high nitrates need help

[saltyboy84]

ok to start off the tank has been up and running for about 3 weeks now i have i added my clean up crew about 2 days ago, yes i know its to soon but i was having hair algea problems and my nitrate is around 10ppm i know that its not to high but for a small tank it is and for a saltwater tank its way to high but iv been doing 20% water changes every few days when the nitrate gets to high im able to lower it to 10ppm but thats all i can get it to, i dont really have anything in there only snails and some hermits and a peppermint shrimp and about 1/2in sand bed and about 10 lbs of live rock and the tank is 5.5 gallons can anyone give me some ideas as to why i cant get the nitrate down to 0ppm and is there somthing that i need to change in my tank to help i get to 0ppm, thx

[1DeR9_3Hy]

Time and patience lol

You sound like your husbandry is up to snuff, just keep at it and wait it out.

[unda_da_see]

i have a 12 gallon over 2 years and the nitrates stay around 10ppm with weekly 2-3 gallon changes. i'm not keeping delicate corals so its o.k. the only way to get close to zero is to buy a good protein skimmer. stay away from quick fix additives. fish, soft corals, polyps, can do fine with 10ppm.

[NanoReefWanabe]

10 is not that high at all...i was keeping several different montiporas with mine at ten and they were all growing well...i have since got my trates down to almost 0 and my corals look worse for it...i am hoping it is an adjusting period...as i lowered my trates with a nitrate coil reactor...which has been online for almost two months now, so it is really starting to work...

personally i think you are doing too big of wc to soon into your tanks life...3 weeks the tank is still cycling whether your tests show it or not...the tank is nowhere near mature enough to reduce is own nitrates with bacteria. and every change you do almost certainly wipes out some of the bacteria if not the food for the bacteria, slowing the whole process down...

there is no need to WC a tank that is cycling...let the tank do its own work...if i were you i would maybe do a 10% change every week...the best way to keep your tank running smoothly and NO3 free is to not over stock it..the bacteria and routine small WC will take care of the rest...

also i would look into your source water as part of the problem...have you tested your freshwater presalt mixing for NO3? and for PO4?

where did you get the rock...some rock can leach out PO4 which would cause your GHA problems...

there are far too many variables to eliminate before you start doing massive water changes to remedy the problem...your better to find the problem...i would start with:

source water, then check your mixed water, then check your rock (do this by removing a piece of rock sitting it in a pail of new clean SW, with an airstone let it stew for a couple days then test the water in the pail...)

as for 10ppm...dont worry about it...if your getting into the 20,30,40 and up then there is a problem...even at 20ppm i was able to keep any softy but Nepthea alive and thriving...

[ScarabRa]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13787814#post13787814 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by saltyboy84
ok to start off the tank has been up and running for about 3 weeks now i have i added my clean up crew about 2 days ago.....hair algea problems and my nitrate is around 10ppm.... and about 1/2in sand bed and about 10 lbs of live rock ......

Ok

a) NEW tank, and set it up using Live rock,...good
b) 3 weeks in u added some CUC...good
c) 1/2 in of sand (what kind, live sand??)

the only cause for possible nitrate leaching above i can see is "c)"

Id have to guess the tank u got the sand out of had allot of un dissolved solids in the sand. This would explain the nitrate going down right after a WC, and then spiking back up.

How are you doing a water change? taking cups of water from the top or bottom?

if the bucket isn't dirty at the bottom, or cloudy, then you aren't doing a proper water removal.

Use a gravel vac hose, and suck the sediment out of the sand when siphoning out water for your water change.

[NanoReefWanabe]

1/2" of sand isnt going to hold any undissolved solids, i am actually surprised it stays put...simply dragging your finger through it before the WC will be more then enough to stir it up..

what are you running for a filter/ water movement? assuming your using a HOB? have you replaced the pads etc in it?

what kind of clean up crew do you have in there? to big or too many will contribute to NO3 as well..

[rhunter513]

sounds like you added live rock that was not fully cured....most is not even if they say it is. Thus you have enough die off that's causing the nitrates and hair algae. Given that its a new tank, I would watch your cuc closely for signs of stress and keep doing only 10% weekly water changes. Keep any and all filter media you are using as clean as possible

[saltyboy84]

well to anwser a few questions i havnt tested the water that i get but its RO and there shouldnt be anything in it, the filter im using is an aquaclear 30 with a surface skimmer only thing in it is filter floss i did take some of the live rock out and put it into a small tank and i will test that in a few days and for the sand bed its just live sand from a bag i seeded the tank with live rock that i had in my old 2.5g tank that i had for 8 months, as for the cleanup crew 5 snails not sure on the name but they are small and 5 blue leg hermit crabs and one peppermint shrimp they all came together, the ammonia is 0 the nitrite is 0 and nitrate is still 10 and as for the water change i siphon the water from the bottom of the tank and i mix my own salt but i buy the RO water and is 1 gallon to much and do you think i should stick to just topping off for a few weeks or should i do water changes every 2 weeks and there are a few zoas in the tank but they came on some live rock i got, and i got the rock from maru petstore they have several saltwater tanks that are doing very well the mostly deal in fish and idk if this will help but my salinity is 1.022 is that to low, if so should i rase it and what would be good, im also using a 18000k bulb over the tank could that be y there is hair algea, i do move the light up about 14 inches at night so it has a more moon look to it, well i hope that anwsered all the question, and if there are anymore just ask because im sort of new at this i failed at the 2.5 so i want to start right on this one, and thx for the help

[NanoReefWanabe]

18000K wont cause algae issues, unless the bulb is old...what kind of light? and do you mean 1800K <---that would be far too yellow and likely would cause massive algae issues.. lights should be off at night, raising them wont do you much good, this could also add to your algae as essentially you have a 24hr photo period...

with no photosynthetic livestock in there you should consider turning the lights off for three days, as that has help a lot of people clear up algae issues..

that is a lot of cleaners for a new tank, i dont think i have that many in my 20g.

test the water...RO water dosent usually have a 0 TDS reading, it maybe low but not 0...still better then tap water but...makesure you buy RO/DI, the DI is what completely eliminates the TDS the RO membrane cant..

yes SG is fine if you only plan on keeping fish, inverts require your salinity be 1.024-.026 (hermits included) you can easily raise it by topping off with 1.026 water for a couple days...

if you can your AC30 would be better converted into a fuge, you can google how to do it to a AC110, then just make the parts smaller, at the very least change the floss every day, 2 days max...

