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View Full Version : Best reef salt mix to use!!!


leonel04
10/05/2008, 11:17 AM
Hi all, I have been using Reef Crystals salt mix for a few months now and it's time to reorder and was thinking if there's another salt mix that will give me better results. Thanks..

modd77
10/05/2008, 12:37 PM
I switched from Reef Crystals to Reefers Best salt and am totally happy with the results. I run a zeo tank and for me it is right in range of NSW. I cut my water changes back to 5% of volume every 2 weeks, instead of 10% once a week with reef crystals. The downside is RB is expensive but I use less, which works out for me.

leonel04
10/05/2008, 12:44 PM
modd77, Makes sense if you pay more for the salt and you do less water changes it compensates itself, Where do you get it from?. Thanks.

skey44
10/05/2008, 01:15 PM
I have been using tunze labsalt in my zeo system and been very happy. Unless you are running a very low nutrient sps tank I don't think the switch is justified.

leonel04
10/05/2008, 02:42 PM
Thanks.

james3586
10/05/2008, 03:04 PM
Marine Environment salt is as close as you can get to the ocean. It has the correct formula for reef an fish only systems. I have been using this salt for over four years now. LOOK @ Aqua Craft,Inc online.

modd77
10/05/2008, 03:15 PM
i order RB from Eric at www.zeovitusa.com (**********)

leonel04
10/05/2008, 03:44 PM
Thanks..

LuisC
10/05/2008, 04:49 PM
I just switched to Tropic Marine Pro. Good salt but it costs 2x Reef Crystals.

Mark426
10/05/2008, 05:46 PM
The BEST I have found is D-D H2Ocean salt. I was from the school that most salts were more or less the same. That was until I started using it. This is by far the best salt of the 6 or 8 salts I have tried over the years. My corals seem to just love it. It actually mixes to the specs they publish and is quite consistent. Be ready to pay for it though...it aint cheap. In a large tank, it may be too costly.
http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~category~D_D_H2Ocean_Magnesium_Pro_PLUS_Salt_Mix_23.3kg_Bucket_Saltwater_Aquarium_Suppli es_Salt_Mix~vendor~Deltec~SearchStr~~action~view~idProduct~DD2213~idCategory~FISM.html

mfinn
10/05/2008, 05:58 PM
I've been using Instant Ocean since 1985. Tried a couple others, but always go back to IO.

leonel04
10/05/2008, 06:57 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13489529#post13489529 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Mark426
The BEST I have found is D-D H2Ocean salt. I was from the school that most salts were more or less the same. That was until I started using it. This is by far the best salt of the 6 or 8 salts I have tried over the years. My corals seem to just love it. It actually mixes to the specs they publish and is quite consistent. Be ready to pay for it though...it aint cheap. In a large tank, it may be too costly.
http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~category~D_D_H2Ocean_Magnesium_Pro_PLUS_Salt_Mix_23.3kg_Bucket_Saltwater_Aquarium_Suppli es_Salt_Mix~vendor~Deltec~SearchStr~~action~view~idProduct~DD2213~idCategory~FISM.html

Thanks, i think i'll go with this one..

firebirdude
10/05/2008, 07:18 PM
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1287118

Pick the one that suits your tank's needs.

Mako Shark II
10/05/2008, 08:36 PM
I stopped messing around and went with Oceanic.

It has a high concentration and it dissolves like, now.

Billybeau1
10/19/2008, 10:36 AM
I just finished testing the H2Ocean and it indeed delivers the numbers posted on the directions.

This is a very potent salt. Most salts I tested used 1/2 to 3/4 cup per gallon to get to 35 ppt (1.0264)

This salt needed only about 18 oz (a little over a cup) to get 3 gallons of water to 35 ppt.

I got 450 calcium, 10 dkh and 1380 for magnesium.

Pretty good numbers IMO. I'll get it added to my list. :)

areze
10/19/2008, 11:18 AM
maybe Im missing something, but how can 1 salt contain... more salt? I mean, the additives aside, 1cup of salt is 1 cup of salt is 1 cup of salt. and salt is the vast vast majority of these mixes(even if we assume 1 had more actual salt by volume, that would mean it had less of the trace ingredients, not a good thing)

just curious if Im missing something or did H2Ocean create a more dense salt substance lol.

I use seachem reef. works fine for me, price is right.

Billybeau1
10/19/2008, 11:22 AM
Moisture for one. :D

Many salts have more moisture adding to the weight of the salt. This salt appears to have very little moisture. :)

areze
10/19/2008, 11:27 AM
if it stays in crystal form, it shouldnt expand should it? it would also solidify if it got moisture in it.

if I leave a bucket of salt in a humid room, itll get hard as a rock, but it wont overflow the bucket...

biger
10/19/2008, 11:28 AM
It seems you would know if your salt had moisture. It would be all hard and clumpy.

Billybeau1
10/19/2008, 11:44 AM
All salts contain some moisture. Some more than others. This is a fact.

