Need help getting my Reefflo DART primed and started!

[ozkrogh]

Hey all,

I'm having the worst time getting my new system up and running. When I plug in my DART, I get an extremely tepid flow rate. I don't know if it's air in the line or what. Anyway... here's a picture of what I have:

http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq305/cnkrogh/DSCN2610.jpg

I don't have a ball valve between the bulkhead at the sump but I do have a threaded 90 inside the sump that I can cap off if I need to take out the pump for maintenance.

I have the 1.5" outflow headed up to a pair of 2" union ball valves. The manifold on the left is still a work in progress so I have that part shut off for now. The 1.5" Tee in between the union ball valves leads up to the return. I have another single union ball valve up here to control the flow if I need it. Right now, I have it shut while I was tinkering but it is obviously normally wide open. Above there the picture cuts off is the bulkhead into an external overflow. From there, the 1.5" pipe Tees again into locline returns that are 3/4" each. In all, the pump only needs to push the water up about four feet and while the Tee isn't optimal, I wouldn't expect it to cut down on the flow that bad.

Thanks!

-Chad

[matt 76]

If you open both ball valves to your return line, does the water backflow into your sump? Try letting that line fill up with water before you power it up. Looks normal as far as plumbing goes. You should get quite a bit of pressure out of 3/4 locline from a dart.

[ozkrogh]

One more piece of info...

I took a look at the Sequence website and it mentioned that new pumps can occasionally have a very tight seal. The screw on the end of the pump DOES turn... but rather slowly. Slow enough that I can keep my finger tip on it without discomfort and definitely nowhere near the 1350 RPM that the manual mentions.

With a brand new pump do I perhaps just need to let it run and "break in" or do I potentially have a bad pump?

[ozkrogh]

Hey Matt... yes, when I open up both ball valves, water does flow back.

Thinking I had a stubborn air pocket in the line, I took the first ball valve apart at the pump side union and with the sump plug not in place so I SHOULD have gotten water to equalize through the pump. I then plugged the sump side and manually filled the flex PVC with water as much as I could, re-attached the union, and bled the small air pocket upwards past the single union ball valve and another single union I have inside the external overflow that remains under water.

So doing all that, I feel fairly confident I've got the pump primed. I took out the plug and turned on the pump while opening the ball valves. The flow is still anemic to the point that a 1" gravity feed to a skimmer drains the overflow faster than the dart returns the water.

I'm truly lost as to what might be wrong.

[ozkrogh]

update...

Let the pump run for about 30 min or so last night to see if perhaps this is something with a tight seal on the pump that might break in after a little while. I opened up a 1" drain about 25% of the way to try and match what the pump was pushing at that time and noticed that it seemed like I would have to tweak the valve slightly to allow more flow over time to keep the sump level constant. Problem is.. after the 30 minutes I had only moved to around 30-35% open on the ball valve.

Still looking for help but it looks like I may be calling the folks at sequence later today...

[ozkrogh]

still stuck. Called Reeflo pumps 1-877 number for support and left my name number for a tech to call me back... that was about 5 hrs ago. Called again and the number rolls over to voicemail.

frustrating:mad2:

[sjm817]

What size plumbing are you using on the intake side?

[ozkrogh]

2" for everything on the intake side

[mpdharley]

Try taking the 90 off of the intake. From what I remember when I set mine up, the intake has to be easily flooded, meaning as straight of a line to the pump as possible.

Mike

[Freed]

Shouldn't make a differenct. Still has plenty of water to be able to suck into it.

[Freed]

Yeah, what Freed said.

[Freed]

I could see if there were air in the line from the elbow to the pump then but if not then it should work fine.

[sjm817]

Actually, when I first set up my basement sump with a Gen-X Mak4, I had a down turned elbow and the pump did not want to prime. I took it off and everything has been fine since.

[mpdharley]

Not putting a bend, of any kind, on the intake was the recommendation from Sequence when I set mine up. If nothing else, trying it can't hurt.

[areze]

if the pump is pushing water its primed. no way a bubble would stay in the impeller unless it was fully cavitated. it would get thrown out in about 2 milliseconds if it flows at all. sounds like something is binding to me. did you try taking the impellor manifold off and check that nothing is stuck in the intake/exit and the impellor is in 1 peice, ect.

