adding yellow tang to my list this week...

[mindytoy]

paid for it already, now whats a good way of acclimating him and adding it to my display tank? i dont think ill quarantine since the store is very close (5 min away), and im doing a dark 3 days for some algea to go away. tank has been cycled 2 months ago. the tank is good, and coraline everywhere running for about 4 months or more. i have many shrimps and crabs and snails, 2 ocelaris who were stocked over a month ago, and a watchman goby who was stocked 2 weeks ago. everything is doing good and my girlfriend bought me the tang which i have reserved at the LFs.

anyways, since i wont be quarantining him, whats a good method? should i add him with the lights off or after the lights off period?

i heard open the bag in a container and drip some of my water on the bag slowly. then net him and add him to the display...

is this right? ill take an hour or so or 3 to do this...

[Kieth71]

I just bought one from a very reputable place near me and he ended up having flukes...he is now in qt in prazipro..do yourself a favor and qt him.

[mindytoy]

well i have a QT set up, but since i dont have many fish i was thinking of not QTing him.. i think its way more stressfull for the poor guy...

[Kieth71]

This was the first fish i added to my tank..in retrospect it would have been less stressfull to qt him and treat with prazipro and cupramine for 5 weeks then it was to have him in display tank for almost 4 weeks..then have to tear the tank apart to catch him then put him in another tank.

[SaltyDr]

Tangs are notorious for developing ich. Since you have other fish in the DT, and you have a QT, I would most definitely QT him. Drip acclimation over an hour or so is best. Personally, I float the bag for 10-15 minutes, then begin adding 1/2 cup of tank water every 5 minutes for 30-45 minutes. Net him if you can in the bag so as to not introduce "foreign water" to your tank. You'll have to do this in to your QT and again when you move him to your main tank.

[Elan L.]

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-10/sp/feature/index.php

[mindytoy]

see i have a friend who had a blue hippo for 2 months in quarantine, super healthy and fat. he put him in the display, took precautions, acclimated, etc, and he broke out with ick.

i just dont see if my LFS doesnt get ick from having them shipped, theyve had him for 3 weeks already and he's healthy.

but i mean if he is healthy isnt that like being quaranteed in the LFs tank?

i do understand the quarantine process, and im thinking of adding to DT like my other friend does, he has 3 tangs and none were quaranteed and all are doing great...

and my other friend i mean thats dumb he quaranteened him for 2 months and 2 days after the display he is full of ick, and he wasnt harrassed ther was only a watchman goby..

anyways it just seems that the LFs having him for about a month, hes eating, no ick, then he should be good to go into my DT? whty waste time and streess him out more by adding him to another tiny tank, then later moving him to the DT?

i understand if the LFS got him 3 days ago...but almost a month?

[Kieth71]

You sound like you have kind of made up your mind on this already...i had this same thinking as you a month ago.I was wrong and i am paying for it.I doubt your friend treated the tang for ich and just watched him.I plan on treating any fish i get with prazipro and cupramine .If they have disease they will be cured if not i will have the peace of mind to know that i am not putting disease in my tank.Its your choice and your tank so do as you will but do think about what will happen if the fish does have disease and infects your display tank.

[mindytoy]

yeah i know ill have to go fishless and QT all of them. so you reccomend Qting him for 6 weeks and dosing what exactly? all i can get is rid ich and Kent products here locally...

what about a freshwater dip? how is this done? if i decide to add to display w/o qt, whats the best way?

[Kieth71]

I have heard that a fw dip is a good idea with new fish especially when buying say through the mail since it will clear parasites in the gills and make it easier to breat if it has parasites but since you are getting a fish you have already looked at from a lfs and can already see that it isnt having trouble breathing and is eating well i would not do a fw dip.The way i am gonna go from now on is to use prazipro(for flukes) for 2 7 day treatments.Then i will run carbon for a week then dose cupramine(copper) for 10 days.This is my plan anyways i am sure more experienced people can give there opinions as well .

