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ccradr
10/08/2008, 06:18 PM
Randy and team....Does it work?:eek1:

buck50bmg
10/08/2008, 06:51 PM
Yes

buck50bmg
10/08/2008, 06:52 PM
But the powers that be, dont like us to talk about it and will redirect you to the Zeovit forum.

ccradr
10/08/2008, 07:21 PM
MY BADD

HighlandReefer
10/08/2008, 08:45 PM
I found this quote by Anthony Calfo about the Zeovit System interesting:

"I have seen more than a few "zeo-tanks" in the US now as well as many throughought Europe (in Germany, Italy and Spain) and there are some commonalities to speak of.

IMO:

"Zeo-stragegy" is overall sound (albeit risky - see below) husbandry and can work with very good results when strictly adhered to.

It is not for the casual or poorly funded aquarist

It is very much for the Acroporid specialist (be sure you fit this description... see below)

It is "risky" in the sense that it aggressively manages nutrients to the extent that corals are walking a fine line of "colorful evident FPs and not overly fertilized zoox." That can (and obviously does vis a vis the reef and some beautiful Zeo-tanksin kind) work well for nearly fully autotrophic species (a corrupt generalization here... but meaning species that are mostly photosynethtic and not heavy organismal feeders) in tanks with decent fish loads (namely Acro displays)... but with any sudden change in nutrient levels or on systems with "hungrier" corals (less nearly autotrophic corals as most all we keep are other than Acros, Xenia, eg)... it can be dangerous.

And finally... it is not for casual intermediate aquarists or beginners at all because of the discipline required to apply it, the knowledge required to understand and finesse it... and the very focus (Acroporid displays) of its intended use (IMO) which preclude beginners necessarily (we do not recommend Acroporid tanks for most newbies).

Zeovit strategy is but one of the many successful ways to run a reef tank. And if you fit the above criterion, then you may well be suited for it."

Anthony Calfo

The above quote is found in this link: http://forum.marinedepot.com/Topic25866-13-1.aspx

bertoni
10/08/2008, 09:47 PM
The Zeo supplements generally have undisclosed contents, and there's no careful studies done of their effects. They might be more useful than other supplements, or no supplements, or might not.

buck50bmg
10/09/2008, 04:11 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13511448#post13511448 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bertoni
The Zeo supplements generally have undisclosed contents, and there's no careful studies done of their effects. They might be more useful than other supplements, or no supplements, or might not. Like I said...."blackmagic"

Randy Holmes-Farley
10/09/2008, 04:38 AM
But the powers that be, dont like us to talk about it and will redirect you to the Zeovit forum.

That may be true if you are asking for details on how to use it, but certainly not for comments on chemistry issues relating to it. There are no subjects relating to reef chemistry in any way that are inappropriate for this forum.

That said, zeovit itself doe snot reveal what is in its bottles, so it can be hard to have much in the way of an intelligent discussion of many aspects of it.

Does it work?

The first question is, how do you define work. In other words, what do you want it to do for you?

It certainly can help reduce nutrients, if that is the goal.

buck50bmg
10/09/2008, 05:17 PM
Im assuming you are a smart individual.... with the hyphenated name and all.

Why would Zeovit tell us whats in the bottle? That kind of defeats the point of having a product that works and trying to make money off it........

Randy Holmes-Farley
10/09/2008, 05:41 PM
Im assuming you are a smart individual.... with the hyphenated name and all.

:lol:

No need to assume anything. I was smart well before I hyphenated my name. :D

Why would Zeovit tell us whats in the bottle? That kind of defeats the point of having a product that works and trying to make money off it...

Does it? My company makes billions of dollars a year off of products that we tell folks exactly what they are. We protect them with patents.

If you choose to not use IP protection, you can still tell folks what is in it and still make money.

ESV tells people what is in their products, like B-ionic. They still make money.

American Marine tells us what is in Selcon, but they still make money.

Bulk Reef Supply not only tells use what is in their products, but sells them as individual ingredients to make your own. They make money.

I could list many more who tell us what is in the product, as well as some who do not.

I frankly would never add something to my tank without knowing what was in it, unless I trusted the manufacturer so much that I was willing to trust my tank to their decisions. I can count on one hand how many reef chemistry companies I would trust like that. if you feel that was about Zeovit (or whatever the company supplying it is called), that's great and you should consider using their products. :)


Do you use their products?

HighlandReefer
10/09/2008, 05:46 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13516476#post13516476 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by buck50bmg
Im assuming you are a smart individual.... with the hyphenated name and all.

I find that most all the reefers on RC conduct themselves in a respectful manner, but you Sir are a pinhead. :D

buck50bmg
10/10/2008, 10:06 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13516688#post13516688 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by HighlandReefer
I find that most all the reefers on RC conduct themselves in a respectful manner, but you Sir are a pinhead. :D

I give respect up to the point when I dont get it anymore.

Randy Holmes-Farley
10/10/2008, 10:23 AM
Someone here disrespected you?

Mike O'Brien
10/10/2008, 12:34 PM
That said, zeovit itself doe snot reveal what is in its bottles

Randy, you often talk of this "doe snot". Is that part of the Zeo method. :lol:

Randy Holmes-Farley
10/10/2008, 01:07 PM
:lol:

Yes, I do type that a huge amount as I try to type fast. The spell checker does not flag it, so it often sneaks by. :D

buck50bmg
10/10/2008, 01:21 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13520578#post13520578 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Randy Holmes-Farley
Someone here disrespected you? Do yourself a favor and get back to work!

