setting up a 40 breeder (old 26 bow)

[Linina]

I currently have a 90 gallon setup, a 26 bow, and a 10 gal QT now semi-permanently housing a castoff clownfish. My husband is not very happy with the smaller setups (he thinks they are "ghetto" and admittedly the HOT skimmer sucks) so here's my plan: (he really wants to cut to 2 tanks but I think 3 is a good number!)

90 remains as is.
I'm slowly acquiring a 40 breeder to replace the 26, move corals and clown from 26 into here.

Sell/give away/whatever one of the clowns, and tear down the 10 gallon - back to QT status.

Move the 26 into another area of the house and maybe make it into a seahorse or pipefish tank (pending size of fish - won't jam a too large fish into it).

I am picking up an 18x36 stand tomorow used from a local reefer.

I am working on a used 40 breeder and trying to figure out whether we can feasibly drill it ourselves. I'm eyeing the glass-holes.com overflow/return but - drilling glass? seriously? I don't know if we can pull this off.

I'm having some trouble deciding which size overflow and return for this size tank. Any opinions? I need to pick so I can order the kit. I am thinking of the 700 gph kit (1.5" bulkhead) but I don't know. What kind of return pump would I want for that? Anyone with experience on these kits care to chime in for a newb?


Here is my current 26:
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj17/betsydampier/26.jpg


and here is my 10....Yes I guess it IS pretty ghetto, especially in pictures:

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj17/betsydampier/10.jpg

[Linina]

One mission accomplished, traded one of the clownfish in today.

Also I think I settled on the 700 gph kit from glass-holes and I'm just trying to choose between the 1/2 and 3/4 inch return kit.

[cowdawg]

I have a home-made overflow on my 40 BR, with a 1 inch bulkhead. My returns (2) are 3/4 inch. My return pump is a mag 3. After head pressure, I figure the mag3 is giving me 250-300 gph. I feel that my flow is sufficient through the return. I use koralia's in the display to get about 50x turnover.


40 BR's are my favorite small sized tank. Let me know if you have any questions for your build:rollface:


P.S.-- If the tank you bought is made by AGA, then you are free to drill it where ever you want. They do not use tempered glass on their 40BR's.

[Linina]

Thanks cowdawg!

I ordered the 700 gph kit and the 3/4" return kit. Working on sump ideas at the moment.

Picked up the stand today. It looks like it'll work great!
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj17/betsydampier/gotstand.jpg

[Linina]

I think for the sump we are going to try to use a 20 gallon glass tank and add acrylic baffles to divide it up. Never done this before (my 90's sump is an ADHI 45 but not looking to spend as much on this little setup) so if anyone has any tips I'm open to them! I hear that you can buy 1/4" acrylic (for the baffles) at home depot so I think we'll check that out.


For a skimmer I'm thinking of the ASM mini G. I run an ASM G3 on my 90 and I'm pretty happy with it, open to other skimmer selections but space is of course going to be tight under this 3 ft stand.

[cowdawg]

Everything sounds great, all I would change is the baffles. I would use glass instead of acrylic. Its much cheaper to get a couple of pieces of glass cut, and glass silicone's together much better.:)

[Linina]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13626349#post13626349 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cowdawg
Everything sounds great, all I would change is the baffles. I would use glass instead of acrylic. Its much cheaper to get a couple of pieces of glass cut, and glass silicone's together much better.:)

So do you just measure what you want and call a glass shop locally? Acrylic seems easier to trim down if the cut was off, but glass probably would be better assuming we can measure correctly! How much leeway do you leave when ordering the baffle glass? I assume you have to trim off an 1/8" or so to ensure it slides in.

[Linina]

Ok a few updates. Got my overflow and return kit from glass-holes:

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj17/betsydampier/gl*******s.jpg

Came with all the necessities, as well as twizzlers (I promptly ate those) and even.....instructions! I thought nothing in this hobby came with instructions but I was proven wrong today.