[mindytoy]

any kent products?

so put him and aclimate him to QT, then dosing the 10 gallon qt with copper and leave him there for 5 weeks or so?

also some people are way too uptight about acclimating, a guy i know took 3 hours to acclimate, 2 to float and one to have the same water. i think it would have been better to do it all in 45 minutes. maybe float for 20, then open bag and add s bit of water from DT over a period of 30 minutes and adding him to the tank? i mean a 3 hr being in a bag would stress me out!

[Kieth71]

I have never gotten a fish through mail order before but when you do they have been in a bag for a long time so aclimation needs to be much more slow.I use the drip method and usually do it for 1 hour to 1/1/2 depending on what i am aclimating(inverts i do very slow).I dont have any medications bye kent so i am not sure what they make that is the same as prazipro and cupramine.

[tmz]

A couple of thoughts

Acclimation. Bag water for shipped fish is usually loaded with CO2 from the long confinement and ammonia and ammonium(the non toxic form of ammonia).When the bag is opened the CO2 blows of and equilibriates with the air causing the ph to rise quickly. The rising ph causes the non toxic ammonia to become toxic ammonia.So it is imprortant to get the fish out of the bag once it is opened relatively quickly to aviod a harmful exposure to ammonia.Ph adjustment as a practical matter is virtually impossible since the ph will spike when the bag is opened .

However, shipped fish are many times shipped in low sg water as low as 1.015. Moving a fish to a higher salinity of 1.025 or so will not give the fish time to osmoregulate and it will dehydrate and be very stressed. In fact an sg adjustment of .001 or .002 per day is optimal and obviously impractical in normal acclimation procedures. I find it better to adjust the sg in the qt tank to the level of the bag water. Most shippers will tell you what it is. Then float the unopened bag for 30 minutes or so for temperature adjustment and then remove the fish out of the bag into the qt tank.

With the lfs purchase you have made, confinement will be short so a longer aclimation in bag water will be without the same risk.

I do not have advice that excludes a well set up qt with hiding places and solid ammonia control. Prophylactic treatment is a matter of choice. Personally, I use a formalin bath pre qt and cupramine in qt for the first 14 days. Many opt for different treatments or just observation.

[nikon187]

sometimes fish need a 3 hour acclimation depending on how off the levels in the bag are compared to the new tank. On average i acclimate for 1.5-2 hours

[mindytoy]

well im not getting a shipped fish. its been in the tank for a month and healthy (looks and feeds). thats why im saying if he didnt get ich from a 24 hr dark shipping period and long LFS acclimation, it doesnt make sence to why he would get ich on a 5 minute drive, but i know its possible...

so i should just acclimate him n QT for 14 days if no signs?
what should be the water specs in the QT?

[fatdaddy]

My Yellow Tang had Ich. I'd reconsider the QT. It's not that stressful on the fish.

[mindytoy]

i have decided to QT. i will be checking the QT water and make sure its the same as my display. then i will look at the tang for about 3 weeks if no signs of ich i will acclimate him to the DT within 30 min (basically temp and any small dif in salinity).

also, what do i feed it whil in QT? those omega flakes with garlik?

[EllieSuz]

Good decision. This also gives you time to experiment with different foods without the competition of other fish to interfere.

[mindytoy]

never thought of that. is my 10 gallon big enough though? it has an established filter on there the HOB ones...

what should i feed him while hes there?

[r0bin]

Not trying to start a war here because I think QT is the way to go, but if I only had a 10 gal to QT a yellow tang in I would take my chances and put it in the display. I would ask the petstore if they use copper in their tanks also. If they do and they have had it a month you have better chances of it not gettting sick. There is no way I would QT a yellow tang in a 10 gal, talk about stress, and it would be very hard to keep the water quality good. Tangs are eating and waste machines.

[Indymann99]

I have found that most LFS run low salinity in the fish only tanks (reduces Ich and prob saves $$ on salt). My preferrred LFS runs around 1.015 for most of the fish tanks.

I use the following methodology:

1. I keep my QT tank running almost all the time incase it needs to become a hospital tank. I usually keep the salinity at 1.022 or so (I have read that fish can easily go to a LOWER salinity, but the other way around makes osmoregulation difficult).