Randy Holmes-Farley
10/10/2008, 01:24 PM
Do yourself a favor and get back to work!

Huh?

Which work?

Answering chemistry questions here, as I'm trying to do now on my own time, or developing life saving drugs for folks like you, which I've spent much of today already doing?

bertoni
10/10/2008, 02:16 PM
Okay, let's end the sarcasm, intended or not, and stick to the science. Randy seems more than capable of managing his own time.

Firochromis
10/10/2008, 03:23 PM
Thanks for all these information and patience, Randy..

Randy Holmes-Farley
10/10/2008, 03:59 PM
You're welcome.

Happy reefing. :)

reign
10/11/2008, 07:51 AM
I second that!!thanks Randy..
This is similar to the Marc Weiss products of years ago ..No way of knowing what is in them..
Locally we had individuals telling everyone bactervital is the cure all for new aquariums.."come one come all put bactervital in your new aq. and anything will live I guarantee it"(of course they would never really guarantee it).. very good for lfs making $ money, long term not good for aquarists..There is an inherent risk associated w/ using something that you have no clue to its real contents..

Percula9
10/11/2008, 10:16 AM
I hate when people use the forum to bash other peoples opinions. I have encountered this before myself. People need to be more interested in helping the person who made the original query. Once a snide remark is made, people can't help but respond to it. This unfortunately gives it power. The best thing to do is not to respond to these people.

Mike O'Brien
10/11/2008, 11:34 AM
Who bashed someones opinion ?? The question was if it worked, the answer was yes. The rest of the thread is just people messing with each other. Actually the only opinion that was posted was a quote from Anthony. Nobody bashed that opinion.

Randy Holmes-Farley
10/11/2008, 02:30 PM
Anyway, let's focus on the chemistry. That's our favorite topic, isn't it? :)

2thdeekay
11/23/2008, 10:55 PM
I love the chemistry forum. It's not just the information, but the entertainment itself is worth the yearly membership. :rollface:

Thanks guys!

Todd March
11/24/2008, 01:09 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13516649#post13516649 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Randy Holmes-Farley
...I frankly would never add something to my tank without knowing what was in it, unless I trusted the manufacturer so much that I was willing to trust my tank to their decisions. I can count on one hand how many reef chemistry companies I would trust like that. if you feel that was about Zeovit (or whatever the company supplying it is called), that's great and you should consider using their products...

I think this is sound advice, Randy. And for me, KZ is one of these companies. It's bothered me since day one that Pohl will not disclose the ingredients of his Zeovit products. And this annoyance continues, as even now I would very much like to see the spectral graphs for their T5 lamps; it drives me nuts to use lighting bulbs and not know the spectral peaks, particularly for multiple T5 setups where I am customizing the spectral array myself...

However, over the last 5 years, Pohl and KZ have never let me down, and have in fact, provided me with two phenomenal reef aquariums, focusing on Acroporidae, with very little guess work to keep nutrient levels very low and colors in genetically colorful corals very high. After a terrible infection in 2002, from a bristleworm/fireworm that stuck in my finger, procured from harvesting chaeto in a fuge, I was looking for an effective and streamlined system to keep SPS corals. Zeovit has provided that for me, and given me much better results with nutrient reduction than I ever had with refugiums, plenums, or denitrification filters.

I don't use all of the Zeovit products (and there is a lot), but the ones I have used, in the end, delivered what they promised—from providing gentle carbon dosing to decreasing zooanthallae within Acropora tissues. The worst thing I can say about many of the Zeovit products is that they are not needed for a dynamic reef aquarium, particularly for American tanks where darker colors (Purple Monster, GARF Bonsai) are generally more prized than in Europe.

I have come to accept that the ingredients within Zeovit products are a mystery, and am reluctant to try many Zeovit products because of this; however when you see the many copies of Zeovit on the market (and some with rather blatant marketing) you can maybe begin to understand why Thomas Pohl made the decision to keep things a secret. This is a hobby where any and everything is routinely ripped off to make a quick and easy buck (the amount of companies bringing things to the market with little, if any, research and development, is to me, much more dangerous for most people's tanks than not disclosing the active ingredients in effective time proven products that are being emulated at an every increasing rate).

2thdeekay
11/24/2008, 12:39 PM
I did regain compusure after laughing hard last night.

I very much appreciate Randy and many others who freely share good info. This sharing of (non-proprietary) info/science is a huge benefit for me and many hobbyists.

Thank you Randy! :thumbsup:

einsteins
11/24/2008, 01:50 PM
Well said Todd March....

I might add too that any bad reputation or bad occurances that happen with Zeo products come mostly from people NOT on the system, who are looking for a quick cure or overnight coral coloring solution. They use the products with disregard for how they are meant to be used....

eins

Randy Holmes-Farley
11/24/2008, 02:10 PM
Thank you Randy!

You're very welcome.

Happy reefing. :)

Todd March
11/24/2008, 08:42 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13808777#post13808777 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 2thdeekay
I did regain compusure after laughing hard last night.

I very much appreciate Randy and many others who freely share good info. This sharing of (non-proprietary) info/science is a huge benefit for me and many hobbyists.

Thank you Randy! :thumbsup:

Do fill us in, 2th, what bemused you to such an extent....?

2thdeekay
11/24/2008, 11:34 PM
Do fill us in, 2th, what bemused you to such an extent....?

Thanks for asking Todd. It wasn't your post at all, in case that's what you're wondering. You made your point very well, as did eins. :)

It's just unfortunate (but sometimes entertaining) when a select few can't behave like everyone else, on a public forum. :jester:

-2th