:)

areze
10/19/2008, 11:44 AM
but volume changes?

Billybeau1
10/19/2008, 11:47 AM
Water adds weight. Adds to volume ultimately. :)

kaskiles
10/19/2008, 12:11 PM
Differences in particle size and shape could cause one salt mix to pack more than another.

The majority of the size and shape would depend on the raw materials, but H2Ocean could potential round the particles out a bit more if they are using some high energy dry mixing techniques...

Maybe something like a ribbon blender mixing in their Ca and Alk could reduce the bulk density down below Red Sea salt.

Billybeau1
10/19/2008, 12:18 PM
Actually H2Ocean is produced by a solar evaporative process, much like Red Sea salt.

I do not know if this has anything to do with it or not. But I did notice the Red Sea seemed to have less moisture in it when I tested it.

iflyprops
10/20/2008, 05:28 PM
FWIW...

I volunteer out at the Georgia Aquarium and they use straight Instant Ocean.

Billybeau1
10/21/2008, 09:40 PM
We've known that for years.

Doesn't mean that is the best salt for everyones aquarium.

You can hardly compare a 3000 gallon tank to a 10 gallon nano. :D

james3586
10/22/2008, 10:05 AM
Does anyone use Marine Environment by Aqua Craft. Look it up on the www.Aquacraft.net the best place to get it is www.premiumAquatics.com This salt is the best I have used it over 4 years the calcium mag dkh everything test out perfect. you will save a lot on additives. Aqua Craft makes Bio sea as well as one more all are really good salt.

kdblove_99
10/22/2008, 10:24 AM
I have had good success with Reef Crystals

Mako Shark II
10/22/2008, 11:55 AM
A 60g Cube? Is it a (drilled) Reef tank? Self-Contained?

Billybeau1
10/22/2008, 11:53 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13597206#post13597206 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by james3586
Does anyone use Marine Environment by Aqua Craft. Look it up on the www.Aquacraft.net the best place to get it is www.premiumAquatics.com This salt is the best I have used it over 4 years the calcium mag dkh everything test out perfect. you will save a lot on additives. Aqua Craft makes Bio sea as well as one more all are really good salt.

Unfortunately, I have had bad luck with this companies product. I do not recommend it from my testing. :(

redfishsc
10/23/2008, 10:29 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13488043#post13488043 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by leonel04
modd77, Makes sense if you pay more for the salt and you do less water changes it compensates itself, Where do you get it from?. Thanks.



Not if you are doing water changes as an export of excess nutrients. You could use the most scientifically proven useful and most expensive salt imaginable and it won't dilute the pollution.

If, however, you have 0 nitrates, 0 phosphates, 0 silicates, (or any other pollutant for that matter) and have a really light load, then sure, you can scale back your water changes.

leonel04
10/23/2008, 10:33 AM
redfishsc, good point. Thanks..

bikeguy1
10/25/2008, 12:04 AM
I'm still pretty new to this but Reef Crystals seem to work good so far

rroselavy
10/26/2008, 11:48 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13576558#post13576558 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Billybeau1
I just finished testing the H2Ocean and it indeed delivers the numbers posted on the directions.

This is a very potent salt. Most salts I tested used 1/2 to 3/4 cup per gallon to get to 35 ppt (1.0264)

This salt needed only about 18 oz (a little over a cup) to get 3 gallons of water to 35 ppt.

If it takes you 18 ounces (510 grams) to get 3g of water to 35ppt, then that's 170 grams for each gallon of water. It takes me 700 grams of Red Sea Coral Pro to reach 35ppt in 5g of water, which is 140 grams for each gallon. In other words, by weight - H2Ocean is less potent.

I would therefore get 137 gallons of SW out of one (23.3 Kg) bucket of D-D, while I would get 157 gallons of SW out of one (22 Kg) bucket of RSCPro.

clownnrnd
10/26/2008, 01:32 PM
+1 for Tunze salt. Best I have used to this point.

chad

hahnmeister
10/26/2008, 03:33 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13585550#post13585550 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by iflyprops
FWIW...

I volunteer out at the Georgia Aquarium and they use straight Instant Ocean.

So that must explain why their tanks look so crappy (by hobbyist standards... Im sure the general public is always impressed with dying corals). Every time I go there, the Coral tank looks worse and worse, and the smaller displays usually fail and get cycled out.

IO is just easy to get in bulk for cheap. Thats all.

Reef Crystals seems to still have that 'brown scum' problem. I use it myself for skimmer testing because I can take a fresh tank or bucket, mix up some RC, put a skimmer on it, and within 1/2 an hour (if its a good skimmer) I have a dark yellow/brown head of foam forming. So Reef Crystals is great for skimmate production!!!

