Some great mostly undescribed Lios caught off Curacao

[myerst2]

Hello. On my ever search to find whats new. I found these pictures of some fish caught of the island of Curacao. The first fish looks very similar to a royal Grama but fetched 10,000$. Fish were found in very deep water and were very slowly brought up to the surface over a period of 3 days.

Lipogramma klayi
http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg22/myerst22/dsc_0045_006.jpg
- Serranus lucipercanus
http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg22/myerst22/dsc_0058_010.jpg
Halichoeres bathyphilus
http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg22/myerst22/dsc_0175.jpg
Bullisicthys carribeaus
http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg22/myerst22/dsc_0196.jpg
Lipogramma trilineatum
http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg22/myerst22/dsc_0212.jpg


I say all the time that a person's definition of 'rare' is quite relative. These fish are rare by any definition. We're are not talking about a Conspic or a Clarion. Tim

Ref. Site. http://74.125.91.104/translate_c?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://homepage2.nifty.com/tatsuro33/curacao.htm&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dblueharbor.co%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dsafari%26rls%3Den&usg=ALkJrhhtWOibQ58Np7NUbwfzuGY465AbHw

[HomeSlizzice]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13593068#post13593068 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by myerst2

Lipogramma trilineatum
http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg22/myerst22/dsc_0212.jpg

I like the colors on that one.

[Zoos]

Lipogramma klayi, what an amazing fish, looks tiny too.

[myerst2]

Yes it is amazing if you really love the rare fish. The divers choose to forego the normal "needling" to ease decompression issues and rather raise the fish slowly over the corse of three days!!!! Now that my friends is awesome fish collecting technique. Cyanide seems to be out of these divers vocabulary, "THANKFULLY">!

[glassbox-design]

Tim,

Although I believe collected by the same group (Dynasty Marine) I believe the fish you are thinking of with the $10,000 price tag and 3 day acclimation is Lipogramma flavescens. This fish only lived one night. The other pricey Lipogramma is L. evides. They retail for ~$3k and was collected with the same 3 day acclimation period.

From a recent article of mine, more here (http://glassbox-design.com/2008/rare-fish-the-lipogramma-basslets/) :
The Banded Basslet (Lipogramma evides) is a deep water species that is unlikely to make it’s way to the US market. This is a sought after fish by the top collectors in Asia and with a price tag of $3,000USD the few that are collected will likely continue going there. Lipogramma evides is found between 40 and +350m deep making it a difficult fish to collect. Most often this fish inhabits waters deeper than 100m.

L. klayi is found in shallower waters, is available now and then, and commands a much more wallet friendly price! Also worth noting this genus is Lipogramma, although a basslet it is not in the same genus (Liopropoma) as the infamous Candy Basslet, Liopropoma carambi.

Thanks for sharing these great photos by Tatsuro :thumbsup:

[myerst2]

No worries Eric. Realize the importance of giving these guys their proper credit! Any idea where to get some of these great Lio's? PM with any info thanks.

[philter4]

I've collected L. trillineatum, and I've dove the area where there were supposed to be L. klayi, but we didn't find any. I find it hard to believe they got that much money, the fish is usually less then an inch and isn't uncommon in the right areas, just very cryptic and do not leave the safety of the holes they live in. The people I know who collected them and told me the site to find them used quinaldine to collect and saw lots of them in the area. For those of you who don't know it, quinaldine is a legal collecting drug both in Florida and the Caribbean, there are far more collectors who use it then who don't.

As far as clarions, I've also dove and collected there in the late 80's when no one cared if you brought fish back, we collected 75 clarions on one dive (there were 3 of us) and we sold the catch to All Seas in LA for $75 each and thought we were kings of the fish world. They are one of the most common and visible fish in the offshore islands and the only reason they are rare in the hobby is restrictions in both their collection and export.

Rare is a perception, just because a fish isn't in the hobby by no means makes it rare in the ocean.

