Why would I need to do a water change?

[Manuel Martinez]

My last water change was about three months ago, and all my water parameter are perfect. Why would I need to do a water change?

[gkarshens]

Because your corals will use up trace elements that you are not testing for.

[JER-Z]

to replenish trace elements

[ludnix]

To replace any elements that might have been used up since the last water change. When you say your parameters are perfect, does this include tests of magnesium, alkalinity, and calcium? If you think everything has been tested and is in appropriate levels you may have no reason to do a water change. Most of us however have no way of testing trace elements and such a water change is an easy way to be sure we are replacing them.

[Manuel Martinez]

Ludnix

Alkalinity, Calcium, N2, N3, Ph, Ph and Phos are on the correct level. I'm no sure about Magnesium, but I'm using S-Plus to add magnesium.

[HiJacK]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13676659#post13676659 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Manuel Martinez
My last water change was about <b>three months ago</b>, and all my water parameter are perfect. Why would I need to do a water change?

How is this possible? What are you stocking? If it was possible to do w/c every 3 mo's or so I would do it also, but don't want to risk killing anything.

When I had my freshwater setup, I was able to get by without doing w/c for 3 mo's.

[bikeguy1]

Did anyone mention to replace trace elements?

[Manuel Martinez]

I have about 90 pounds of live rock, 6 inch sand bed and large refugium.

[pledosophy]

I don't have to do water changes on all of my systems. I do dose to replace things that are used. So far so good. There are many threads on the subject. Some people are more succsessful then others in not doing water changes. If your stock is on the low side, your natural filtration on the high side, and your not keeping certain corals, it's not that bad of a course to take IMO.

I do have to do water changes on my mixed reef to keep things happy.

JME

[pledosophy]

Check the link for another thread about it and a description of my very infrequent water change tank.

HTH

[scubasteve247]

i dont see the reason why you would not want to do one. even if you have more then adequate filtration. if you have a coral of any kind, or a fish of any kind. IMO it seems foolish to not do a water change. Our understanding of water chemistry has made leaps and bounds since i first started keeping saltwater aquariums as a child.

however there is still much to be learned about the chemical dynamics between fish and corals. And for this reason I highly encourage the regular partial water change.

[pledosophy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13676998#post13676998 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by scubasteve247
IMO it seems foolish to not do a water change.

Some of us think it is foolish to do them when they are not needed, and of no benefit to the tank or it's inhabitants. ;)

[Loon]

I've heard of people not doing one only once a year, in nanos. So as long as everything is happy, why not just skip it.

[scubasteve247]

the solution to pollution is dilution. plain and simple

no tank is without pollution ie waste, lack of trace elements or improper ionic balance

sure our corals will grow, our fish will live in less the optimum conditions, but why settle for less with something we care so much for and invest so much in.

[commonstranger]

I have to agree with scubasteve on this one. I dont mind doing the extra work and knowing Im doing the best I can to keep my tank healthy. I also look at it that if something does go wrong I can say I did everything I could to try and prevent it.

[ludnix]

I can go quite a while without doing a water change in my system, but I noticed much better growth from my corals when I did weekly water changes. While testing nitrates, mag, calc would appear to be in proper levels but I can't deny that I see slowed growth when the water changes are infrequent.

Everyone has a different tank and there's more than one right way to do things in this hobby, if you don't see any ill effects from skipping water changes than there's little reason to worry about it.

[greenbean36191]

The simple answer is to regulate things that you can't test. Like other people have said, you help keep trace elements up, but it's also to reduce undesirable things you can't test for. Depending on what method you use to dose for calcium, alkalinity, and magnesium, you can elevate ions such as sodium (which you can't skim or filter out) and sulfate in the tank. Also, foods import lots of elements in very high levels as compared to NSW, often including heavy metals.

[john rochon]

and the list goes on and on. every notice how your tank responds to a water change after an extended period of time.
things just look so much better. honestly, this is a silly question

[gliebig]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13678468#post13678468 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by john rochon
and the list goes on and on. every notice how your tank responds to a water change after an extended period of time.
things just look so much better. honestly, this is a silly question

I do water changes fairly regularly on my tanks, and I have to say that I've never noticed any + resonse from my corals. They look the same if I do water changes or not.

