help with tangs!

[vipjd39]

I am wanting to add some tangs to my 125 long reef tank. currently I have 4 wrasses and want some tangs.

What I REALLY want to add is a
Achilles
Purple
Clown
Yellow eye

If I am able to add all of these based on everyones opinions I would be able to get them all very small and juvenile and able to add them at the same time. I posted in another forum and was told that most likely I should shy away from the achilles based on tank size. i am alright going that route. So would I be able to do a clown, purple and yellow eye. Or am i pushing it with size and temperment.

If I am i am willing to take all suggestions because i will definitely be adding tangs. I am going to shy away from the usual tangs such as yellow, powder brown etc. Maybe something like the whitecheek, etc.

any help is greatly appreciated.

[crvz]

Achilles and clown tang will not tolerate each other, and both are very challenging fish to keep. Not sure who told you to shy away from the achilles, but it is the better choice in a 125 (I assume this is a 6' long tank, correct?). Clown tangs get very large very fast (38cm in the wild, compared to 24cm for the achilles), and can be considerably more aggressive than the achilles (which is saying something).The purple, achilles, and yellow eye kole tang are all from different genera, and on paper they will tolerate each other's existence.

However, it really comes down to the individual fish, and you may still have aggression issues. Both the achilles and purple tang have a reputation of being bruisers, and depending on the fish they very way may not enjoy sharing the home with other surgeonfish of any genus. I would not try more than 2-3 tangs in the 125.

[MattL]

Those four tangs are too much for a 125gal. A 125gal (long) is not a very large tank when you're dealing with tangs. I know. I have one (with a tang in it)!

Leave clown tangs in the ocean. They get large, and they are MEAN. He will not be compatible with your other fish. IMO, clown tangs should not be collected, at least with the frequency that they are.

A yellow eye kole tang will work well. Any Ctenachaetus tangs are good to keep. Have you looked at the tomini or chevron tang? There are some others that are rarer.

A purple tang will also work well, but I would add him last. They can be aggressive and very intolerant. Would a yellow be a good substitute for you? I hear yellow and scopas have better temperments.

Achilles tangs are very challenging. I would say he will get along with the other two, but they are a difficult fish to keep. Read the Achilles Tang primer for peoples' experiences.

The Naso spp. are out. A 125gal (or even a 180gal) just isn't large enough.

There are other, rarer Acanthurus which have better temperments than the frequently collected Powder Blue, Powder Brown, Gold Rim, and White Cheek. These tangs can be hard to keep and especially the Powder Blue can be very aggressive. Have you looked at the mimic tangs, the chocolate tang, the lavender tang, the lieutenant tang, and the convict tang? The convict tang in particular stays small (6", like the tomini), and has a good disposition.

I think you may be able to fit four in, but only the four smallest tangs, like a yellow, a kole, a tomini, and a convict.

Matt:cool:

[MattL]

Oh, and I the seahorses aren't going to work with any tang.

So you're going to have to choose tangs or seahorses. You can't have both.

Matt:cool:

[vipjd39]

the seahorses have moved into a 92 gallon corner tank. I guess I need to update that LOL. the 125 long is strictly a reef tank now with sps and fish.

very interesting to hear about the achilles. I do know it is a very difficult species to keep, but i have been doing much research on them and how to properly qt and acclimate so hopefully I will have the success others have. I just don't want to keep him in a tank that will be too small for him. but if the general consensus is he is alright in a 125 i just might go with him.

I have taken the clown tang off the list for sure. So maybe ill just start with 2 tangs. The achilles and the yellow eye. If I do that would i still be able to add a yellow, tomini, or convict in the future?

[Tangwich]

Having an Achilles now for approx 4 months now, I would strongly suggest you DON'T get an Achilles. As many people have mentioned in the past that they need tons of open swimming space, I have to agree. Mine does laps in my 225g and feel it is starting to outgrow my tank. I completely restructured my entire aquascape just for this fish and even so feel that it would do better in a 300g+. A yellow eye cole AND either a yellow, tomini or convict would do great in your tank. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

[sunfish11]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13699247#post13699247 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Tangwich
Having an Achilles now for approx 4 months now, I would strongly suggest you DON'T get an Achilles. As many people have mentioned in the past that they need tons of open swimming space, I have to agree. Mine does laps in my 225g and feel it is starting to outgrow my tank. I completely restructured my entire aquascape just for this fish and even so feel that it would do better in a 300g+. A yellow eye cole AND either a yellow, tomini or convict would do great in your tank. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

I agree...

[vipjd39]

thanks for the info. My main goal is the safety/satisfaction of the fish, not my viewing pleasure. So what about maybe a purple, yellow eye, and a whitecheek?

[sunfish11]

Whitecheek is in the same catagory as an achilles. I would skip that style of tang if it was me and go for something a little less active and a little more peaceful.