I am going to get a 20gal High glass tank for the sump and order glass inserts from a glass shop. Hope to do this project shortly. I just settled on the tank for it today and I'll probably pick it up tomorrow and measure for baffles.

[Linina]

Now, equipment. First off, the purpose of this tank is now to be an anemone tank. I'll probably move my B&W ocellaris clowns into this tank as well (Currently they are being semi bullied by the stupid royal gramma in my 90. I'm so NOT a fan of him anymore). My hope is to then take my time and pick up some Perculas for the 90 if I can figure out if they would stand up to the stupid gramma more. Either that or eventually unload the gramma if he continues to think he owns the tank.

Anyhow - anemone tank. I want this to be powerhead-less. I am going to temporarily use the remora skimmer on the new tank until some future upgrade date (for now I will save that money and use it on other items).

So I, I have this huge (way huger than I thought) overflow hole for the sump (the 700 gph hole from glass holes). Sump will be drain/skimmer->fuge-> return (this works just peachy on my 90 so plan to mimic it). Thinking of a maxijet 3000 utility pump for the return. I'll use the 1" return off the pump to go to a 1" SCWD device (are these sucky? They sound cool). Then flex pipe off those to drilled holes (3/4" bulkhead) in the back with loc line going into the tank wherever (low-ish in the tank - see diagram). (my picture is labeled wrong I will use 1" pipe to go from the sump to the SCWD. Also the overflow is 1.5" and the closed loop intake I am thinking 1")

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj17/betsydampier/40BreederLayout.jpg



Then I'm thinking 1.5" bulkhead for the intake to a closed loop type setup. (no idea what pump yet). It would pull in down to the stand and then return over the lip of the tank (or maybe drilled just under the lip) and into a sequence of pvc pipe and elbows pointing down into the tank ala something I've seen in other forums and on wet web media:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/pbh2oret.htm


Any advice or thoughts?

[Linina]

Ok for lights I am thinking about the 36" Outer Orbit MH/T5 - not sure about which version (150W/250w) but I'm leaning toward the 250 so that if we ever get a deeper tank we can still use it.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+8075+15486&pcatid=15486

[Linina]

Ok got the tank (needs some elbow grease for sure!)

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj17/betsydampier/40tank.jpg

[E.intheC]

definitely looks like a promising project. do you have any other ideas for your sump? I am thinking of getting a 20 high for the sump as well.. excellent idea ;-)

[Minibus]

With how low the two return lines are they can become an issue when your power goes out or you turn your pumps. Half your tank could end up draining into your sump. If your going to do a closed loop they would be fine, but a flood risk for return line from your sump unless you move them closer up to the top.

Hope that helps,
--Ian

[E.intheC]

Ian.. are you saying that the return lines could end up switching backward and the water would then flow back into the sump? it looks like the standard overflow box on the top right will be high enough for the flow to the sump, and the others will be return lines..

(and don't mind me if I sound dumb on the plumbing.. I've never setup a sump or closed loop at all.. trying to read and absorb everything I can before I set up some things.)

[Linina]

I haven't ever done this before either so I can use all the advice I can get!

So the returns must be at or above the overflow in order to prevent backflow to the sump?

Like this?
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj17/betsydampier/40BreederLayoutv1.jpg

[Linina]

Ok picked up the sump today. I think I have my plan set, going to try to order glass pieces this week for the baffles.

I figure the 11" of baffles gives me 5" of water (~6.25 gallons) capacity. My 40 will have an overflow box, figuring 2" down max at 2.5 gallons/inch = 5 gallons potential overflow so I think this should be fine.

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj17/betsydampier/20Hsump.jpg

[Minibus]

Hey E.intheC,
If your routing your return lines from the sump through the back of the tank you will probably always get some draining back to the sump when the return pump is off. I was just trying to say to move them up close to the top so that only a little water gets drained when the pump is not running.
If they were about half way up alot more water could drain back out. It really will only matter when your pump is off during a power outage or planned maintence.

Linina,
That should be better with having them farther up. Another common suggestion around here seems to be to drill a couple of syphon holes just under the waterline to reduce the amount of water which will drain back to your sump as well.