10% every two weeks should be fine in your tank

let us know how it goes...

[ScarabRa]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13792517#post13792517 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by NanoReefWanabe
1/2" of sand isnt going to hold any undissolved solids,

sand from a tank that was ultra dirty will hold tons of nitrate.

Thats a symptom of un disolved. and a usual problem is the donation tanks sand, gravel. It absorbs in to the porus crushed coral.

So explain how he does a water change, and the nitrates go down, then a few days later they go up again. and how he could possibley have higher than 10ppm in the tank in the first place, after only 3+weeks.


also un crued live rock will not cause nitrate, it will cause a spike of anmonia and nitrite, but nitrate takes quite a while to develope.

[NanoReefWanabe]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13796648#post13796648 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ScarabRa
sand from a tank that was ultra dirty will hold tons of nitrate.
no, it will hold detritus which will break down into ammonia and PO4, and Via the nitrogen cycle be broken into nitrite and nitrate...i am certain his algae problem is related to PO4 and not NO3

Thats a symptom of un disolved. and a usual problem is the donation tanks sand, gravel. It absorbs in to the porus crushed coral.

NO3 is not a solid in terms so much as it is a molecule. Undissolved solids are food and poop. nitrate can get trapped in the sand but release easily by stirring, i am not so sure NO3 can be residually trapped in the individual pieces of substrate itself like PO4 could and PO4 will fuel hair algae a lot more then nitrate would, as it takes far less PO4 in a system to create a problem then it does NO3.

So explain how he does a water change, and the nitrates go down, then a few days later they go up again. and how he could possibley have higher than 10ppm in the tank in the first place, after only 3+weeks.

3 weeks is more then enough time to have developed nitrates in the tank via die off from live rock etc...especially if there were sponges on or in the rock...bacteria will quickly consume the ammonia and nitrite, leaving nitrate, since there is no room in his tank for annoxic bacteria there is no further denitrification thus nitrate remains in the tank. Lowering and raising NO3 in a closed system is part of a closed system and is exactly what water changes are for...are we to assume that after our first water change we no longer need to do them to reduce nitrates?

how after what i can assume has been about 10 or so water changes, siphoning the 1/2" sand bed do you think anything could be in the sand?

also un crued live rock will not cause nitrate, it will cause a spike of anmonia and nitrite, but nitrate takes quite a while to develope.

think i already addressed this in my post..the process happens almost simultaneously...once the one bacteria is plentiful enough to effectively reduce the ammonia the next bacteria are already present doing their job too, as are the bacteria converting it into nitrate...as concentrations increase and decrease so to does the populations of said bacteria...

i really hope non of this came across as harsh as it reads...that is not my intention...

[saltyboy84]

well i did a good siphon of the sand yesterday and changed 10% of the water i checked the RO it was good and the algea seems to be going away and the light is a power glo and it has a purple glow color to it half and half white and purple look, hahaha and my shrimp molted its shell wow i never seen that before im checking the params now. ok well nitrate is 5 or 10 i cant really tell they both look the same ammonia is 0 nitrite is 0, and i did add some small peices of live rock to the filter and there is some cheato in the tank but its to small im still waitng for it to get bigger and it seems my snails have had babies i see alot of little snails all on the glass but one snail does seem to be a little stressed he hasnt gone very far from his spot zoas are good shrimp good all hermits doing well, oh the aqua clear has a flow rate of 150 i added a surface skimmer to get the film off the surface but the top of the water is dead still is there anything i can do to help this and the lights i have arnt the best its just a light i got a petsmart that was 18 bucks and i didnt have the money for a nice light but i was thinking of getting a Coralife Aqualight Advanced Series Hang-on Tank Mount Fixture with built in cooling fan, does anyone know if this would be a good purchase for a light or do you have any other suggestions the light that comes with it is 14000k less light that the one i have but i feal that im outting to much light into my aquarium, also does anyone know if the maxijet 400 powerhead can be run dry it said on the box it can but i dont see how and i ask because i would like to add some more flow to the tank mostly at the surface for good gas exchange, and thx for the help

[NanoReefWanabe]

what do you mean run dry? pumps cant run dry they burn out....

Mjets can be run externally though, but you have to plumb it...my Closed Loop is just a Max Jet1200...if you want you could drill for a 3/4" bulkhead about mid way down the tank...90* up out of it, into the bottom of the maxjet (intake) then plumb the output to the surface of the tank...make sure you put a shut off valve and union in the intake portion...i dont think MJ are self priming though so the pump will have to be below the surface of the tank, and the return plumbing up and over the top, or drill two holes and use a diverter to get the water flow spraying at the top of the tank...glass is thin in a 5 g tank you will have to use a dremel and be very careful..

also 14000K is not less light then 18000K it is actually more usable light, as 14KK bulbs will have a high PAR rating then an 18KK bulb...light spill is going to happen no matter which bulb you run...