Life expectancy of yellow pygmy angel?

[DarG]

Does anyone know the in-captivity life expectancy of a yellow pygmy angel? Although I suppose it doesnt matter, its not a lemonpeel, just the solid yellow pygmy.

[JamesJR]

If you have a C. Heraldi I would expect them to have pretty long life expectancy, over a decade plus. My experience with these fish is that they are not very hardy fish and often are difficult to adapt to captivity.

[DarG]

Thanks for the reply.

I just lost Sunny. Yes, I name my fish :-). He was eating, same diet as always but was losing just a little color over the past couple months or so but still looked good health wise. The thing is, I had him for close to 10 years. Him and the Tomatoe clown were my long time fish. The Tomato I have had for about 12 years. If I remember right, Sunny was close to full grown when I got him 10 years ago or so. So, I dont know how old he was just that I had him for near 10 years.

I didnt expect him to make it when I got him because I know they can be tough to get to eat and then they dont do well. But he ate right away and he did great! Even through a period of 2 or 3 years when money was tight and tank maint. wasnt up to par a few years back. He and the Tomatoe clown just chugged right along.

So, Im assuming that he died of old age then? You think thats probably the most likely cause since he definitely didnt have any signs of outward disease?

Its not like losing a cat or a dog but we were still pretty down about losing him. We keep these fish in captivity and if they do well, then we know we are being responsible in our husbandry and it kinda makes it ok to keep them. But when we lose them, then we need to know that we didnt do anything "wrong" that caused them harm. That sounds kinda cheesy maybe, but thats the way I feel about it. If we keep a fish in a small closed system, out of his natural environment, then we have a responsibility to take care of them properly. I guess Im just making sure, or trying to, that it was the course of time that took him and not something I missed. So if 10 years is about it, then I feel like it was probably just time, not anything I missed or didnt do.

Any thoughts?

[John Dawe]

You did a great job in giving your fish a long life. I am sure it was old age. I know clownfish can live at least 18 yrs from fish I have seen at a zoo.
Your fish could have been 1 yrs or 5 yrs or more when you got him.
If you look need the back for "A Guide to Angelfishes and Butterflyfishes" by Gerry Allen, Mark Allen and Roger Steene, there is a chart from the Nice Aquarium showing how long some of there fish have lived in captivity.

[JCJHET]

In a home aquarium angles have a lifespan 3-6 years, in large well maintained public aquariums they live 9-17 years.

Its easy to see that you take great care of your tank and your fish. You did nothing wrong and he outlived the averages. It was just his time to go.

[DarG]

Thanks all, good info and I appreciate it. Makes me feel better to know that it was just time. Thanks!

[Terra Ferma]

That is a fantastic, public aquaria-esque result for a centropyge.

[BangkokMatt]

10 years!! Good work:thumbsup:

[stunreefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13671757#post13671757 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by DarG
If we keep a fish in a small closed system, out of his natural environment, then we have a responsibility to take care of them properly.
I couldn't agree more. :thumbsup:

10 years is a helluva run for both you guys!

...sorry for your loss.

[Big E]

I aslo agree with DarG's comments above & 10 years for 90% of the fish in the hobby should be an easily obtainable goal.

If somone can't keep a fish alive for at least 5 years you have to start looking at your practices & maintenance. Most fish die at the hands of the hobbyist & not because of natural causes.

[BangkokMatt]

Big E - I totally agree with your sentiments. However, you can't really put a 5 year scale on it as some fish, such as gobies and anthias etc, are unlikely to live that long regardless of good practice.

[Big E]

Well I did say 90% of the fish & I would put at least 5-6 years on anthias. That's how long mine lived & I made some mistakes with feeding regimes ect.........I will do things differently next time. I see no reason they can't live longer than 5-6 years.

If certain fish are more sensitive or need special care the hobbyist has to make sure it's done right to ensure a long life.

Again, there is a lot to this.........you have to care to the special needs of each species. Avoid stress, agression, overcrowding, follow QT practices & on & on. If someone neglects some of this the fish don't live as long.

With all the information available for care ect. theres no excuse.