2. When I purchase a fish from LFS I have them check the water and tell me the results.

3. Typically I need to lower salinity in my QT when I get home (easy to do just add RO). I do this while floating the bag for temp aclimation.

4. Drip QT water into bag for 30min (bag overflowing into secondary container).

5. Net fish (so as not to transfer any LFS water or waste in bag) and place in QT.

6. Observe in QT for 3-4 weeks and medicate if necessary.

7. Week 3 in QT, I start to raise salinity RAISING it VERY slowly over a period of 7 days to get to the level of the Display Tank (1.025). It is easy to raise the salinity slowly just dont add as much RO when you top off for evap.

8. Week 4 in QT simulates the DT as closely as possible. Due to the nature of QT sometimes low levels of Ammonia are unavoidable.

9. Transfer from QT to display is relative easy, I lower water in the QT (makes netting easier), net the fish and transfer directly to the Display tank.

Everybody has a preferred way this is what works for me.

[mindytoy]

see thats what i was thinking, at the lfs they are in 55 gallons. i dont think they use copper, because i think their entire system is one single system one huge sump etc... well actuall the fish have their own system and the corals/inverts have their own. i will ask. so then i will not QT then, ill take my chances on this one since he is like 3"s. maybe if he was a measly inch then id QT him for sure...

so whats the best way to acclimate him step by step?

[r0bin]

Well you could also consider getting a larger QT tank. Again, I am for QT'ing but in this situation if you cannot get a larger QT I would not do it. As far as acclimating I just float the bag for 15 minutes and let the fish go, but I do not allow the petstore water into my tank. The fish store I buy froms salinity is not low though. Also, ask about the copper, if the systems are separate they may use copper. If you end being successful and the fish does not have ick, I would not make it a habit of not Qt'ing though. Also, do not ever use a net on saltwater fish and get some nori for the tang. Feed it nori 3 times a week at least to keep it healthy. Good luck they are beautiful fish.

[mindytoy]

they sure are. ill see what i do...should i do it when my lights are off though or once they are on? will the tang most likely hide or swim around right away? so nori weed and a clip? how much seaweed though? and why not a net?

[r0bin]

Nets can injure fish. I have had it happen. If the fish flop around in the net while in transfer they can rip their fins and this can lead to a bacterial infection. I had this very thing happen to a lemon peel angel. Use a cup for transfer or like a clean rubbermaid container from your kitchen for something the size of a tang.

Its good to have the lights off and leave them off for the remainder of the day. Its a very good sign if the fish exhibits normal swimming and such right after being added to the tank, doesn't mean you are out of the woods though. I find the way I add fish to my tanks they exhibit normal behavior quicker and generally eat right away. I try to make the transfer as quick and smooth as possible.

You can get nori in the Asain section of the Grocery which is cheaper than buying it from the fish store. Just attach a 1 to 2 inch square three times a week. Also it is good to soak it in vitamins occasionally, like Vita-chem. The algae and the vitamins prevent HLLE.

Also, since you have decided (it sounds like) not to QT make sure you have a plan for what you will do if the fish does break out with ick. Think ahead.

Again take this info with a grain of salt. Plenty of people on here can and will disagree with the info. I have given you. Especially the way I aclimate. This method works for me but I buy from a reliable pet store that does use copper in their tanks.

[Amoore311]

In your situation I would skip the QT Process.

Don't take to long to acclimate your fish either. I do a 1 Hour Drip Max for fish. Typically it lasts closer to 1/2 hour though.

Also, don't net your fish. Just put a disposable latex glove on and put him in by hand. I put on 3 gloves as added protection so I didn't get spiked from my Tang's Tail. I'm sure it wouldn't have helped, but I thought it would at the time lol.


When your QT Herbivores like tangs, it's also best to skip the copper if treating for ich. Just use Hypo Salinity and you should be fine. Copper messes up the bacteria in their digestive system.



Not that I am trying to condone skipping QT, but if Ihad to skip QT on 1 Tang, it would be a Yellow Tang lol. Those guys are near bullet proof if they are the Hawaiian caught ones.