Some in my club have been going with Red Sea Coral Pro. It doesn't have the scum problem at all. Its actually produced by evaporating seawater in the Red Sea... they add some buffers, and thats the end product. So its not the finely crushed lab grade salt you get like IO/RC, and it takes longer to mix (no mixing and dumping on the fly like with some), but people have been reporting positive things with it... despite the semi-low Alk, Ca, Mg readings... but to me, those things dont matter because thats why you have a reactor.

tufacody
10/26/2008, 04:01 PM
I have a hard time believing that the use of any one salt over another can result in redcuced water changes, as stated in earlier posts. The bioload going into the water is the same regardless of the mix you use.

I suppose if your argument is that one brand of salt is lower in say, calcium, over another brand and thus it gets used up faster, then I would recommend simple dosing as the cheaper alternative. What ever salt you use has to be relatively balanced to begin with though or you are going to have chemistry problems right off the bat.

RC has always worked very well for me. I'm not sure what the "brown scum" that Hahn is referancing is all about. I've certainly never noticed that.

uhuru
10/26/2008, 04:05 PM
so Red Sea and DD are made by similar methods, but DD is way more expensive with better parameters...

uhuru
10/26/2008, 04:08 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13623836#post13623836 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by clownnrnd
+1 for Tunze salt. Best I have used to this point.

chad

I was about to order this until I realized it's quite expensive considering one bucket only makes 127g at 1.020 SG.

lamarine23
10/26/2008, 06:18 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13602723#post13602723 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Billybeau1
Unfortunately, I have had bad luck with this companies product. I do not recommend it from my testing. :(

Really???? What didn't you like about it? In my store and all my service accounts we have tried tropic marin pro, red sea pro, instant ocean, reef crystals, coral life, and kent. I recently switched to Bio Sea Marine by Aqua Craft and it blows everything away, water is clearer, no scum, parameters are good, it's consistent, and mixes to what it says!!

Marine Environment is even better and is also made by aqua craft. None of the other salts can compare to the visual results I have seen in these tanks.

Problem with billy's testing is he can't measure all the other stuff that manufacturers do to cut corners like using low grade chemicals that have a lot of other compounds/elements that are not found in sea water or in very low concentrations.

Salt is going to vary from person to person because they are going to go with what they use, while I have experience with a great variety of salts and have used them at length in various tanks of different sizes, my best recommendation would be to look at the aqua craft line and you will find the salt that best fits your needs (they make 4 or 5 variations).

BTW in case someone wants to point out that I am bias because I sell it that's okay but I have stated such already but I only recently switched and I can tell you that I can get all those other salts much easier with the exception of tropic marin pro from my local distributor but I chose to sell the aqua craft line instead. My 2 cents.

leonel04
10/26/2008, 06:27 PM
I just got the Reefer's Best, will try it out and see how it'll work for me... Thank you all for all the info, it has help me a lot.

Billybeau1
10/26/2008, 11:41 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13625367#post13625367 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by lamarine23
Really???? What didn't you like about it? Problem with billy's testing is he can't measure all the other stuff that manufacturers do to cut corners like using low grade chemicals that have a lot of other compounds/elements that are not found in sea water or in very low concentrations.

And you can ? How do you know ?

Please tell me what test kits you use to measure "the other stuff".

I buy a salt from this manufacturer, it tests alkalinity at 3.5 dkh, I email the company, and all the the company can say is I must have tested wrong and their salts are made from the finest ingredients.

Gee, that funny, I've tested about 15 other brands of synthetic sea salts with the same test kits and didn't have this problem. Hmmmmm

I was born in the dark.......... but it wasn't last night.



:D

BeanAnimal
10/26/2008, 11:56 PM
Aqua Craft... was that not the source of the "independent" "salt study" from several years ago that used dubious methods to skew the data trashed every salt on the plant and except the Aqua Craft products?

Billybeau1
10/27/2008, 12:22 AM
Yes BA. I remember that.

I do not believe that you sell salt by bashing the competition.

Turned me off from the get go. :(

I don't believe you stay in business very long with that strategy. Especially when you can not own up to the fact that you produced a bad batch of salt.

So sad.

BeanAnimal
10/27/2008, 12:25 AM
Wow.. reading that sentance above makes me wonder if I should have passed 1st grade english. Sorry for the poor proofreading folks :)

Yup Billy... and it was not so much the fact that study showed their salt to be superior as much as it was obvious that the "study" was complete BS. The entire site reads (read) like a pyramid marketing infomercial. Only excerpts from the study were posted and done so in a manner that prevented line by line comparison of the results. It appears that most of the "study" excerpts have since been taken down. I wonder why :D

lamarine23
10/27/2008, 12:34 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13626798#post13626798 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Billybeau1
And you can ? How do you know ?

Please tell me what test kits you use to measure "the other stuff".

I buy a salt from this manufacturer, it tests alkalinity at 3.5 dkh, I email the company, and all the the company can say is I must have tested wrong and their salts are made from the finest ingredients.

Gee, that funny, I've tested about 15 other brands of synthetic sea salts with the same test kits and didn't have this problem. Hmmmmm

I was born in the dark.......... but it wasn't last night.