[myerst2]

Yes I am fully aware of the misuse of the word "rare" is the hobby as I am sure Eric is. I've been around around the block a few times. By the way. Great catches in HI. How did they acclimate? Are the tiny potters still around in HI? T

[philter4]

Tim,
I didn't mean to sound uppity, just point out some info on the lios you posted, then I saw the part about the clarions and sort of went off.

There were few small potters, the one in the photo isn't as tiny as the blow up makes it look, but thanks for the compliments, it was a great trip. All the fish I kept are doing great, but I only took 5 fish back, a male flame to match to my female, another pr of potters fully expecting to leave one with my folks in CA (it was such a nice pr I didn't leave it) the fishers angel in the photo and a tiny leaf fish.

Sorry, I didn't mean to hijack your thred so if any more comments I'll leave them on the HI thred

[zemuron114]

neat little basses. Its amazing how much Asia will pay... lol

tim - potters are growing up. tiny ones aren't as common.

[philter4]

Eric,
last year I planned a trip to collect L evides, but health trouble stopped me from taking it. Hopefully I'll be in better shape next year, it is one of the species that I would love to collect and keep. My biggest concern is decompression, I don't needle any of the fish I collect unless I think not doing it will cause the fish harm (usually less then 10% of the fish we collect), and I have brought fish up from a little more then 200 ft safely, deeper then that I have poor results. I'm not sure how I would be able to leave the fish for multiple days as I was going to charter the boats from local dive masters, and I don't know if they would let me stay out for the duration of the needed deco time. Just still wanting to make the trip so I'm sort of thinking out loud.

[chrisstie]

From a Florida native who doesn't have her diving liscense and has only been snorkeling... what you guys are talking about is just amazing. I wouldn't even begin to know how to do half of what you talk about but it sounds like you've seen and done some amazing things.

These are beautiful species I"ve never even seen pictures before and am very happy you posted them! I think too often rarity is associated with a pricetag and vice versa- if someone sells a fish for $$$ then it must be rare right?! I don't like that kind of thinking but at the same time personally would feel too chicken to take the chance on a rare fish I don't know much about. I hope the ones being sold in the asian markets are living long lives and aren't expiring at a businessman's whim!

[copps]

Too cool... that Serranus lucipercanus remnds me of Belonoperca!

The amazing thing is that the percentage of reefs of the world that have had their "twilight zones" studied is well less than 1%... so many new fish are out there less than 500 feet down and humans have been passing over them for eons not knowing what they are... it's exciting to be able to witness these... :)

[glassbox-design]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13611339#post13611339 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by philter4
Eric,
last year I planned a trip to collect L evides, but health trouble stopped me from taking it. Hopefully I'll be in better shape next year, it is one of the species that I would love to collect and keep. My biggest concern is decompression, I don't needle any of the fish I collect unless I think not doing it will cause the fish harm (usually less then 10% of the fish we collect), and I have brought fish up from a little more then 200 ft safely, deeper then that I have poor results. I'm not sure how I would be able to leave the fish for multiple days as I was going to charter the boats from local dive masters, and I don't know if they would let me stay out for the duration of the needed deco time. Just still wanting to make the trip so I'm sort of thinking out loud.

Very cool to hear you plan on collecting this fish. I have no experience with L. evides or deepwater collecting, so I cannot help there. I'd suggest speaking with Dynasty Marine and see what information you can get from them. I am not sure how open they will be, but it's worth a shot.

I do know the Lipogramma flavescens did not acclimate well even after the 3 day acclimation period. Perhaps L. evides is hardier in that regard. Please keep me updated :thumbsup:

[philter4]

I've seen aquarium photos of L. evides, in fact the first photo I thought it was a different damsel, so I know they can at least be brought to the surface safely. I have known/delt with dynasty several years ago when I was in the trade commercially. I have my sources and know at least where they have been collected in the past so I'm ok, just have to work on a deco plan. I have experience with deepwater only because they are the fish I like and if I'm going to spend that kind of money on a fish I want a vacation out of the deal as well. That is actually how I got into deep diving/collecting, I didn't want to spend the money on some deep water butterflies, but in hind site it would have been a lot cheaper to just buy the fish, but not nearly as fun.