[r0bin]

agreed^^^^^^^^^

[tmz]

The 9 step acclimation process noted above is a good one. However , I don't think ammonia should be tolerated at any level.

In my opinion you should qt the fish. 10g is small but better than dumping him in your display.. Use a 20g or larger or even a rubbermaid bin. No qt equals a risk of ich or other disease not only for tang but for your display tank as well.

QT is not really a debatable issue as far as I'm concerned so I won't engage in argument about it. Advice not to qt is simply wrong in my opinion.

[Amoore311]

Advice not to qt is simply wrong in my opinion.

Open up your mind a little to different situations then. The point of QT is not only to check for disease, but to make sure the fish is eating, and give it a relatively calm transition into the hustle and bustle of your display tank.

Putting an averaged sized yellow tang in a 10 gallon tank is only going to stress it out beyond belief. It's highly unlikely the fish will even make an attempt to eat in this time period.

I went through this with my Powder Blue Tang. I only had a 29 Gallon QT for him. He would just pace the glass all day and never eat. I still kept him in the tank for 2 weeks, but he was way to thin for me to keep him there any longer.

He showed no signs of disease, so he was toss into the display after lights out. Low and behold, no problems.... and he started picking off the rick almost instantly.

Now I agree the best answer is to, "get a bigger QT Tank". That isn't always an option. The next response you will give is undoubtedly.... then don't get the fish. This argument I can't really say anything against.... So sue me.


In this situation where this is his first fish, its a Yellow Tang, and he only has a 10 gallon QT available. It would undoubtedly be extremely counter-productive to try and put that fish through that kind of QT process.


For future additions get a 30 gallon breeder for QT. For this time I would say go ahead and put the Yellow in there. Be prepared to pull him out if he gets Ich though.

[mindytoy]

i will. i wont QT this one. maybe if he was tiny but hes pretty big. hes healthy and fat too bright yellow. the best one from all the other tangs. if he gets ick, then do i have to QT my clowns and goby too or just him?

i havent quaranteed corals inverts or clowns or gobie and they didnt get a single hint of ich, they just explored and ate...

i think im picking him up on tuesday as well as a red starfish. wish me luck guys ill try to post pics of him. and my LFS uses copper only if they get a diseased fish. so i wont be dumping the water into my DT just the tang.... what im thinking is with close hangers hanfg the open bag inside a small bucket. then do small drip steady drip, going into the bag. once its full it will come out and spill in the bucket. then get one of those salad bowls with the holes at the bottom, and slowly tilt the bag with the fish until most the water comes out, then slide him off the bag, and from the bowl into the DT and observe him for a couple of minutes. in an hour offer some seaweed. im sure his addition will calm my clownfish since they are always fighting, and the big clown wont be the dominant anymore :)

sucka'

[tmz]

Amoore311. I have an open mind. You are just wrong.

[otrlynn]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13523210#post13523210 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mindytoy
i will. i wont QT this one. maybe if he was tiny but hes pretty big. hes healthy and fat too bright yellow. the best one from all the other tangs. if he gets ick, then do i have to QT my clowns and goby too or just him?

i havent quaranteed corals inverts or clowns or gobie and they didnt get a single hint of ich, they just explored and ate...

i think im picking him up on tuesday as well as a red starfish. wish me luck guys ill try to post pics of him. and my LFS uses copper only if they get a diseased fish. so i wont be dumping the water into my DT just the tang.... what im thinking is with close hangers hanfg the open bag inside a small bucket. then do small drip steady drip, going into the bag. once its full it will come out and spill in the bucket. then get one of those salad bowls with the holes at the bottom, and slowly tilt the bag with the fish until most the water comes out, then slide him off the bag, and from the bowl into the DT and observe him for a couple of minutes. in an hour offer some seaweed. im sure his addition will calm my clownfish since they are always fighting, and the big clown wont be the dominant anymore :)

sucka'

If you put the tang in the DT and later find out that he has ich, yes, you will have to remove and treat all fish, because they will all have been exposed to ich. You display tank will need to run fishless for at least 6 weeks so that the ich will die off in that tank because it does not have a host. Mindytoy, you have been reading, or at least posting, in this forum for quite awhile, I have a feeling that you have read all this ich advice before. If you don't QT fish, you take a risk. If it works out for you, great! If the tang turns out to have ich (and I have heard tangs referred to as "ich magnets") then you will have a lot of work ahead of you getting a bigger hospital tank and treating all the fish.