[Linina]

Finished elbow-greasing the tank and picked up the 20H for the sump:

edit: I scraped that nasty (IMHO) blue paint off. After drilling we'll repaint it black. The paint was funny because it pretty easily came off 99% of the tank but there was about a 2" by 5" section that was nutty hard to scrape off. Dude must've actually cleaned that little bit of the tank before painting or something.

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj17/betsydampier/cleanedTankAndSump.jpg


Got the glass baffles made. 1/4" thick, 4 pieces, paid 20 bucks. Thought that was pretty reasonable. Found some aquarium acrylic in the glue section at lowe's so I think I'm all set for the sump project. The return pump arrives tomorrow so that'll help me size the sections better.

edit: the tall baffles barely squeeze into place. I wonder if I should go back to the shop and get them to sand a hair off the edge. They are definitely on the generous side of 11 7/8 which is what I ordered.
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj17/betsydampier/baffles.jpg

Lighting I am still wavering on. Thinking about a 6 bulb ATI powermodule. I just don't know though.

Thinking of picking up a reeflo dart for the CL pump.

[E.intheC]

Minibus.. Thanks for the clarification with that. I think if I go the sump route, I'll just use an overflow (built in, drilled, not the hang on back type)
Linina.. The tank looks much better now! Great job on that! The sump looks promising as well..

[Linina]

Ok slowly making progress....

Returned the baffles to the glass shop to shave it down a little, it was just too tight.

Got the return pump so I'm ready to do the sump project when I get the glass back.

Ordered a Reeflo Dart pump last night along with a load of pvc parts to assemble the closed loop/return/overflow setup. This is what I'm thinking :

Since the dart has a 2" intake I figured three 1" intakes from the tank would cover it. I don't want to step them up to a 1.5" because they are just huge.

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj17/betsydampier/40BreederLayoutv2.jpg

Still haven't ordered a light. I really really want the ATI powermodule 6 bulb but I cannot think of a good way to mount it and the SO doesn't really want it to go all the way to the ceiling. So trying to think of a good route to go for that. One thought I had was a stainless steel rod suspended from the ceiling (kind of similar to a track lighting rod but sturdy) to which the ATI could clip on with nice stainless hook/clip of some sort. Then it's not directly in the ceiling but it can still raise up. Not sure I could sell that as any better than being attached directly to the ceiling though it's certainly easier to adjust the fixture location left to right versus direct mount.

[Linina]

Progress is slow....finally got the baffles back from the glass shop today, they fit much better, glad I took them back.

Got many pvc parts, including the HUGEST union valve I have ever seen. I thought we got the wrong one:

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj17/betsydampier/bigUnionValve.jpg


Today the dart pump for the closed loop arrived. It is also extremely large:

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj17/betsydampier/dart.jpg

(it was quite a mail day) The sand also arrived woohoo, courtesy MarineDepot:

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj17/betsydampier/sand.jpg

And lastly we started eyeballing the plumbing, trying to figure out how this is all going to come together back here:

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj17/betsydampier/TankParts.jpg

[Linina]

Got the tank drilled today! We were nervous but it worked out fine:
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj17/betsydampier/drilling.jpg

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj17/betsydampier/holesDone.jpg

And started on the baffle insertion for the sump.
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj17/betsydampier/sumpInWork.jpg

[Slakker]

That is an absolute monster pump! What's the flow rate on that beast?

Looks like it's all coming together nicely. I might have missed it, but what type of anemone do you plan to keep?

[Linina]

The pump is indeed a monster. It's way bigger than I envisioned. It's a 3600 gph max and with my head of 3 or 4 feet it should put me around 3000.

Bubble tips. Might put my crocea clam over there as well but I'm not sure about that yet. It would provide better top down viewing of him but I don't want him to get clobbered by BTAs. We'll see I guess.