:D

Dude tone it down a notch.....I have spoken to a major chemical distribution company and have received prices on some of the most common items such calcium chloride, mag chloride, mag sulfate etc.... there are some serious price differences when your talking purity and what I'm saying is after speaking to aqua craft (they claim to be the closest to NSW and use high purity chemicals)and seeing their product work how can I doubt what they claim? I have ordered several pallets over the last several months and can tell you that they have all been consistent.

I don't care for the S15 report myself which is the report being referred to above.....proof is in the pudding so to speak.

I hope that most people realize that I didn't once mention anything scientific in regards to me testing the salt but merely observations over extended periods of times on several different tanks; that to me is far more important than someone testing 3 elements in a salt mix!

BeanAnimal
10/27/2008, 12:57 AM
There was no complete "S15" report, as far as anybody can tell. It appeared to be no more than competative sales collateral crafted to look like excerpts from a report. That fact alone and fact that they at one time "spammed" forums with infomerical type posts turned at lot of people off. Billy is not the only person to report test results that do not match the claims.

Is it good salt? I dunno, but I will never buy it. I don't like shady sales tactics.

Billybeau1
10/27/2008, 01:04 AM
Dude........ I've voiced my opinion based on my experience with their product.

If you are having good luck with this salt, I'm happy for you.

I choose not to believe the bunk and won't spend one more dime on this manufacturer.

My choice. :)

This is a great country America. :D

leonel04
10/27/2008, 05:16 AM
Guys, please keep it friendly and professional. Thank you...

flyingphish
10/27/2008, 09:26 AM
imo the two best salts on the market are Reefers Best, which i use, and Tropic Marine Pro.

why? because they are chloride free. im sure there are others.

if i use anything else i get salinity creep because i dose two part.

if you are a two part doser you should be using a chloride free salt.

as for bio sea by aqua craft ive used it and did not like it for various reasons. it certainly did not take my reef to the next level.

BigJay
10/27/2008, 09:53 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13627996#post13627996 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by flyingphish

if i use anything else i get salinity creep because i dose two part. if you are a two part doser you should be using a chloride free salt.


I've found that the salinity creep from using two part can be easily offset by skimming a little wet with an ATO.

sminker
10/27/2008, 12:17 PM
hmm... interesting thread.

your water source is probably more important than what salt you are using.

go look through the picture gallery around here. alot of those nice reef tanks are using Instant Ocean. so whoever made that cheap comment needs to do more homework.

i use instant ocean with 000 TDS water from my RO/DI unit.

i have coraline everywhere, corals are doing great, water is crystal clear.

just buy whatever salt you can get cheaper. then spend your money on a good RO/DI unit.

there is no better solution than dilution. (aka: water changes)

lamarine23
10/27/2008, 02:10 PM
I can understand if you don't like them for what ever tactics you claim they did and like I said I don't put much stock into the S15 report so lets just give that a rest since I'm not claiming or standing by anything the report states all I know is the differences that have been reported by my customers as well as my own observations.

Tropic marin Pro was a total waste imo, when I tested the salt it was low in mag, ca, and alk (I still used it for 3 months) and it is super expensive even for a store, I guess my point is you can't simply dismiss a salt based on 3 parameters since there are many people that run very beautiful tanks with this salt.

BeanAnimal
10/27/2008, 02:45 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13629822#post13629822 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by lamarine23
I can understand if you don't like them for what ever tactics you claim they did I claim? Lets be honest here, honestly. The website reads like a Ron-Popiel infomerical. If your not a huckster, then why create a huckster website and bogus "newsletters" that are to give the impression that 3rd party independent writers are involved? Why lie about the competition with a trademarked "S-15" report that does not even exist (the full report has not been published as far as ANYBODY can tell).

and like I said I don't put much stock into the S15 report so lets just give that a rest since I'm not claiming or standing by anything the report states all I know is the differences that have been reported by my customers as well as my own observations. Why give it a rest? It is the very basis of Aqua-Crafts sales pitch and if we are talking about a product, we should talk about the company that produces it.

Lets also be very honest here. You have a vested interest (disclosed or not) in being kind to the product. You have an E-STORE that relies on sales of the product. Your "sales pitch" certainly sound a LOT like the sales collateral from the AquaCraft website. I don't fault you for standing behind a product you choose to sell, but don't fault me for pointing a wary finger at the same product because the OEMs sales tactics are more than a little dishonest.

Tropic marin Pro was a total waste imo, when I tested the salt it was low in mag, ca, and alk (I still used it for 3 months) and it is super expensive even for a store, I guess my point is you can't simply dismiss a salt based on 3 parameters since there are many people that run very beautiful tanks with this salt. I do not disagree with that at all. My point (if there is one) is that no matter how the AquaCraft salt stacks up to the others, I will not use it because I do not like hucksters. I don't imagine you are a huckster, so please don't infer that I meant that. You have a right to sell whatever product you see fit and I am sure you have your reasons for selling that particular product (you have articulated them here it looks like).

lamarine23
10/27/2008, 06:07 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13630059#post13630059 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BeanAnimal
I claim? Lets be honest here, honestly. The website reads like a Ron-Popiel infomerical. If your not a huckster, then why create a huckster website and bogus "newsletters" that are to give the impression that 3rd party independent writers are involved? Why lie about the competition with a trademarked "S-15" report that does not even exist (the full report has not been published as far as ANYBODY can tell).