[ToxicTort]

To be honest with you, the personality of keeping a tang should be a Wing it kind of personality. For example, ME !!! lol ( i know its sel"fish" of ME) but i went and got me a Saifin Tang, totally want to buy it. Bought it at Petco, brought it home, acclimate them ... 5 hours later, i threw him in there, and BAM my lights turn on, and no one picks on him/her. ( i run reverse lighting Schedule)
He/she gets scared at first but, she/he will get use to it. I mean you are too scared of the Ich ...
I know you have a royal gramma in there and NOW Yellow Tangs are now freaking expensive if i might add, and its a lot of money but if the back of your mind is scare of the "ich magnet" then get a shark or a stingray, they are immune to the disease. Im not saying you should but just an example. So, if you want this tang, then you have to suck up ma'am and build you a QT. and there aint nothing wrong with QT. Just someone's opinion, i can Respect that.

Hopes that help

[billsreef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13522021#post13522021 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tmz
QT is not really a debatable issue as far as I'm concerned so I won't engage in argument about it. Advice not to qt is simply wrong in my opinion.

:thumbsup:

Not QT'ing is akin to playing Russian Roulette with your fish, with at least 3 out of the 6 chambers loaded.

[mindytoy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13524137#post13524137 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ToxicTort

I know you have a royal gramma in there and NOW Yellow Tangs are now freaking expensive if i might add, and its a lot of money but if the back of your mind is scare of the "ich magnet" then get a shark or a stingray, they are immune to the disease. Im not saying you should but just an example. So, if you want this tang, then you have to suck up ma'am and build you a QT. and there aint nothing wrong with QT. Just someone's opinion, i can Respect that.

Hopes that help

i dont have a royal gramma....

ill take my chances this time, if i do get ick then so be it, ill just buy a 20 gallon set it up, and treat the fish there. if not i won the russian rullette, for sure on my hippo tang he will be Qte'd not the mandarin and maybe the flame angel will too

[mindytoy]

i have bitten the bullet. i paid for a red flame angel too. so saturday i will be picking both up they are both feeding and the healthiest looking ones there. he has had both for 5 weeks already. i also paid for a green bubble tip anemone for my clowns :)

i wont QT them, even though the little flame angel is small and i think would be good in the 10 gallon QT. never really heard of rflame angels getting ich...

anyways wish me luck guys

[billsreef]

I'll wish you and fish luck, however, I've both seen and treated numerous flame angels for ich ;)

[tmz]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13546626#post13546626 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by billsreef
I'll wish you and fish luck, however, I've both seen and treated numerous flame angels for ich ;) :) True

[r0bin]

Buying 2 fish and not QT'ing is really pushing it.

[mike tv]

I'd say two at once is pushing it.


period.

[mindytoy]

so should i qt the angel then???????

[r0bin]

yea, I would. Again not QT'ing is not a good idea. Some of us were agreeing not to QT the Tang b/c your QT tank is so small. Thats not a license to just start not Qt'ing everything. (no offense)Anyway you need to invest in a larger QT tank or rubbermaid container. If you are going to do this hobby might as well do it right.

[Amoore311]

Yes definitely QT the Angel. The only reason I said not to QT the tang is because you don't have a tank big enough. That is the ONLY reason not to QT this time. I would get a larger QT in the future so then you will have no reason not to QT.

I've seen more problems with Angels than with Tangs honestly.

[mindytoy]

really? more problems with angels? wow never heard that one before.... i guess i can add the tang to the DT and the angel to the QT...im gonna check my water on the QT make sure it matches.... and i will look for a 20+ tank so i can QT also, i have 2 10 gallon tanks so that isnt enough...

[Amoore311]

30 gallon breeders make good QT Tanks. New from my pet store was about $70. You can probably get a used one for really cheap though, they are popular as sumps.