[Linina]

More progress. Built the structure for inside the tank that will be the closed loop. The lower pipes will be covered by sand, the outlets will obviously be visible.
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj17/betsydampier/inside40structure.jpg


And the other plumbing is mostly done. We did change - we were going to do three 1" intakes to the closed loop but at the last second decided to do two 1.5". So now just waiting on the 1.5" ball valves to arrive to finish.

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj17/betsydampier/backMostlyDone.jpg


Also finally ordered a light. I was torn between the 4 and 6 bulb ATI powermodule, I finally called and was going to order the 6 bulb, but reefgeek had just sold the last one. SO that made my decision really easy, I just went with the 4 bulb. Hopefully we can figure out a good way to hang it. I got the tracking notification and it's supposed to arrive tuesday the 2nd.

[spleify]

Looks like it's coming together.

Keep up the good work.

[Linina]

Made a revision to the plumbing. As we were fitting those two 1.5" ball valves in I suddenly noticed that they were about 6" above the 2" ball valve, and serving no purpose. Must've had too many beers the night we decided we needed those. Revised plumbing is all glued in now:

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj17/betsydampier/realFinalPlumbing.jpg


We will water test it tomorrow I think.

The Powermodule arrived. Also our scheme for hanging it arrived. It is designed for hanging art and can hold 65 lbs. This 4 bulb fixture is 15 lbs, so we should be set. Here's the hanger. We just cut it to length but we're going to wait to hang it until we get the 26 gal moved out of its position.

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj17/betsydampier/100_4261.jpg

[E.intheC]

...mich ultra...? :confused:

[Linina]

Ultra AMBER. Best...light....beer....ever. Too bad they cut back to only selling it in 6 packs. We used to fill our kegerator with it.

Water test results...not so hot. Bright side? Dart works, SCWD works.

Problems:

1. Return pump (MJ3000) seems insufficient. Causing extremely loud overflow every little while.
2. Baffles in sump too high. Need to cut by about 2"
3. Left side 1.5" CL bulkhead intake was leaking. To fix it we tightened the bulkhead more but, not feeling too good about the leak and the level of tightness now. I think this tank may be a goner. Glad I bought it used!

4. Threads on dart in/out leaky but I think that will be rectified with a re-do on the thread tape.


So, looks like I wont have the tank up this weekend like I was hoping!

[Linina]

In fact here we go:

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj17/betsydampier/epicfail.jpg




But on the bright side again I also got the skimmer today :

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj17/betsydampier/reefoctoskimmer.jpg

[E.intheC]

That skimmer is a BEAST! hmm.. insert my jealous face here..

as for the beer.. mich ultra amber doesn't taste like it's a bottle of 1/2 beer and 1/2 water like regular mich ultra does?

My favorite light beer is Heineken Light.. mmmmm beeeer

[Linina]

Well, we tried tweaking the fit of the bulkheads a bit and they are no longer leaking. So I think we are still set with the tank. It is possible I MAY have overreacted the other night.

Now the baffles in the sump. Two things:
1. getting them out is WAY WAY WAY harder than getting them in.
2. snapping glass is not nearly as easy as it sounds (well it doesnt really sound easy I guess). Suffice it to say that I'll be ordering new baffles in the 9" height range tomorrow.



<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13886589#post13886589 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by E.intheC
That skimmer is a BEAST! hmm.. insert my jealous face here..


as for the beer.. mich ultra amber doesn't taste like it's a bottle of 1/2 beer and 1/2 water like regular mich ultra does?


Thanks about the skimmer, it BARELY fits in the sump. That 11" footprint was a little on the conservative side.
No, it is way better than regular mich ultra. Amazingly better.

Edit: Oh and I forgot, we also tweaked the inside tank CL plumbing to shorten it. And I swapped the slip Tees for threaded tees so I can put loc line in there instead of just the elbows. Loc Line is on order now.

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj17/betsydampier/new40CL.jpg

[Linina]

Well we moved the 26 elsewhere in the house.