[b] Why give it a rest? It is the very basis of Aqua-Crafts sales pitch and if we are talking about a product, we should talk about the company that produces it.

Lets also be very honest here. You have a vested interest (disclosed or not) in being kind to the product. You have an E-STORE that relies on sales of the product. Your "sales pitch" certainly sound a LOT like the sales collateral from the AquaCraft website. I don't fault you for standing behind a product you choose to sell, but don't fault me for pointing a wary finger at the same product because the OEMs sales tactics are more than a little dishonest.

[b] I do not disagree with that at all. My point (if there is one) is that no matter how the AquaCraft salt stacks up to the others, I will not use it because I do not like hucksters. I don't imagine you are a huckster, so please don't infer that I meant that. You have a right to sell whatever product you see fit and I am sure you have your reasons for selling that particular product (you have articulated them here it looks like).

Yes you claim!!!! I don't have any evidence of such, I'm not calling you a liar and I'm not denying that it happened I just don't have those facts....do you want me to say that it is true just because you say it is? That would be like me agreeing with the S15 report and I don't because there is nothing out there to back it, at least not that I'm aware of.

Give it a rest because I'm not using that as a basis for my recommendation.....it's really that simple. I don't know where your getting your info but I never stated I had an e-store but I do have a retail store which I have never mentioned the name of nor have I promoted any kind of sale.

I gave a recommendation and asked Billy a question because I wanted to get some additional info from a independent 3rd party about what issues they had so that I can look out for them.

I'm not pushing a sale here folks I'm giving an opinion based on 15 years of experience and 2 years of owning my shop and setting up over 20 high end systems ranging from 5,000 to 50,000 maybe I don't know what I'm talking about but I continue to design and setup very successful aquariums; I guess it could be just dumb luck I suppose.

Billybeau1
10/27/2008, 07:57 PM
I did not have any problems with the Marine Environment and actually it tested out pretty good. It was the other salt they sell that I had problems with. I think it was called Bio-Assey or something like that.

I'm glad the salt you use works for you. That's what it is all about.

I've always said, there is no "best" salt mix. Only the best salt mix for your tank. :)

BeanAnimal
10/27/2008, 08:26 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13631531#post13631531 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by lamarine23
Yes you claim!!!! I don't have any evidence of such, I'm not calling you a liar and I'm not denying that it happened I just don't have those facts....do you want me to say that it is true just because you say it is? That would be like me agreeing with the S15 report and I don't because there is nothing out there to back it, at least not that I'm aware of. Fair enough...

Give it a rest because I'm not using that as a basis for my recommendation.....it's really that simple. This is not a one-on-one conversation between you and me. I mentioned the report because it is relevant to the argument with regard to the manufacturers claims and practices. Your experiences have been noted but that does not mean that other opinions regarding the product or company should be shoved under the rug :)

I don't know where your getting your info but I never stated I had an e-store but I do have a retail store which I have never mentioned the name of nor have I promoted any kind of sale. I simply assumed by looking at your domain name that you sold online. My mistake. However, I did not accuse you of any wrongdoing. I offered that your opinion may be biased based on your assocaiation with the product, even if you DID openly disclose that you sell it. That is not a bad thing at all. I am biased towards the products that I sell. My argument is that I would not sell the products if I did not beleive in them. I don't sell anything I don't believe in. I would imagine (or hope) that you are the same. Your comments appear to indicate that you honestly believe in the product.

Sorry if I was not clear. My beef is not with you or your choice of product at all. I tried to articulate that my beef was with the sales tactics of the company more than it was with the product itself.

I am glad you are pleased with the product and have success using it to help grow you business and reputation.

lamarine23
10/27/2008, 08:37 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13632664#post13632664 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BeanAnimal
Fair enough...

[b] This is not a one-on-one conversation between you and me. I mentioned the report because it is relevant to the argument with regard to the manufacturers claims and practices. Your experiences have been noted but that does not mean that other opinions regarding the product or company should be shoved under the rug :)

[b] I simply assumed by looking at your domain name that you sold online. My mistake. However, I did not accuse you of any wrongdoing. I offered that your opinion may be biased based on your assocaiation with the product, even if you DID openly disclose that you sell it. That is not a bad thing at all. I am biased towards the products that I sell. My argument is that I would not sell the products if I did not beleive in them. I don't sell anything I don't believe in. I would imagine (or hope) that you are the same. Your comments appear to indicate that you honestly believe in the product.