[fishinbuc]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13678672#post13678672 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by gliebig
I do water changes fairly regularly on my tanks, and I have to say that I've never noticed any + resonse from my corals. They look the same if I do water changes or not.

Yeah, but John asked "ever do a water change after an extended period of time.....?". If you do them regularly you may not notice. Try going 6 months without a water change, then do one. I'm sure your corals will respond.

[crvz]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13678751#post13678751 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by fishinbuc
Yeah, but John asked "ever do a water change after an extended period of time.....?". If you do them regularly you may not notice. Try going 6 months without a water change, then do one. I'm sure your corals will respond.

Agreed. If I go a couple months, then do a water change, I probably won't notice much. But recently I started doing them again every 2 weeks, and everything looks better. Granted this is a subjective argument, but I've always had more success with regular water changes.

[GoBigOrGoHome]

By using an aragonite calcium reactor, can this help with trace elements while avoiding the introduction of unwanted ions such as Na, Cl, and SO4? I, too, realize the need for water changes, but I was wondering if there's a way to keep up on Ca, Sr, and all the other essentials contained in aragonite w/o other ion buildup? Does anyone know what these elements are bound to in their solid form in aragonite? Are they just elemental?

[Gdevine]

Almost all (but not all) tank problems are a result of a water condition...it's a fact. By doing "frequent and regular" water changes significantly reduces those risks.

Yea I know, there are members here that are going to say they went years without a change...ok so the exceptions and not the rule.

Do your research and read the experts and they all say the same thing over and over..."frequent and regular water changes".

It's interesting to note however what does "frequent and regular" mean? To me it means whatever works for your tank that provides for the optimum environment through testing as long as your are doing regular water changes on whatever cadence. Sprung recommends once a month changes of 10% to 25%.

For me, I do weekly 12g NSW changes each and every week on a 65g (that's 48g's on average per month) and my coral and fish thrive, creatures abound in the tank and I've never had a serious bout of anything other then the typical stuff we deal with.

As said on an earlier post, better safe then sorry in my opinion.

[gasman059]

U can keep a tank w/o major water changes but need to dose trace elements and have good filtration plus if your biolad is big a denitrator will help.

Its possible but needs some special attention to details.

[rynon]

The other side of this is, what's in your synthetic salt mix that you can't test for? Some "known" people avoid doing water changes for that reason. I went probably (not sure exactly) 6 months without doing a water change on a mixed tank, I lost nothing and everything looks fine. My nitrates went up to about 5 and some of my acro's darkened a bit but that's it. Some of my acro's look better now than they did before, the purples are really brilliantly colored instead of pale. The reason I did this was because I felt that doing water changes was actually fueling a type of algae I had (Chrysophytes). I can't say the algae is gone but it's certainly not worse either.....so apparently something in the synthetic salt was adding some fuel to the fire. During the time when I did no water changes I added kalk and Mg, that's it. I did just perform a water change of about 30 percent this past weekend, none of my corals seemed to respond at all to the change, good or bad. I think what it comes down to is if you know your system and feed appropriately and WATCH what's happening you can go much longer than most people think without causing any harm or suffering to any of your livestock.

After just reading Gdevine's latest post in this thread, I can say there is at least one expert who would not agree with "frequent and regular water changes".

[JustinReef]

I used to think my tank was fine and doing great with water changes every three months until I started doing them weekly. What a difference it made!

Sure my tank looked good and was healthy with 4 water changes a year but I really did not know what I was missing. Since doing weekly water changes on all my tanks, things have never been better and growth is amazing!

So yeah, you could probably keep your tank alive and healthy by doing a yearly water change if you really want but you will probably be missing out on a gorgeous tank!

