2008, 05:12 PM
1-Will the noise of a surround sound home theatre stress our fish? There's a speaker mounted close by.

2-When scrubbing the tank should I remove the fish as the water gets awfully cloudy when cleaning.

3-What is the optium temperature of the water to be for best results?

1. Man, I hope not! I like to play my music loud. It doesn't seem to bother my fish, but that's not to say it can't. As I'm sure you know, sound travels quite well under water.

2. No, don't remove the fish. How are you scrubbing the tank, and how often? It really shouldn't get overly cloudy. Even still, it shouldn't have any bad effects on the fish. If you've ever gone diving or snorkeling after a storm, you know the ocean water can get extremely cloudy as well.

3. You'll get some varying opinions on temperature, but I'd say a good temperature range is between 75 & 85 degrees, and I generally shoot for somewhere around 80.

Very refreshening, as some forums are very harsh and tell you use the search function.

Unfortunately, you will definitely get your share of such people here as well. Some people just seem to forget that they were beginners at one point or think that if you make different mistakes than they make you must be an idiot. Do your best to ignore such people, and someone will eventually give you some constructive advice.

IslandCrow
09/26/2008, 05:21 PM
Oh, and for your last two questions:

- Assuming it's the normal sized cube, 1/2 to 1/3 does sound a bit excessive. As stated, brine shrimp isn't the best food, though enriched brine isn't too bad. Mysis or chopped squid are better choices. A cube of that will last my skunk clownfish a week. The big key to feeding is don't feed any more than the fish can eat in a couple minutes. I feed small bits of food slowly, so it generally doesn't last more than a few seconds in my tank. Also, though you'll hear people make it sound like it's the worst thing you can ever do, don't discount flake food. Good brands are quite nutritious, and though I don't feed it that often, I think it's something good to include in the fish's diet.

2. Damsels are generally viewed as spawns of Satan, but fish do have personalities, and though damsels are generally very mean (later if not sooner), it's not always true. Some species tend to be less aggressive, and even some individuals of traditionally aggressive species are very well behaved. Yours may get mean later, or remain a perfect angel.

J.russell
09/26/2008, 05:27 PM
Man I will never, EVER, tell anyone to get a damsel for any reason ever. My domino was satan! I fished him out last night. Literally, with a hook. He would not go into any fishtrap I tried.

ScooterFish
09/26/2008, 11:23 PM
I made some progress today.

I got a Siphon Vac and did a 25% water change with RO.
Got an API Saltwater Master Tester Kit. Also bought the magnetic algae scrubber. Works great.

Numbers

PH= 8.2
Ammonia= 0.00 - 0.15 ppm
Nitrite = 0 ppm
Nitrate = hasn't been tested, had some stuff to do.
Sanility = 1.021 after partial WC.

Water looks great and the 2 fish are very active!

Really appreciate everyones help!!!


:)

IslandCrow
09/27/2008, 07:46 AM
That looks pretty good, except your ammonia shouldn't really have a range. It should be undetectable with any hobby test kit. Also, make sure the water you use for your water change is the same salinity as the water in your tank, especially if you're doing a water change as large as 25% (which is about as large as you want to do under normal circumstances). The good news is, fish are able to adjust to lower salinities much more easily than they adjust to higher salinities. If the fish are active and eating well, they should be just fine. Getting your own test kit was a great idea, and many people seem to like the API, especially for the price.