Got the light hung :

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj17/betsydampier/lightHung.jpg

We got the tank moved into position:

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj17/betsydampier/TankAlmostUp.jpg


The octopus skimmer is just not going to work. The stand is too small and/or the skimmer is too big. I am going to sell it I think and pick up a small ASM.
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj17/betsydampier/octopusTooBig.jpg

Now we are just waiting to get it full of RO DI water. Kinda slow going on that but we're about halfway there.

[Jadams]

nice set up...I am also starting a 40breeder right now so im tagging along with yours for help/ideas. :D

Good work!

[longboarder324]

Looking good! I'm also thinking of a 40br with glass-holes overflow. Pls let us know how it performs.

[Jester]

How do you like the powermodule..?? I was thinking about one of these for my 30 breeder tank...

[Linina]

Ok update. Here is the new FTS:

So far I love the ATI powermodule. It is dead quiet. Sometimes to make sure the fan is running i have accidentally touched the blades (running). I really wanted the 6 bulb but was too impatient to wait and reefgeek was out, so I have the 4 bulb.


http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj17/betsydampier/FTS40Dec08.jpg

[Linina]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13959772#post13959772 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by longboarder324
Looking good! I'm also thinking of a 40br with glass-holes overflow. Pls let us know how it performs.


Ok. THe glass holes overflow. At first it was extreme noisy. Like seriously I could barely stand to be in the same room. But, then we added salt (it was noisy during freshwater testing). It got better. Over about 2 days it got WAY better. Then I was battling a massive microbubble problem but realized I was pumping way too much flow through the sump. We put a ball valve on the return and cranked that 700ish gph down about halfway and now it is perfect. No microbubbles and not much noise for a reef tank (I clarify because I now have 2 reefs in the room. My dad has 3 freshwaters (55 and two 75s) in a room and when I go to his house I am reminded of how quiet fish tanks really can be)

[longboarder324]

Thanks for the info. I like the aquascape, low and simple. One more question about the glass-holes overflow. Did the kit come with a lid that fits over the overflow box. I saw one with a lid on another thread and just wanted to know if it was standard with the kit? Keep up the good work! Thanks

[Linina]

Sorry so long in replying! You probably already decided on something but just in case - yes there is a lid for the inside of the box to direct water down to the sides. It was included in the kit I bought without special request.

[longboarder324]

Thanks. Keep posting pics.

[E.intheC]

I like the ATI powermodule. Do you think it's enough light?

Do you have updated pics?

[Linina]

So, time has passed, I added more rock. Here is how it looks now:

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj17/betsydampier/001.jpg

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj17/betsydampier/002.jpg


You can see I am battling both the "pink fuzz" and cyano. I added a vortech to try to supplement flow and that has helped it a lot.

I have endless problems with skimmers in this tank. I don't know whats up, I have an ASM G3 (unmodded) on my 90 and the thing works flawlessly, haven't had any issues at all.

On this tank I never hooked up the octopus due to space constraints. Then I got an ASM Mini G. I had trouble with the pump on that thing, it would start backwards and with my tiny stand I couldn't work in there to get it going right. So then I bought an OceanForce OF 100. Worked for a while but now I have this problem where it stops making any bubbles whatsoever. Then you can blow in the venturi and it'll go right for a while, then goes back. Repeat my same issue of not being able to work in this stand.

Also as it turns out I hate the closed loop. It's quiet enough but we poorly placed those intakes and the anemones like to get near them.

So recently we decided to call the closed loop a nice experiment that is now overwith. I picked up a new 40 BR, and hired a local guy to build me a new stand. Hubby just picked it up today. It is 36" tall which hopefully will give me the ability to actually deal with the skimmers. And if one of them STILL won't work I hope to be able to pick up a G1 to squeeze in there.

Edited: I do love the glass holes overflow though, we are definitely going to reuse that although I think I will situate it more off to one side instead of centered.

Here's the stand :
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj17/betsydampier/004.jpg

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj17/betsydampier/005.jpg
(excuse the cat hair in there, the cats just had an epic throwdown and fur was flyin)

[AwkwardParrot]

Looks good, hows the flow?