[BangkokMatt]

What about if a life expectancy of a fish is 3 years - as with some anthias and gobies etc?

[DarG]

I appreciate everyones comments. Thanks all.

I think there are some circumstances that are beyond the hobbyists control though. Not all fish are healthy despite outward appearance and even quarantine doesnt always weed out internal health problems that may not show up in the short term. I have been successful keeping fish for a good while, the Yellow Pygmy and the Tomatoe clown just happen to be the two that I had for a very long time in the old system, and then through a tank change. I am pretty sure that these are the two that I have kept the longest in the 30 plus years I have been involved in the hobby. I remember a yellow tang and a Kole tang in previous systems, years ago, that I also had for a very long time, but not a decade plus.

But I have had fish in the past that never showed outward signs of any problems but that I still lost in a relatively short time. And then the same exact type of fish that I have kept for years. Same foods, same tank, same everything. Most of the fish I have kept in the past 20 years or so have done very well overall. But there are some that just didnt fare well, and Im not sure that I can condemn myself for ALL of the fish that didnt fare well.

We have to start with a fish in overall good health and just like every other animal, there can be hidden health issues that are beyond the hobbyists control. Im not saying that I have not lost a fish due to something I didnt do right. What I am saying is that I dont think that every premature loss is necessarily the hobbyists fault. Aside from the overall internal health of the fish there are alot of stops along the way between the ocean and our tanks. Sometimes there is nothing we can do as hobbysits to avoid a premature loss.

Beyond being responsible and taking proper care of our systems and fish, the important thing, I believe, is how one feels about losing a fish. Every single one that I have lost bothers me and makes me wonder if I did something wrong or could have done something better. If as a hobbyist you just flush away a loss with no second thought ... if you dont atleast go through your own mind about it ... if you dont think of the loss as signifigant beyond your wallet. Then, in my view, you dont have any business in the hobby. It is an important life after all. Thats how I think about it anyway. And I know that many, many in this hobby dont sweat losing a fish (or coral etc) beyond their wallet.

Thanks again to everyone for the compliments, sentiments and input. You all seem like the right type of responsible people to be involved in this hobby and that is very important.

Im off the soapbox now :)

[sunfish11]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13684473#post13684473 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BangkokMatt
Big E - I totally agree with your sentiments. However, you can't really put a 5 year scale on it as some fish, such as gobies and anthias etc, are unlikely to live that long regardless of good practice.

So, how long do anthias usually live then? I have 4 lyretails that I have had 3 years and where adults when I aquired them. Do I have a few more years with them?


Lisa

[Big E]

Where is this 3 year life expectancy info for anthias & gobies coming from? Like I stated above, my anthas lived 5-6 years. I think we've learned more about taking care of them as far as feeding & social structure as more people have kept them.

As far as gobies go, there are cases of many alive over three years. I haven't read this whole thread but I saw some posts 6-7 years & still going strong.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1157146&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

DarG-- I would say once the fish are past the 6-8 week period after purchase & acclimation they are set for a long life with proper care.
How the fish are treated during this period is most important, but of course there could be complications beyond the reefers control.

Unexplained deaths can happen but I believe they are few and far between.......I've never experienced one in all my years, except during those QT weeks.

If you read threads on this site most deaths could have been avoided & result from mistakes, neglect, ect. I know from my early years before the internet, I killed a lot of fish due to inexperience & mistakes.

[DarG]

I would probably agree with 6 - 8 weeks in most cases. I would have to say that If I didnt experience a fish death after 8 weeks in the past 10 -15 years or so, the fish went on to live a long life. Not all of them made it 10 years and there were, Im sure, a couple exceptions but in general, I would agree with that. I only have a 90 at present so a big key is overcrowding and obviously that would depend on the size of the tank/system.

One thing I can say for sure is that I had far more success with live rock than over the old days with ornamental bleached corals but certianly that also has to do with the filtration methods. I did quite well in the old days of undergravel systems and HOB or canister filters but nothing like the live rock and DSB/plenum systems I have run going on 15 years now. Outward disease has been a thing of the distant past for me for a long time now and that is a huge plus. But I still go by a few old school methods that have worked well for me.