Best Alk test kit?

[bromion]

What does everyone recommend these days for an Alk test kit? There are some new ones I've seen on the market. Are any more accurate than the Salifert? Thanks for suggestions!

[HighlandReefer]

I like & use the Salifert. I personally have not had good results with the API as far as the alk. test goes. :)

[Ed Reef]

I used Salifert (old/ new version), API and Elos and overall I find API and Elos to be consistent in my weekly testing.

[tonyf]

I use Salifert and La Motte ... prefer the La Motte for ease of use.

[Todd March]

I use API, Salifert and Elos... Other reefers I trust tell me Elos is the most accurate. Typical readings for me are:

API: 8 dKH
Salifert (old): 8.3 dKH
Elos: 7 dKH

Knowing my tank's needs and what I add, I do tend to think that 7 dKH (Elos) is about right...

[palawan]

Elos,Lamotte are what I use. I dumped Salifert after that episode in the past with the bad batch of alk tests. Poor customer service at that time.

[Todd March]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13518677#post13518677 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by palawan
Elos,Lamotte are what I use. I dumped Salifert after that episode in the past with the bad batch of alk tests. Poor customer service at that time.

Yeah, this is the last of my Salifert and then it's over with them...

What was a big turn off this last time was the syringes--the markings wore off before the kits were even half used! I had to go to my vet and buy a 1 ml syringe to continue using the kits...!

I have used Salifert for years, but between the inaccurate readings, the poor customer service, and sub-par cheap kit componenents, adios Salifert...!

[palawan]

I guess they went the cheap route. They are still in the price range of Elos and Lamotte. Too bad, cause they were #1 for us reefers back then.

[Billybeau1]

Alkalinity kits are pretty straight forward. I have found most alk manufacturers reliable. It is one of the easiest tests to manufacture.

We occasionally get bad results because of shelf life, user error or contamination issues.

That's why you see disgruntled users from time to time.

Salifert, Elos, Sera, API, Instant Ocean, all good choices IMO. :)

[palawan]

That's why you see disgruntled users from time to time.

Nope, not disgurntled, just disappointed. I do not stay with a vendor if they do not make a wrong(that they admit was their fault) right. That is poor customer service IMO. If the another test kit maker does the same, then I will not use them either. I am pretty sure if you got burned you would feel the same.

[Billybeau1]

Everybody gets burned in this hobby from time to time. Manufacturers produce defective products now and then.

Does not mean they are not good manufacturers. It happens.

Not to mention that a lot of the supposed error in products is actually user related which tends to cloud the issue many times. :)

[Todd March]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13531850#post13531850 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Billybeau1
Everybody gets burned in this hobby from time to time. Manufacturers produce defective products now and then.

Does not mean they are not good manufacturers. It happens.

Not to mention that a lot of the supposed error in products is actually user related which tends to cloud the issue many times. :)

While your are absolutely right, Billybeau1, I think that the problems with Salifert (and Habib's illness or whatever...?) have been going on for a while now. Well over a year...
Unless they increase customer contact alone (NO way to currently contact them), they have lost my testing dollar...

[Billybeau1]

Well, its your loss as Salifert still makes some of the best hobby grade test kits in the business from my testing.

The Habib bashing is getting pretty old to me.. :(

If he had not been so active in RC in the first place, we would not even be talking about this. Do you know the names of the API CEO, the Red Sea CEO, the Seachem CEO, The IO CEO ? I doubt it.

Truth of the matter is, IMO, Habib should have never participated in this forum to begin with. He basically spoiled us with his participation in the beginning and now, because he is gone, everyone wants to say his product is no good.

FWIW, I still use his products and will continue to until something better comes along. I haven't seen it yet.

I say, leave Habib be and if you choose to use the products, fine. If not, there are many other companies to choose from.

My 2cents.

[Todd March]

You're right, we were spoiled by Habib's participation here on RC, and for a while I think many were forgiving of Salifert issues due to this...

But as for "Habib bashing", Mmmmm, maybe you are reading posts too fast...

Again: I can contact and have interaction with API, Red Sea and Seachem (or ATB, RE or KZ, in Europe, for that matter) via the worldwide internet, but I literally have way to inexpensively contact Sailfert (other than a European postal address and international phone number from the box). Salifert includes NO email contact on their website.

And my complaints with Salifert have to do with with concrete problems such as readings that are higher than any other test kit on the market (including on Salifert's own test reference solutions!), and kit componenets (syringes) that do last for even half the tests stated on the outside of the box. I have used Salifert test kits for 7+ years, and the chipping off of markings on the syringes was never an issue until this past summer of '08.

Poo-poo'ing this away as either "Salifert" or "Habib" bashing is too short-hand IMO.

[HighlandReefer]

Not that I want to disrupt this interesting & educational conversation between you two, but I just bought a bunch of Salifert test kits and all of them have a new syringe with ink that holds up much better. I too was frustrated with the cheap ink, but feel much better now. It is frustrating that there is no email or web contact. :)

[palawan]

All in all. Poor customer service=no purchase of product. And just trying to convey opinions on vendors or vendor that fall into the catagory.

[MCsaxmaster]

Ha, sheesh, I'll side-step the discussion above ;)

All of the kits mentioned worked just fine IME. Personally, I am somewhat partial to API alkalinity test kits because I don't see most other kits as signifcantly better, and the API kit is darn cheap. I'm not sure I'd actually be gaining anything by spending 2-3x as much.

