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View Full Version : Help with 440 gallon reef display


Condiman
10/17/2008, 08:13 PM
This is one of my clients aquariums and I thought i would post on here to see if I can get any ideas on a few things. Info about the aquarium.

9 years old
many people tried to take care of it before me
440 Custom Glass (unknown MFG)
2 - Korilla 4
4 - korilla 3
Ozotech Ozonizer
30 gallon sump ( I know its undersized for a tank but no room under the stand for larger)
2 - Prizm Pro Skimmers (Not my first choice but its what would fit under stand)
2 - 400 watt icecap hqi 20k bulbs
1/2 hsp chiller (unknown MFG)


1 The only problem I am havin now is a small cyno outbreak. Any reasons y that could be? I am thinking from not enough circulation.

2 The top of the tank is made really stupid. The only way I can discribe it is on most acrylic tanks that I have seen have just two opening on the top and that is the way this tank is made. If it were made properly I would have been able to put another light up above the tank. The center part of the tank is a peice of glass that I can not remove. Currently the lighting goes like this. Left light on at 8am to 3pm and the Right light goes on at 12pm and off at 6pm. The client wanted the lights on for the entire time the office is open and that was the only way I could think of setting the timer. What I want to do is find a way to put PC or T5 actincs to come on in the morning and afternoon so the MH aint on for the entire day. What would you recamend? I will try to find a photo of the top of the aquarium to show you what I am talking about.


Water Speks are

PH 8.4
Alk 9.5 dkH
Calcium 440
Nitrate 0
Nitrite 0
Phosphate .01

All test kits are Seafert except the phosphat which is D-D ROWA Merck Phosphate Test Kit


Any help would be greatly apreciated.

Condiman
10/17/2008, 08:21 PM
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk81/bbsaquaticservice/440reef007.jpg

IMG]http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk81/bbsaquaticservice/440reef010.jpg[/IMG]

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk81/bbsaquaticservice/440reef006.jpg

Condiman
10/17/2008, 08:23 PM
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk81/bbsaquaticservice/440reef003.jpg

This here is a before photo before I changed the lights. The origional lights were two 150 hqi

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk81/bbsaquaticservice/440%20reef/100_1557.jpg

Condiman
10/17/2008, 09:19 PM
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk81/bbsaquaticservice/440%20reef/100_1555.jpg

Untamed12
10/17/2008, 11:58 PM
There doesn't seem to be that many fish in there, so you aren't pushing that system too hard.

However, it wouldn't take many fish to overwhelm a couple of prism pro skimmers. Even two of those is inadequate to skim a tank of that size (I ran one on my 30 gallon and found it inadequate for that!)

So my immediate advice is to upgrade the skimmer.

You can't measure the nitrate and phosphate because they are getting used up by algae and cyano...You might also start running phosphate remover.

Condiman
10/18/2008, 12:05 AM
Ohh I forgot to add that I have two Persision Marine Phosphate reactors on there and they are running with Rowa Phos media. Like I said the skimmers were not my choice the client is one of those persons who like to have a backup for everything. If one thing dies the other can limp along till it gets fixed. I wanted to run origionally an Aqua C EV1000 or a Persision marine Bullet XL Series Protein Skimmer. But I can recamend till Im blue in the face and he has the final say in the matter.

Condiman
10/18/2008, 12:08 AM
Just to clearify this is the skimmer Red Sea Prizm Pro Deluxe Protein Skimmer.

Condiman
10/18/2008, 12:12 AM
Another thing is to when I started maintaining this aquarium. These were the current readings. I keep everything on file.

PH 8.4
Alk 6.1
Calcium 650
Nitrate 100+
Nitrite 50
Phosphate 20+
SG 1.050

am3gross
10/18/2008, 06:39 AM
lots of water changes..... more flow...... better skimmer...... if he does not want to come off the money to fix what he has you are wasting your time even going over there to try and help. maybe you could suggest a smaller tank for him?

Condiman
10/18/2008, 06:56 AM
I do 40 gallons every two weeks.

Condiman
10/18/2008, 07:01 AM
Now what would you suggest for flow. I was thinking of using the new Korllas that come out. But I really havnt heard much feedback on them. As for the skimmer what would you recamend

mm949
10/18/2008, 07:52 AM
what do u have for a return pump....filter is only as good as the amount of water passed thru it....NEEDS a real skimmer...PMI XL's are probably NOT going to fit under stand would look at bullet line...i would also add more mechanical filter like a bag since they probably overfeed...what are the dimensions of tank cuz it looks barely 300gl..??

Condiman
10/18/2008, 09:52 AM
I have filter sox that I change out weekly and an auto feeder that feeds once a day. Return pump is a Mag 12 I was lookn at the tubelle streams for flow but not sure on which ones to get

mike660r
10/18/2008, 11:00 AM
If you are in the aquarium maintenance business and you don't already know the answer to these questions. It would seem you need to do some more home work or you will be out of business.