Sorry if I was not clear. My beef is not with you or your choice of product at all. I tried to articulate that my beef was with the sales tactics of the company more than it was with the product itself.

I am glad you are pleased with the product and have success using it to help grow you business and reputation.

All is well thanks to you and Billy for clearing things up. I am very much on the same boat "I won't sell it if I don't believe in it" I've even taken it a step further in only selling items that I use so people can see the results first hand.

Billy, can you tell me exactly which one tested badly for you? As stated the Marine Environment is their upper echelon salt then Bio-Sea Marine, Coral Marine and then Meersaltz. If it is Bio-Assay I believe that is a different brand.

jman77
10/27/2008, 10:23 PM
"imo the two best salts on the market are Reefers Best, which i use, and Tropic Marine Pro.

why? because they are chloride free. im sure there are others.

if i use anything else i get salinity creep because i dose two part.

if you are a two part doser you should be using a chloride free salt.

as for bio sea by aqua craft ive used it and did not like it for various reasons. it certainly did not take my reef to the next level."

Um ........yea......

You have Chloride in your tank buddy .... and have salinity creep because you have a saltwater tank


I use Reef Crystals( and have for years) and use Calcium Chloride, Mag Chloride, or Sodium Bicarbonate to bring up the numbers if I have to.
Reef Crystals is cheap & works well.

I dose Randy's three part to keep the numbers up, as well as Turbo Strontium, Lugols, and Kent Iron.

garygb
10/27/2008, 11:43 PM
I was confused by the "chloride free salt." To have a chloride free salt is like saying you have hydrogen free water, isn't it?

jman77
10/28/2008, 12:08 AM
lol.... I make the comparison to oxygen free water, but yea..basically :)

Are they really pitching "chloride free salt." ?

Well , as they say , there's one born every minute .....

jddaniel
10/28/2008, 06:54 AM
I've been in this hobby for years and growing up through the 70's my parents had a primitive reef on todays standards. We've always used IO and in the last few years switched to RC for the added boost in Ca and Alk right out of the bucket. Both salts have worked out great as long as you continue dosing Ca, Alk, and Mg to match your tanks needs.
Other salts have been used over the years with only short term changes in the tank, ultimately I don't think you will see a long term benefit from using "high end" salts over a good quality salt whichever brand you may choose. If a company is marketing their salt as chloride free, please do some homework before you buy into a claim like this. It may be a great product, but don't by a product based on ridiculous claims.

Billybeau1
10/28/2008, 07:42 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13632768#post13632768 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by lamarine23
Billy, can you tell me exactly which one tested badly for you? As stated the Marine Environment is their upper echelon salt then Bio-Sea Marine, Coral Marine and then Meersaltz. If it is Bio-Assay I believe that is a different brand.

It was the Bio-Sea Marinemix. Tested 3.5 dkh for alkalinity if I remember correctly. :)

uhuru
10/28/2008, 03:26 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13633956#post13633956 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jman77
lol.... I make the comparison to oxygen free water, but yea..basically :)

Are they really pitching "chloride free salt." ?

Well , as they say , there's one born every minute .....

I remember reading many european tank threads where they use "chloride free salt," and I know it's mentioned in the balling method, I always wondered what that was... Perhaps they are using Na with some other element, technically a salt is just the product of an acid and base mixed together.

coralreeferhead
10/28/2008, 07:09 PM
What about Oceanic? My LFS says it top notch.

PS-I hate my LFS guy!

coralreeferhead
10/28/2008, 07:10 PM
By Oceanic I meant Instant Ocean-Sorry!

The0wn4g3
10/28/2008, 07:40 PM
FWIW, I worked at an LFS for about a year and all we used was Oceanic in a ~400 gallon mix-up tank. After said year, the entire mix-up tank was covered with a dark brown film inside. We had to rent a pressure washer to clean it all out. Huge hassle. Obviously, I'll never use Oceanic again. (This was about 3 years ago, hopefully they've changed the mix since then)
After Oceanic, we used IO. Mixed quick, and no brown film. Slightly low in Cal, but we did a lot of regular water changes and didn't keep any SPS, so it wasn't an issue. I bet we went went through hundreds of buckets- always consistent numbers. If you aren't running a very low nutrient system for SPS and such, it's a great salt, and I'd highly recommend it.
Since IO, I've started using RC. I like having the higher Cal and Mag. For some reason my system usually runs low in the ALK department, but a little Kent CB fixes that. The only think I really don't like is what Hahn was talking about, the brown film. I have to skim it off the top ever time I mix it up. It's like a thick white paste that settles on the top of the water and usually has light brown in the middle. I'm still on my first bucket, so I'm hoping the second won't have this problem. The IO was always excellent; odd that the RC seems "dirty" in comparison.

lamarine23
10/28/2008, 08:17 PM
I had the same issues when Oceanic first came out and then I decided to give it another shot at my shop 3 years later and I've had the same problem as you described above.

jman77
10/28/2008, 10:26 PM
"It was the Bio-Sea Marinemix. Tested 3.5 dkh for alkalinity if I remember correctly. "

Wasn't Bio-Sea the one that fubbared alot of peoples tanks ? Came out in a study as being the best, people switched over to it and lost all their corals ?