[Billybeau1]

Todd, I feel everyones pain in regards to this matter. I just never had the problems myself.

I will agree Saliferts customer service is basically non-existent. Not much any of us can do about that.

The only thing a user can do is not buy from them. As I said there are plenty of options out there.

And yes, sometimes I do read too fast. "bashing" may have been a wrong choice of words. My apologies if you took offense. It is a sensitive subject for me. :)

We're movin on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :D

[bromion]

Well, back on topic : ) I purchased an Elos kit today at Reef-A-Palooza here in lovely SoCal. People have been raving about the Elos kits it seems. Anyway, I am a bit disappointed.

It was cheaper than Salifert, at least ($15 at the show), but it uses the count-the-drops method, not direct titration. Much less accurate, but fine for ballpark estimate I suppose.

Worse, though, is that the directions said 1 drop = 1°dKH. It said that repeatedly and consistently and in every language listed on the instruction sheet. It even has an example "4 drops = 4°dKH." I was shocked to find my Alkalinity was at 13 when Salifert read about 5.5 the previous day! Turns out, if you look at the illustration on the instructions it indicates 1 drop = 0.5° dKH. That's a rather unprofessional mistake if you ask me!

[MCsaxmaster]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13535867#post13535867 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bromion
...but it uses the count-the-drops method, not direct titration. Much less accurate, but fine for ballpark estimate I suppose.


Just as a note, it's a titration either way. The question of accuracy/precision will be how accurately/precisely drops are as compared to a small syringe. A good burette will be more accurate, but the little syringes that typically come with these sort of kits and the volume they dispense for a given movement in the pistion means they aren't necessarily more accurate or precise than counting drops. Neither is incredibly precise, but probably just fine for our purposes.

In work I've done for my MS I've done a lot of alkalinty titrations. For a 30 g sample of normal sea water w/ 0.1 M HCl it takes ~750 mg (~ 0.75 ml) of acid for the titration. For high precision work (typically ~+/- 0.002 meq/kg) the difference of 1 mg of acid makes all the difference in the world. That is a speck of acid that will fit on the end of this period . ;)

Chris

[HighlandReefer]

Chris,
Do you use a buret(s) with one of the test kits when you run tests on you tank?

[bromion]

I was more upset with the blatantly incorrect instructions on the Elos kit than the dropper bottle : )

[Otty]

Elos for me!

[OneReef]

I have tried most of them and the LaMotte has been my favorite.

[Todd March]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13537508#post13537508 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bromion
I was more upset with the blatantly incorrect instructions on the Elos kit than the dropper bottle : )

Yeah, Elos has apologized over and over for this, but it sure sent a lot people into freak-out...!

[JAG107]

Has anyone questioned the accuracy of the salifert syringes? When I suck up 5ml in the salifert syringe and place it into an API or Hagen vial, it goes about 1/4 inch above the line (reading from the bottom of the water level to account for surface friction). Are API and Hagen's vials inaccurately labeled or are saliferts syringes off?

[MCsaxmaster]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13536021#post13536021 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by HighlandReefer
Chris,
Do you use a buret(s) with one of the test kits when you run tests on you tank?

Nope. For my tank, or if a I want a quick and dirty estimate of alkalinity, I just use the test kit more-or-less according to the directions. Right now I'm using an API kit. I dropped and broke the little vial they provide so now I measure out ~5 ml of sea water with a little cheap syringe and perform the titration in a little, clean glass vial of ~15 ml volume.

For good precision and accuracy I've used a colorimetric method developed by Yao and Byrne. I weigh out ~30 g of sea water in a ~40 ml vial (weighed accurately to +/- 1 mg) and then pipette in the acid: ~750 mg of 0.1 N HCl for normal sea water, weighed accurately to +/- 1 mg. That will drop the pH (total scale, not NIST) to about 4.0. Aerate strongly with N2 or Ar (g) for 5 min to drive off excess CO2, blank the sample on a spectrophotometer, pippette in ~50 ul of bromocresol green (a pH indicating dye) of known concentration, and read the absorbance with the spec. at a few wavelenths. Also, salinity is measured beforehand and temperature in cell is taken before reading the absorbance. With all of that info one can calculate the total alkalinity. Precision using this method is ~+/- 0.001-0.003 meq/kg for me. I ensured accuracy by running a certified seawater alkalinity standard often (at a cost of $60 per liter!).

If I'm not quite sure of what the alkalinity in the sample is, it's also possible to add the dye first and slowly perform the titration ensuring that one doesn't overshoot the endpoint (i.e., stop adding acid when the dye goes from blue to green). If you go too far past the endpoint, the sample is shot.

This method is labor intensive as compared to the alkalinity test kits we use. Once everthing is set up and running I could run a sample every 6-7 minutes, but with at least 10-20 min of setup and clean up associated with that. Hence, running a single sample would take a solid 30 min. I can use a test kit to get a reading in less than 30 sec.

When I've tested API test kits against sea water with known alkalinity (determined via method above) they came to within +/- 1 dKH of the expected value. I don't expect higher accuracy than that, hence they are good enough IMHO. Some manufacturers claim higher accuracy/precision, but I'm not sure their claims hold water, pun intended ;) For significantly better accuracy and precision as compared to what most kits can provide, people would need to be able to measure volume (or ideally mass) much more accurately, and they'd either run potentiometric titrations, or they'd use a spec. to determine the speciation of the dyes. Eye-balling the color of a dye is only ever going to get you so close.