Just my opinion

Condiman
10/18/2008, 10:33 PM
YOU KNOW WHAT I WILL BE HONEST I DONT KNOW EVERYTHING AND NOONE DOSE. I HAVE MAINLY DELT WITH AQUARIUM AROUND 220 SIZE BUT WHEN YOU GET A CHANCE TO DEAL WITH AN AQUARIUM OF THAT SIZE IT CHANGES THINGS A BIT. I THOUGHT IF A PERSON HAD A QUESTION NO MATTER WHAT THERE EXPERIENCE LEVEL THAT I SHOULDNT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT GETTING SLAMED. BUT I GUESS I WAS WRONG.

I will never consider myself an expert and what is wrong with what I asked. I have never used those types of pumps and I was asking what peoples thoughts were. So tell me what is wrong with what I have asked I would like to know.

mike660r
10/18/2008, 11:17 PM
I apologize if my comment gave you the impression I was slamming you. These questions are asked constantly across the boards. If the majority of people would take some time and do some searching on their own. We wouldn't have to repeat the same stuff over and over and over again. I can think of several successful 400 gallon tanks in this forum. I'm just trying to inspire you to look around at all the information that is already available too you here.

Condiman
10/18/2008, 11:21 PM
The problem I have is that I have to convince this person to purchase these pumps and if they dont work how do I explain that to him. I know I should have a larger skimmer. If it were up to me I would have it in the basement of the facility and be using a volcano style skimmer. But its not my money.

Condiman
10/18/2008, 11:22 PM
The dimentions of the aquarium are 72 x 30 x 46

Crazy One
10/19/2008, 12:00 AM
I would recommed in a nice way that there is certain equiptment that they need in order to obtain good water quality.
If they don't want to spend the money there is nothing you can do to help. Give them the benefit of the doubt that you do know what your talking about.
If they don't believe you just bring up some topics on here under large tanks and let them see for themselves what it takes to do it the right way.

Condiman
10/19/2008, 12:12 AM
One thing I know if I would have setup this tank was to use a closed loop.

I noticed that seems to be the big key in larger tanks. I havnt found any 400 gallon tanks that use powerheads yet and I have been surching. I am thinking of trying the Korilla 8 series and see how they work out.

Mr. Brooks
10/19/2008, 12:46 AM
Dang that's a tall tank. You don't need a closed loop. Just get stronger powerheads.

Condiman
10/19/2008, 10:19 PM
Thats what I was thinking but the placement of the powerheads is quite difficult.

marinelife
10/20/2008, 07:32 AM
You best bet would have been to look over the tank, say I would remove all these small pumps and skimmers. Add a few waveboxes or streams, get a large return pump, big skimmer and whatever else you felt needed changed. If he said no I would have told him you can not help and to call someone else. Trust me if no equipment is changed then the tank will never look good. There is just not enough flow in that tank.

What I would do from here is make a price list for him with:
1. Equipment and price
2. labor to change equipment
3. weekly water change price for at least 2 months
4. Discount for selling off used equipment
5. Huge bold note saying something about what you are going to do may not 100% fix the tank and more equipment/maintenance could me needed.(cover your butt for all the money he is spending)
I sure there are more but I am just getting moving this morning. I will post more if I think about something else.

Lastly if he aggress to your list/invoice then have him sign it and get to work changing out things.
If he says no then say bye and never look back.
If he wants you to spend hours explaining way all this is needed DON'T just spend 5-10 minutes saying you hired me to fix your tank and to make it look good and have healthy animals you need the right equipment. Do not spend to much of your time on it if he is not going to work with you to fix the problem, you just need to move on, this will save you time now and in the future.

Condiman
10/20/2008, 07:49 AM
As you can see by the last photos that when I took the tank over earlier this year it only have a Korilla 2 and a mag 12 for the return from the sump. In the few months that I have been doing his tank it has improved greatly and I have learned alot.

marinelife
10/20/2008, 08:20 AM
Right but not enough for this tank.

Condiman
10/20/2008, 08:34 AM
I know I was hopin to get better flow with the 4s it did help but not enough

marinelife
10/20/2008, 08:53 AM
You need some large streams in there!!!

Condiman
10/20/2008, 08:56 AM
Ya but the cost of them is a killer thats why I was thinkin of using the korilla 8s

marinelife
10/20/2008, 09:03 AM
On a tank that large it is going to cost some cash.

Condiman
10/20/2008, 09:10 AM
I know what you mean

Mr. Brooks
10/20/2008, 10:25 AM
I think the K8's would be a great improvement. That tank is awefully big. He should really start thinking about upgrading his equipment. Try searching through some of our builds. Find some pics that show that some of us have 3 and 4 times the equipment he has on tanks smaller than his. If he sees how well we're doing and how good our tanks look with better equipment, he might just get motivated to spend some $$$.