[mpdharley]

On the tight seals issue, their site says to "Locate the flat-headed shaft screw at the rear of the mother, in the center. With the pump turned off, insert a flat-headed screwdriver into the screw and (while the pump is plugged in) give the screw-driver a clockwise twist. This should start a a sticky pump. Once the seals are broken-in this should no longer be a problem."

They also say that an elbow near the intake port will cause cavitation as well as pipe vibration. You can test this by restricting the discharge line and if the noise lessens then intake restriction is the cause.

[ozkrogh]

I did reach the folks at Reeflo this afternoon. They're MST and I'm EST so I originally called too early and then called back at their lunch time.

Their tech support was great to talk to. I walked through the setup I have and the person I talked with didn't think there would be any issues. I'd obviously have some head loss but not to the extent I'm seeing in actual flow. The pump IS spinning... the impeller is spinning... when it was still connected, I didn't get anything that sounded like cavitation noises. And interestingly, when I have the valves closed and the pump turned off, then simultaneously plug in the pump and open the ball valves, water actually flows BACK down into the tank through the pump and into the sump. A couple of small air bubbles burped though but not many.

I GREATLY appreciate all the feedback on RC this afternoon... so to answer some questions... I will probably see if I can get things put back together tonight and try without the 90 in the sump and see what happens. And when on the phone with Reeflo, I took the impeller housing off and even took the impeller out. It's in one piece and only spins with the motor shaft. Also, nothing stuck and the impeller doesn't appear cracked or damaged in any way.

I have an email with some pics off to Reeflo and based on the diagnostics we did over the phone, they're sending me a replacement impeller just in case. I'm still not going to rule out stupid user error... and two thumbs up to the Reeflo folks for their help.

[matt 76]

So how did it go? Instead of a elbow on your intake you could use a threaded bulkhead with a intake screen in it. Then you could pull it out and thread a cap into it, or like this
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii41/rickyrouster1/pumppic003.jpg

[ozkrogh]

Interesting... so you have a 90 coming out of the sump and before the ball valve and also it looks like it's all hard PVC between the sump and pump... any complaints about vibration with that? I was worried but after hearing and feeling the dart when plugged in, it's amazingly quiet and vibration-free.

I haven't had a chance to put the pump back inline but it's on the list for today.

[JRaquatics]

Probably not the case but check to see if there is a reeflo paddle impeller or a NW impeller.

[Freed]

Good idea. I received a replacement Aquabee 2000/L for my Deltec calcium reactor several months ago but it had a needle wheel for a skimmer instead of a paddle wheel.

[ozkrogh]

Here's the impeller... definitely not a NW:
http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq305/cnkrogh/DSCN2612.jpg

http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq305/cnkrogh/DSCN2611.jpg

[Freed]

Put it in your bathtub and see if it blows water on the ceiling when you plug it in.

[matt 76]

Now the bathtub idea is great! transfer the fish.........

No I don't get much vibration out of my pump being hard plumbed.
My hammerhead closed loop pump was a different story. I had it hard piped the same way as the other one. Now is has a blue marine grade 1 1/2 flexible hose. I bought some 1 inch also for the blueline 55 but never used it.


It's nice having the ball valves and unions to pull pumps. I would recomend sched 80 unions. They are sooooo much better.
FYI-- just finished installing new lumenmax elites:D :D

[ozkrogh]

lol at the bathtub idea! Not sure if the wife would be thrilled about that though. if it did actually work.

I got a follow up email from another person at Reeflo recommending I turn the 90 elbow up so I got the pump put back together and back inline. Still no luck. I get a very tepid flow rate but no air bubbles inside the tank.

With all the hassle, and especially if I have to tear the pump out again (which it looks like I will) I am considering putting a 90 elbow outside the tank and rotating the pump into a spot where I have room for a union ball valve between the tank and the sump and ditch the 1.5" rubber coupling I have to dampen any vibrations.

-Chad

[Freed]

Seriously, put it in your bathtub. Not seriously, don't let the water blow up and hit the ceiling. If it works in your bathtub it should be working in your sump. Put an elbow on it if you want to direct the outflow back into the tub or cover it with your hand.

[ozkrogh]

Update: New pump received today but it looks like the older model (AO Smith motor... not the Baldor). The good news is... the pump works! Flow is pretty decent now without any plumbing changes. Chalk this one up to bad seals or a faulty impeller... I'll let the folks at Reeflo figure it out when I get the old pump sent back.