Lisa

[vipjd39]

when you say same category are you referring to Acanthurus category? Or saying that it is a bully just like the achilles. I believe it was stated earlier that the convict would work well and he is in the Acanthurus as well. Just a little confused...sorry.

[MattL]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13699247#post13699247 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Tangwich
Having an Achilles now for approx 4 months now, I would strongly suggest you DON'T get an Achilles. As many people have mentioned in the past that they need tons of open swimming space, I have to agree. Mine does laps in my 225g and feel it is starting to outgrow my tank. I completely restructured my entire aquascape just for this fish and even so feel that it would do better in a 300g+. A yellow eye cole AND either a yellow, tomini or convict would do great in your tank. Good luck with whatever you decide to do. I agree with this.

I had a Powder Blue who went from 3" to 6.5" in less than three years, and had to go to a bigger tank because he didn't fit in my 125 anymore.

There are equally beautiful (IMO, although more subdued in coloration) Acanthurus spp. that are hardier, less active, far more peaceful, and with better personalities, not to mention the Ctenochaetus spp. tangs.

Matt:cool:

[vipjd39]

Matt,

Thank you very much. can you suggest some of the Acanthurus that you speak of

[crvz]

Good choices of Acanthurus species include the Mimic/chocolate tang (A. pyroferus), or the convict (A. triostegus).

Choose one of these to combine with a Ctenochaetus spp. (kole, chevron, or tomini) and you'll probably be rather successful.

[vipjd39]

what about adding the purple tang to that mix?

[EMV7904]

Something missing from this thread is that the Achilles needs OXYGENATED water. Lots of current, lots of flow, lots of oxygen! I bring this up because a person is going to buy what a person wants to buy. I'm not saying that the OP will, but hey it's happened to all of us at one time or another. You really want something at the LFS, know you 'probably' shouldnt but can't resist. If the OP reaaaaaaally wants an Achilles, they will probably go for it. Not saying they won't be successful, I just want to make all points known. Others already mentioned swimming space, and the fact that the Achilles is a beast...

A friend of mine about 5 years ago wanted a Powder Blue AND an Achilles Tang. He knew better than to have both in the same tank, so he set up a 180 for the Achilles and a 125 for the Powder Blue. Both are STILL the healthiest tang's I've ever seen. He runs about 4 or 5 Tunze's in each tank though, lol. That is the lesson I learned from him with these 2 fish, flow flow flow.

And now going back and re-reading the thread, I'm glad I chimed in. It sounds like vipjd39 IS going to go with the Achilles Tang: "So maybe ill just start with 2 tangs. The achilles and the yellow eye. If I do that would i still be able to add a yellow, tomini, or convict in the future?"

And to answer that last question, I'd say no. Once you add the Achilles to a 125 gallon aquarium, I believe you are done adding tangs. Not DEFINITELY, but probably. Unless you have a real small Achilles and add a much larger tang that can hold his own with a situated and settled in Achilles. But that defeats the purpose because adding a big tang to this tank makes no sense. I think you're asking for trouble with a purple AND an achilles...do one or the other. Whichever one you go with, add it last. And leave some time between the first tang you add and the Achilles/Purple.

I had a purple a few years ago that didn't like me adding ANY other fish. He harrassed a yellow watchman goby for god's sake. lol I can't even imagine the carnage if I had added an Achilles.

So to sum up, yes the Achilles is hard to keep (not impossible), yes they are aggressive, yes they are gorgeous, yes they need lots of oxygenated water (I believe they are from surge zones?) and no, they most likely won't tolerate tangs added AFTER it.

Just my .02

EV

[EMV7904]

I also wanted to add that I don't agree with this statement:

"Have you looked at the mimic tangs, the chocolate tang, the lavender tang, the lieutenant tang, and the convict tang?"

I agree that Acanthurus Pyroferus is a GORGEOUS fish and a GREAT canidate for a 125, but NOT the liutenant tang. He will get much too large. The lieutenant tang is the same fish as an orange shoulder tang, but from a different geographical region.

[E.intheC]

One other thing that seems to be missed.. convict tangs are great, however I personally feel they shouldn't be kept singly.. they should be kept in a shoal at minimum.. and that requires a very large tank.. that's my 2cents.

[msch1999]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13699247#post13699247 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Tangwich
Having an Achilles now for approx 4 months now, I would strongly suggest you DON'T get an Achilles. As many people have mentioned in the past that they need tons of open swimming space, I have to agree. Mine does laps in my 225g and feel it is starting to outgrow my tank. I completely restructured my entire aquascape just for this fish and even so feel that it would do better in a 300g+. A yellow eye cole AND either a yellow, tomini or convict would do great in your tank. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
I agree also....:D

[vipjd39]

thank you all for your responses. i would like to go back and just go over a few points.