I don't really understand why this comes up relatively frequently...If you take a look at the tanks (especially TOTM) that are flourishing, they all do frequent water changes. And they are not just doing them for fun :D

Water changes are not a big deal and are the one part of reefing that you really shouldn't mess with IMO. I think too many people try to go as long as possible without doing them instead of having a proper schedule that stays the same for years and keeps all your livestock happy. Don't worry if your test kits are saying you don't need one, do it anyways.

[DT's_Reef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13678061#post13678061 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by greenbean36191
The simple answer is to regulate things that you can't test. Like other people have said, you help keep trace elements up, but it's also to reduce undesirable things you can't test for. Depending on what method you use to dose for calcium, alkalinity, and magnesium, you can elevate ions such as sodium (which you can't skim or filter out) and sulfate in the tank. Also, foods import lots of elements in very high levels as compared to NSW, often including heavy metals.

I agree with the above poster.

People's definition of "doing great" varies tremendously and I used to think that I had a rocking tank without doing regular water changes and then I discovered otherwise, when I started doing them.

If your animals aren't too finicky, then you might be able to get away without doing water changes. Regardless, your animals will do better with the best possible environment.

It's kind of like people who say they don't need to keep their calcium at normal levels because they don't have SPS. While it's easier to get away with this when you don't have SPS, your corals and system will be healthier if you have the proper levels.

Everything impacts everything else at some point.

[hyperfocal]

I'd be concerned about overall system margins. IMO, even if not critically important for day to day health, regular water changes give the system some "wiggle room" when Bad Things (tm) happen. If the system is already running close to the edge, it's a lot easier to nudge it into oblivion.

I've been driving pretty much accident-free for decades, but I still wear my seatbelt... for the same reason.

[JustinReef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13681474#post13681474 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hyperfocal
I'd be concerned about overall system margins. IMO, even if not critically important for day to day health, regular water changes give the system some "wiggle room" when Bad Things (tm) happen. If the system is already running close to the edge, it's a lot easier to nudge it into oblivion.

I've been driving pretty much accident-free for decades, but I still wear my seatbelt... for the same reason.

Your seatbealt analogy is great and your (tm) of "Bad Things" is even better! LOL.

[Electrobes]

I haven't done a water change for about 2 months, mainly because my system is new. I can understand both sides but honestly, if anything bothers me about water changes it isn't potential build up of unwanted stuff, or the potential for bad salt stock... it's water conservation.

My system is just about now hitting the age where water changes would benefit it well. I plan on doing water changes once a month... it's a happy medium between water conservation and the overall health of the system.

We are all interested in doing what's best for our reef tanks. If it works.. then great. :)

[Rae C.]

I just switched to a new tub of salt and now I have an outbreak of Bryopsis. If i had stayed with my water changes at every 2-3 months, I would have avoided this outbreak for another 2 months. Instead, i began to worry about my infrequent water changes when all the advice is to change water weekly.

One reason to go months between water changes is to prevent introduction of contaminants/algae.

[audio101]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13683310#post13683310 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by out
I just switched to a new tub of salt and now I have an outbreak of Bryopsis. If i had stayed with my water changes at every 2-3 months, I would have avoided this outbreak for another 2 months. Instead, i began to worry about my infrequent water changes when all the advice is to change water weekly.

One reason to go months between water changes is to prevent introduction of contaminants/algae.

Why would there be algae in fresh salt water? It makes zero sense, using that excuse as a reason not to do water changes.

[Rae C.]

Just a coincidence probably, but the algae didn't start until I used the new salt...

It was just a possible reason for not wanting to change water.

[Gdevine]

OMG water conservation! Honestly, are you serious? If so, then I want to hear that you brush your teeth and take a shower once a month to conserve water. LMAO!

And properly done WC's DO NOT PROMOTE algae; on the contrary it eliminates it.

This thread needs to end...it's getting ridiculous.

[saltman123]

Whenever I go long times without changing my water I slowly see algae's show up, but I do feed a lot so that might be it.

If you have free time, why not change it? Seems like when I am too busy that last thing I want to do is change my tank, but I am sure everything in there appreciates it.