I've had the "film" problem with the newer buckets of RC that I have purchased. Not sure what causes it , but no problems as of yet and my corals do not mind.

flyingphish
10/29/2008, 12:52 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13637717#post13637717 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by uhuru
I remember reading many european tank threads where they use "chloride free salt," and I know it's mentioned in the balling method, I always wondered what that was... Perhaps they are using Na with some other element, technically a salt is just the product of an acid and base mixed together.

perhaps more people should read like you uhuru instead of make insults.

jman77
10/29/2008, 01:11 AM
Ok ,

"Seawater is water from a sea or ocean. On average, seawater in the world's oceans has a salinity of about 3.5%, or 35 parts per thousand (also expressed 35‰ or 35 ppt). This means that every 1 kg of seawater has approximately 35 grams of dissolved salts (mostly, but not entirely, the ions of sodium chloride: Na+, Cl-)."



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/22/Sea_salt-e_hg.svg/750px-Sea_salt-e_hg.svg.png

"Sodium chloride, also known as common salt, table salt, or halite, is a chemical compound with the formula NaCl. Sodium chloride is the salt most responsible for the salinity of the ocean and of the extracellular fluid of many multicellular organisms. As the major ingredient in edible salt, it is commonly used as a condiment and food preservative."


Now, explain to me exactly how this "Chloride Free" Synthetic Sea Salt works ? As well as, how quickly the SaltWater Creatures that you place in this "Chloride Free" water die .

Trying to market salt as Chloride free is almost as smart as the European's that started dosing Testosterone into their tanks and called it the new in thing!

Or, I might be totally wrong and this is some "new" thing that people who pay 3,000.oo for 50 gallon aquariums get to enjoy..... i've been wrong before.

:rolleyes:

flyingphish
10/29/2008, 01:42 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13633876#post13633876 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by garygb
I was confused by the "chloride free salt." To have a chloride free salt is like saying you have hydrogen free water, isn't it?

my bad, i should have been more specific.

it is best to use a NaCl free salt mix when using the balling method, or even "balling light" as i do.

read about it.

uhuru
10/29/2008, 04:05 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13641132#post13641132 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jman77
Now, explain to me exactly how this "Chloride Free" Synthetic Sea Salt works ? As well as, how quickly the SaltWater Creatures that you place in this "Chloride Free" water die .
:rolleyes:

I don't think the intention is to have chloride free water, the elements just come from different sources that are dosed throughout the day. I'm starting to think this is one of the main differences between the balling method and Randy's 2-part. I thought the NaCl free salt was supplemental only though. Obviously both work fine, so I wouldn't be so quick to judge.

As you can see, the creatures are really suffering:

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q309/leonardosreef/Formosa%20Forest/16web.jpg

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q309/leonardosreef/Formosa%20Forest/01web.jpg

hope Leonardo doesn't mind me posting pics of his tank! Maybe he can chime in and explain in more detail how it all works.

jman77
10/29/2008, 09:52 AM
Guys, how do you have NaCl free salt. ..

Randy's 2-part uses calcium chloride, Sodium bicarbonate, magnesium chloride/magnesium sulfate to boost up the levels that are already, yes that's right, already there . How can you label synthetic sea salt, a chemically compound rich mixture as it is, "Chloride Free" . I mean doesn't it have chloride ions bond all over the place ?

Isn't the Balling Method as described by Hans-Werner essentially the same things as Randy's 2 part / ESV B-Ionic with added Trace Elements ? His recipe outlines using Calcium Chloride, Sodium Carbonate, & Magnesium Chloride/Magnesium Sulfate as the bulk of whats added in.

I'm not a Chemist by profession, nor do I profess to know much at all about chemistry, but " chloride free " salt does not make sense.


I will stick with Reef Crystals until something better comes out that cost around the same, or there is a problem with the salt. If you know enough / care enough to test your levels, you can easily / cheaply add Calcium Chloride, Sodium Carbonate, & Magnesium Chloride/Magnesium Sulfate to bring up the levels to which you feel are acceptable. Do not get tunnel vision on what Salt the Germans are using for that is only one part of the equation. The border line fanatical dedication, attention to detail, and wiliness to dose everything from bacteria to hormones does add just a tad to the formula that creates a canvas for which their pictures are based off... remember, the same pictures that make you justify spending all that money on buying the "stuff" that "they" are using to create that canvas.

My point.... it's not JUST the salt...