EMV7904-thank you very much for your information. I believe you are very right when you say pretty much ifsomeone wants something they are going to get it. I actually had ruled out the achilles when i asked what other Acanthurus would be good candidates. Unfortunately but fortunately (haha) I have also ruled out the purple tang due to the aggression. As far as flow I am rocking 4 MP40w vortecchs (I go overboard sometimes!) so hopefully that will be plenty. Again, the health and safety of the fish is my first priority. Even though I believe they are beautiful creatures I will not risk it just for my viewing pleasure. Before you mentioned your post about the achilles in the 125 I had loosely made up my mind on the chocolate mimic, yellow eye kole, and a good ole yellow tang. I figured those would hold me over while i build the 480.
Thoughts on the chocolate mimic, yellow eye kole, and yellow together in the 125. thanks again for everything.

[vipjd39]

oh yeah, and is it a yellow mimic tang or is it called a chocolate tang. Websites have way different pics and names. i know as a juvi they are yellow but there seems to be great variation when they are an adult. sorry for my ignorance

[EMV7904]

The confusion about mimic tangs is that they can mimic about 3 different Angel's...or is it 4? lol The Chocolate Tang is MY favorite (Acanthurus Pyroferus) and yes it is yellow as a juvi. When you shop for it, ask for it by scientific name. Don't get the one that mimic the Eibli Angel, or the Halfblack angel. The one you want mimics the Heraldi Angel. I can't say enough how much I love this fish.

You'd be fine with a Chocolate, Yellow, and Yellow Eye Kole.

[EMV7904]

P.S. About the Achilles...

My friend that has the nicest and fattest Achilles Tang I've ever seen also runs a 6 foot tall skimmer and a umpteen watt UV sterilizer on the tank (180). He can't point to ONE thing that has helped with his success over the 6 years that he's had this fish, but I bet it's a little bit of all of it.

He has enough live rock but not 'too much', tons of coral, lots of hiding places, tons and tons of flow, tankmates are a copperband butterfly, foxface, damsels, chromis, 6 line wrasse etc. The 180 and 125 share a HUGE sump in the basement where the 6 foot skimmer is, and the ridiculously huge UV sterilizer is too. These are both homemade DIY projects and way over MY head. ;)

[crvz]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13704238#post13704238 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by vipjd39
oh yeah, and is it a yellow mimic tang or is it called a chocolate tang. Websites have way different pics and names. i know as a juvi they are yellow but there seems to be great variation when they are an adult. sorry for my ignorance

The half-black mimic, lemon peel mimic, and heradli mimic are all the same species, A. pyroferus, and will have similar coloration (though the half-black is more white/blue instead of yellow/brown as an adult). The eibli mimic (A. tristus, I think) will be more dull as an adult. All the common names are indeed confusing.

[MattL]

I agree that Acanthurus Pyroferus is a GORGEOUS fish and a GREAT canidate for a 125, but NOT the liutenant tang. He will get much too large. The lieutenant tang is the same fish as an orange shoulder tang, but from a different geographical region. [/B] They are different species with different maximum sizes:

Lietenant Tang: Acanthurus tennentii 10"
Orangeshoulder Tang: Acanthurus olivaceous 14"

Matt:cool:

[MattL]

[i]Thoughts on the chocolate mimic, yellow eye kole, and yellow together in the 125. thanks again for everything. [/B]Those are great choices. I'm so glad that you investigated first. I can't tell you how painful it is to be constantly telling people to take fish back to the LFS!

There's an old saying about people: beauty fades, but dumb is forever.

In terms of tangs, the beauty does wear off when you're constantly dealing with aggression and illness and heartache and death.

Achilles and clown tangs are achingly beautiful fish, but I'll enjoy them in public aquariums and in photos online.

Just for future reference, the Lavender tang is also considered a great tang; peaceful and hardy and easy.

I was unaware that convict tangs should not be kept singly. I'll do more research on that. And yes the orange shoulder tang is too large for a 6ft tank, but I have heard good stories about them.

There are actually lots more tangs that are just as good. But they are usually less colorful. To me, I feel you learn to enjoy their more subtle beauty, and having a less brightly colored fish that is fun to have is better than a brightly colored fish that is a PITA.

Matt:cool:

[reeferstace]

I have a lavendar tang (Acanthurus nigrofuscus). It is beautiful and very well behaved. Mine is about 4" and is the largest fish in my tank. (Currently in a 55 but moving to a 150 next week). Supposedly they get about 8". I LOVE mine. :) I am going to eventually add a Tomini or Kole.

[vipjd39]

just wanted to let everyone know ive ordered my tangs. Ive got the chocolate/mimic tang, yellow eye cole, and yellow tang all coming in on friday! Thank you everyone for your help. Without all of it, I probably would have ordered something that would have been much trouble long term. Thanks again!