And yes lots of problems with Centropyge (sp?) angels. Not necessarily Ich, but problems that were resolved through the process of QT. (Ich, Fungus, Infections, Parisites external and internal))

[mindytoy]

sp? this ones a flame dwarf angel..?

[fatdaddy]

If you don't QT, just know your risk and have a back up plan:

1) remove all the fish from your DT. DT will need to be free of fish for 4+ weeks so the Ich dies out.

2) treat all fish for Ich. There are a bunch of strategies for this including copper, hypo, and swapping aquariums every few weeks.

3) Return fish to aquarium.

The above turns into a real PITA. You'll start QT'ing after you've done it a few times. :)

Ich can be really bad on some fish. Tang's will rub themselves raw, so they will literally itch themselves to death. So, you may deal with fatalities. It's never a pleasant experience.

Also, know your source. My local Petland will readily admit to having Ich and will even brag that they use a certain brand of Ich medication. (Note to self: don't shop local Petland.)

[fatdaddy]

Plastic storage containers work for QT'ing fish. I've used a cement mixing container that ran me $11 at Lowe's.

[mindytoy]

well if i had something like petland or petco i def. would not buy from them period...

my lfs is a good guy, he has even told me i cant sell you this because its not eating well, and he will take care of my stuff like i got some corals from a local for free and my lights werent here yet so he held them for 2 weeks, and the fish im talking about hes been holding them for me for about 5 weeks, so thats the reason i was going to skip QT.

i think though, i will buy a 25 gallon tank, or 20 gallon. do a water change on the DT, add that water to the QT and add the hang on back filter thats on the 10. and the pvc pipes, then when i get the fish add them there? is 20 a good size for a tang? the biggest i could go is 30 space is very limited in my room...

or i can add the tang to the DT. watch him for a while. put the angel in the 10 gallon watch him as well....

then after a month if the tang shows no signs of ich, and neither does the angel, then add the angel to the display....

if the tang breaks out then take a long time catching it and the clown fish, and somehow catch the yellow watchman goby and buy the 30 gallon, do my water change and add them there and treat them there....

ive never heard of a watchman goby getting ick though?

[Amoore311]

That's a good point fatdaddy. If money is a real constraint to setting up a bigger QT, use a rubbermaid bin. The glass tank helps in being easier to view the fish, but if you have to then go with the rubbermaid.

And (sp?) was b/c I wasn't sure if I spelled Centropyge correct lol. Centropyge encompasses all dwarf angels (Flames, Coral Beauties, LemonPeels, etc.)

[mindytoy]

since money is tight right now im thinking of doing plan B from above.....

and if the tang gets ich then ill have to eat raw trash to buy the 20-30 gallon. haha well not that drastic.

if the flame does get ich, what is a good treatment? i hear copper is the best hands down, more than hypo..?

also if the tang gets ich and the flame angel doesnt i should leave him in the 10 right?

and lastly if the tang gets ich can i take the clowns and the tang and leave the inverts and goby there?

and when if it does before adding to QT should i dip them in fresh ROdi water for 5 seconds before adding to qt?

[Amoore311]

30 gallon long would be fine for the duration of QT for a yellow tang.

Standard 20 gallon would be 2 short for a long term QT though unless it was really small. The fish would just pace the glass all day and not eat anything.

[Amoore311]

Use Hypo to treat Ich. Copper can destroy aquatic Herbivores digestive bacteria.

[mindytoy]

so its either 30 long or nothing? i have maybe at most 38"s to fit a tank.

[Amoore311]

for the tang yes.

The angel would do fine in a 10 gallon for QT as long as it isn't full grown.

[nikon187]

If your tank get ick i would QT everything( the goby included)

[tmz]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13551080#post13551080 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Amoore311
Use Hypo to treat Ich. Copper can destroy aquatic Herbivores digestive bacteria. :) I think that's a myth based on a false comparison of marine fish and coes. The fish don't chew their cud. Tangs tolerate copper treatment quite well, in my experience. If you have a cite on that I'd like to see it.