*** Now if I'm completely wrong in my above ramblings, I apologize.

uhuru
10/29/2008, 01:07 PM
I did a search for Tropic Marin balling salt and pulled this from the glassbox design website (run by an RC member). I would post the link that I copied this from but it would probably get censored:

On to the True Balling Method or Balling Complete. The most questions are asked on this method in regard to the NaCl free salt used. NaCl free salt is literally synthetic salt mix without NaCl. The use of NaCl free salt is to maintain Ionic Balance when dosing Calcium Chloride (CaCl) and Sodium Carbonate (Na2CO3). Very few manufacturers make this. The most popular one we have come across is made by Tropic Marin. TM does state that this product is not available in the States, but if you do some research you can find it for sale in the U.S for ~$75.



The NaCl Free salt is added to the Magnesium Solution, leaving you 3 containers with the following ingredients:

Calcium Chloride Di-Hydrate
+ Strontium - Calcium
+ Iron - Zinc
Sodium Hydrogen Carbonate
+ Iodine - Boron
Magnesium Chloride-Hexahydrate & Magnesium Sulfate-Heptahydrate
+ NaCl Free Salt
+Various Supplements
At the very end you can see I add “Various Supplements”. This is generally where aquarists will add other additives such as vitamins or amino acids, but this can be done in the Ca and Alk solutions or an entirely new containers (#4) as well. There is no hard set rule, and with the addition of multiple dosing pumps the combinations are limitless.

Many of these additional Balling modifications have been given names such as Balling Complete or Balling Plus, however, the most well known version is Heinz Mahler’s Balling Complete Plus variation. I will not list it completely here as it is so long and also the most extensive we have seen. Using a total of six different trace element solution Heinz incorporates NaCl Free Salt, UltraMinS and the following elements:

Barium
Strontium
Cobalt
Copper
Zinc
Nickel
Chromium
Iron
Potassium
Iodine

So I don't think the regular TM or KZ salt is chloride free, but I could be wrong as well...

idareefer
10/29/2008, 01:14 PM
I use a mix of I O & coralife, very good results & price is always good.

Billybeau1
10/29/2008, 01:41 PM
I can see where that could possibly be a very good combination.

Good luck and keep us posted on how your tank likes it. :)

garygb
10/29/2008, 03:43 PM
Thanks Uhuru, that's a new one on me. I'm just so accustomed to equating sea salt as NaCl (with major and minor trace elements). For the time being, I will stick to salt mixes that attempt to replicate natural seawater (including the chloride). If the "NaCl free" salt becomes the wave of the future, then I'm sure I'll ride with it eventually.

golfish
10/29/2008, 04:22 PM
this tank was born around the end of 1999 and taken down in the spring of 2003.....IO salt mix was used 90% of the time

http://members.aol.com/sf49er1959/reefpics/feb22.jpg

my tanks are cursed now so it doesn't matter what salt I use.

flyingphish
10/29/2008, 05:20 PM
When I use aquacraft marinemix my creep is double as compared to when I use kz.

Just an observation

flyingphish
10/29/2008, 07:42 PM
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3248/2985737920_f9f885e20d.jpg


i just got home and checked my salinity. 36ppt. last h2o change was 1.5 weeks ago. it was at 35 then.

couple months ago i decided to try some aquacraft marinemix my buddies use at the lfs. gave me 2 bags to try out, good for 100 gallons.

it drove my salinity from 35ppt to 40ppt in about the same amount of time. took me about 1 bag to figure out what was going on, diluting less and less until i was doing changes with h2o mixed at 25ppt.

switched back to kz and no problems.

call me crazy.

lamarine23
10/30/2008, 01:41 PM
Their could be several different reasons why your salt is reading higher.

How exactly do you think it drove up your salinity??? What relation does salt creep have with the type of salt you use? I'm just curious here since I never heard or seen such a thing.

Canarygirl
10/30/2008, 05:03 PM
What relation does salt creep have with the type of salt you use? I'm just curious here since I never heard or seen such a thing.

Me too

gcarroll
10/30/2008, 05:42 PM
flyingphish - Did you measure the salinity of the fresh mixed Aquacraft salt prior to making the change? The way you are writing make me think that the 100g Aquacraft Salt mixed to a higher salinity than you other brand of salt you were using. If so, it looks like you got more salt for the money. Similar to what users of D-D salt report vs other brands.

MileHighFish
10/30/2008, 05:52 PM
i'v been using oceanpure and corallife.. i have had good luck with both.. i used IO for years b/c i like the bag...LOL

Billybeau1
10/30/2008, 05:56 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13650704#post13650704 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by lamarine23
Their could be several different reasons why your salt is reading higher.

How exactly do you think it drove up your salinity??? What relation does salt creep have with the type of salt you use? I'm just curious here since I never heard or seen such a thing.

Are you saying you've never seen salt creep or are you saying you've never seen a difference in salt creep between different brands of salt ?

lamarine23
10/30/2008, 06:10 PM
Of course I've seen salt creep...........

Billybeau1
10/30/2008, 06:30 PM
Well in that case, I've no difference in the amount of salt creep with any brand used.

I presume that's what you were trying to say ? :D

lamarine23
10/30/2008, 07:08 PM
Exactly, thanks for clarifying.