[GoBigOrGoHome]

In out's defense, it is possible that the new salt mix had an excess of NO3 or PO4 in it. Nonetheless, that's no reason to get scared and stop doing water changes!:lol:

[BuddhaKiss]

True, but that's not the fault of doing a WC, its the fault of the possible bad batch of salt.

My WC's are too easy for me not to do them regulary. Pump water out, pump water in. Takes me about 10 minutes. The cost is marginal, granted i have a smaller system them others...so basically, I don't have too many excuses NOT to do regular WC's.

[Paul B]

I once read a post that stated "I never do water changes and all my stuff is healthy" then I read that his tank was 2 months old.
You can probably go years without a water change just like you can go for years without changing your underwear but that does not make it right. 3 Months is no big deal, I don't usually change water for 4 months but I don't have time. I would like to change it at three months. The longer you go, the less trace minerals you have in solution and the more waste products you will have but if you like, don't ever change any water. It would be a good experiment. I don't pay for your corals so It does not affect me at all.

[pledosophy]

Since I play both sides of the coin for this one (doing 20-30% weekly water changes on one tank and the other tank gets a water change every 6 months or more) I do have different perspectives.

One thing I have been conflicted on and attempted to understand is when did we decide these "trace elements" were so important? As far as I know, there have been no studies done on the importance of argon, or how a system reacts when it is not present, but it is a trace element. For all we know it could limit the uptake of nitrogen by bacteria. It could be good it is gone.

What about thulium? Anyone know what happens when that is not present? In sea water it's concentration is .00000017 ppm. Is that an important one?

I'm not trying to be arguementative for the sake of arguing. I really would like to read the studies if you have a link. IMHO we might be getting to caught up in trace elements especially when so many of them have not been shown one way or another to be positive or negative.

There are test kits for most of the small trace elements that we see in the hobby minus three or four of them. But that still means we can test for more then 99% (actual number not made up randomly, serious, fine don't believe me :D here is a link http://www.seafriends.org.nz/oceano/seawater.htm)

I think there are lots of ways to run a successful tank. Some include weekly water changes, some include monthly changes, some every six months. If you have a tank that needs a water change once a week do that, if it needs it every 6 months do that. There are many other factors invovled.

[pledosophy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13683797#post13683797 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Gdevine
OMG water conservation! Honestly, are you serious? If so, then I want to hear that you brush your teeth and take a shower once a month to conserve water. LMAO!


I have not brushed my teeth in years. ;)

[hyperfocal]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13694500#post13694500 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by pledosophy
I have not brushed my teeth in years. ;)

You should, plaque is great for nutrient export :rollface:

[Paul B]

I have not brushed my teeth in years

Check please, I'm out of here

[Electrobes]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13683797#post13683797 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Gdevine
OMG water conservation! Honestly, are you serious? If so, then I want to hear that you brush your teeth and take a shower once a month to conserve water. LMAO!

And properly done WC's DO NOT PROMOTE algae; on the contrary it eliminates it.

This thread needs to end...it's getting ridiculous.

Dude, simmer down... you're gettin' all riled up over a thread in a forum for... wait for it.. a discussion. :rolleyes:

[gasman059]

The longest its been in one of my tanks was 5 months-monster skimmer-denitrator and trace replenishment.

An established tank with adequate filtration and attention to details could go on for a while.

Prolly not the best but it can be done, I don't recomend if this is your first BBQ.


This was that tank BTW.

http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n320/gasman059/029copy.jpg[/IMG]

[pledosophy]

:D

Any more input on trace elements and why or which ones are important?

[GuOD]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13676793#post13676793 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by HiJacK
How is this possible? What are you stocking? If it was possible to do w/c every 3 mo's or so I would do it also, but don't want to risk killing anything.

When I had my freshwater setup, I was able to get by without doing w/c for 3 mo's.


I haven't done a water change in probably 8+ months... and I have some SPS that are growing (at the rate of .5" / yr :D)

I've also had the same fish forever and they are perfectly healthy :lol: