Why are PPE's so $$$

[mil hse]

So i ve been doing some searce on here for a little while and i don't really understand why they are so expensive? im saying this because people are asking somthing around $20 per head? And from what im galthering they grow fast and are pretty much everywhere... or atleast on here. I mean i can understand if they took forever to grow or something along these lines but i just don't get it...

Milhse

[tomu]

I believe that there are two reasons why most of these corals are so expensive. 1.) They have a very cool name. From what I can figure, the more adjectives in the name the more expensive the coral. 2.) So many people are willing to spend the money. If people keep paying these crazy prices then sellers will keep selling them for crazy prices.

[nellahtes]

they actually grow really slow. id be lucky if mine grew 2 or more polyps a year!

[650-IS350]

I'd love to get them for $20 a head. I for one don't think they are fast growers. I'd given out a couple to a bunch of friends and they can't even get them to multiply fast enough. Even my own PPEs are my slowest growers. I think that's why they keep their price as they grow slow, they aren't as readily available as most polyps.

[george albert]

id buy a few at 20 a head!cheapest ive seen has been around 40 a head.from what i have gathered they do grow very slow and the demand is high so you get the high prices

[chris0942]

when i had them, there growth was very slow.

[amore169]

The PPEs I got grew 4 heads in 3 months I don't know if that's fast growing but hopefully they keep growing at this rate.

[phljess]

Here is why they cost so much.
1. The supply is low and demand is high.
2. They have great color. If you have seen them in person they are awesome. This is why I believe a lot of people who have enough to frag will not cut up their colonies.
3. They grow rather slow.

[dalston]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13886976#post13886976 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tomu
I believe that there are two reasons why most of these corals are so expensive. 1.) They have a very cool name. From what I can figure, the more adjectives in the name the more expensive the coral. 2.) So many people are willing to spend the money. If people keep paying these crazy prices then sellers will keep selling them for crazy prices.

+1

[Pufferpunk]

Where???

I'd love to get them for $20 a head.

They sell them for $80 around here!

[gflat65]

I've got two frags. One I've had since June of 07. It has put on one polyp. The other I got in January of 08. No new growth. I have some other zoas that grow pretty quickly, but these just don't for me.

[dc_909]

The are expensive because I have had 2 polyps for over a year (no growth) and now they are melting.

[Pufferpunk]

Try dosing with vitamin C & you might be able to sell them (man, I feel like a broken record...) See the thread.

[DOTZ]

I have PPE and mine seem to grow at a decent rate. I just wish they would grow faster because they're paying for part of my tank cost to run.LOL I just sold and traded 20 of them and have a frag of 4 right now (need a new bucket of salt). Just waiting for them to adjust to the fragging and attach to the shell then they'll be up for grabs. If anyone is interested. One was fragged about two weeks ago and is more than ready other two are were fragged 3 days ago and only one has opend so far.

[Pufferpunk]

VC also enhances growth.

[DOTZ]

I also think these are the hardiest corals I have ever seen. I shipped 4 to NJ on two day shipping since it's been cold out. The postoffice took 4 days for them to get there and the guy I sent them to got them in 4 days later and said they oped up right when he put them in the tank.

[DOTZ]

Do you have a link to the vitamin C thread? Search only work parttime for me.LOL

[Pufferpunk]

It's right on the 1st page here.

[DOTZ]

Thanks. I found it and will bookmark it. Wow thats going to be alot of reading.

[Pufferpunk]

Especially if you start at the very beginning!

[mil hse]

Well I do need to make a change. I made a typo on the $20. Ive seen them on here for $40 a few times and as far as high demand it seems like everytime i check the for sale section theres always a few frags for sale... and don't get me wrong. these are beatuiful zoo's and i would gladly pay that much for them. :-) I want someone to post a BIG colony of these bad boys.

[Pufferpunk]

$40 makes more sense.

[Abominable Reef]

I must be the exception here. I started with 7 polyps in a trade in may of '08, and now have or have traded over 40 polyps. Geuss I must be doing something right!:D

[650-IS350]

A person in florida that originally had them, whom passed them around I believe had a picture online of hundereds of them. It was a site to be seen...

[aph]

I've seen them a few times. A local store owner here, who has a very reputable online Zoanthid biz, was telling me that he just thinks it's because of their growth rate.

I'm not sure though, because I have heard of people who have PPE's reproduce just as fast as other Zoas.

Personally, I think people are just paying for the name. They don't seem to be that rare.

[nellahtes]

are they true PPEs with lineage? or are they like every other coral and if it looks like ppes so they are called ppes. ones with lineage grow extremely slow.

[DOTZ]

Sorry but lineage is the dumbest thing I have ever heard of. It really makes me sick to hear that. Yeah mine have lineage to God, the one who made them, not to some retard that decided I can get people to pay more for them because they were in their tank.LOL

Really though how do you get lineage from something that comes from the ocean?

[nellahtes]

The first person who had them those are original. Not ones who come out 2 years later. Those are not original PPES. That's why I brought up lineage. are we talking about TRUE PPES or anything that looks like them?

[DOTZ]

LMAO That is sooo funny. So you say that who ever took them out of the ocean first has true ones? LMAO I better go and get some true dragon eyes out of the ocean then I'll have lineage to me everyone can pay me a butt load of money to have something just because I said it was special. No matter what you call a turd or how you polish it it's still a turd. So say Joe blow got them first then I go and get the same thing form the same spot but he had them first so now they're not as good.


I'm not trying to be a jerk to you, but this lineage thing is just down right stupid!! I have never heard of something more dumb. Do you want papers with your coral now.LOL I have PPE adn I could care less about any lineage. Even if they were sold to me with lineage I would totaly blow it off. That is just nuts.

[DOTZ]

And come out? What do you mean come out? They're not manufactered they're a part of a nature and grow.

[nellahtes]

Well your doing a good job of being one! The OP wanted to know why they were expensive. Some say they grow fast some say slow. The originals(lineage) that started the PPE craze grow slow. That's all I'm saying. Just because they look similar doesn't mean they are. I look like my brother and we are similar, but we don't both have the same name. We can argue all day but its pointless so let's get back on track. Why are PPES so much $$$?

[Pufferpunk]

nellahtes, Do you have PPEs? We still need to do a trade. ;)

[nellahtes]

i do but still at 1 polyp since the last time i fragged. we will get a trade done eventually!

[mil hse]

Maybe they are the same but after fragging so much there getting more adapeted to the aquarium life and getting better care and vits than in nature? so everyone could be right :-) just my $.02 but it kint of makes since.

[Magga Pie]

I think its just for for the name...Just like clothes, I use to work at Abercrombie and Fitch and people would pay 75 dollars for a pair of jeans just because of the name when you can get the same exact ones without the name at Walmart for 10 bucks just my thought on it.

[Abominable Reef]

So...these are not "the real thing"? and that is why they grow well for me?


http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/66420PPE-med.jpg

[Pufferpunk]

Look real enough for me! What's that next to them, on the left?

[Abominable Reef]

Teal colored protopaly's

[650-IS350]

You PPE's looks real nice N happy AR.

[idareefer]

I got my original ones from Reef Envy in Florida, $40 a head a year ago, purchased 2 heads, now have 18 heads, not to shabby, and they are real nice, moderate flow, lower portion of tank, and they eat what passes by them, i always see them closing up on something tasty.

[idareefer]

I think I have a pic of some on my gallery, they are the Blaine P. PPE'S

[650-IS350]

I've seen a bunch of PPE's, yours look pretty similar to Blanes.

Here are Blaine's

http://www.thesea.org/zoanthids/

http://www.farms-of-thesea.com/catalog/fund_drive.html

[Pufferpunk]

I'm getting closer... gota frag of Jokers today! Also, Purple Hornets & a Candy Apple Red polyp! Also a huge, VERY bright colony of over 100 Fire & Ice. :D

BTW, all of this cost me $170 & I didn't pay for their names, I paid because I really like them.

[southstar066]

I have True PPEs... started with 2 head about a month ago ...now have 5... when i frag them i will sell for $25 a head or make a nice trade with some one who is interested

[650-IS350]

When you state " TRUE " are you implying that you were able to acquire them directly from blane?

[southstar066]

welll the who i got them from was coralfarm123, where he got them im not sure, by TRUE i mean some people try to say the ones that are thin with long thin skirts are PPEs but the arent...PPEs have nubby skirts and are thick...did my come from blane at some point IDK, but def considered TRUE PPEs

[korndogg091]

I dont know about anyone else but ive always had a hard time keeping them alive. they always seem to do the umbrella thing and then wither away. I think they keep their price because they are sweet looking, hard to find and sometimes hard to keep. I know several people that own them and they all agree that they are slow growers.

[cdness]

supply and demand... typical pricing structure for something that is a slower producer than other things. But on a side note, at $40 per head I don't need any PPEs. If I can find something similar but isn't "true" PPE for $5 per head I'll go that route... The whole LE and naming thing has made the prices on some of these nice looking zoas and paly go through the roof.

[Pufferpunk]

That's why I'm happy with my Jokers--they're close enough, for the price.

[Pufferpunk]

LOL, what don't you have?

[60Cubed]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13905698#post13905698 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by aph
I've seen them a few times. A local store owner here, who has a very reputable online Zoanthid biz, was telling me that he just thinks it's because of their growth rate.

I'm not sure though, because I have heard of people who have PPE's reproduce just as fast as other Zoas.

Personally, I think people are just paying for the name. They don't seem to be that rare.

How naive you are my friend, how naive you are.

[triton77]

how about these?......... why is the price at $1050!!!!!!!

http://www.frags.org/memberfragdetails.php?fid=2561

[650-IS350]

Because at that time, there were SOOO few out there and it was the talk of the town. People hyped it up so much just like the Purple Hornets and other before it. At least this time, some of us reefers actually brought up the issue and hopefully drove the price back down to NORMAL levels???

[PauChi]

Whoever came up with all these PPE or PPPE or whatever LE or nonsense names??? It's just a Marketing ploy to gain popularity Hype and/or being the "infamous" Original collector from way back when .... really!! Pure Marketing Greed .... IMHO.

I've seen these so-called PPE's or whatever named Paly or Zoas out there and I refused to get "trapped" into these so-called ... Oohhh .. I gotta get this popular Coral ... since everybody has been talking about it .... nowadays!!"

I collect what I Really Like and not because they're Hype of the Moment.

On a Side note (off topic) .... meanwhile in Toronto ... Aussie Acans hype have been slowly fading off ... quietly.

Paul

[waynem]

I collect what I Really Like and not because they're Hype of the Moment.

I agree but the problem is humans then to like the same things a lot of the time.

Add the fact they do you look really nice, seem to be hard to come by and its a classic supply v demand case.

The market will find a balance soon enough then I will get some.

[waynem]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14532939#post14532939 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by triton77
how about these?......... why is the price at $1050!!!!!!!

http://www.frags.org/memberfragdetails.php?fid=2561

I think I have about 20/30 of these on a rock, they are very small pulps 1/4 dia maybe a little less. I will check tonight ..I might be getting the PPE very soon lol

[crookedantler]

I started with 2 polyps a year ago and now have 5.My safecrackers,I started with 5 at the same time and now have over 50,so the PPE are definatly a slow grower for me.

[LCN]

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j300/neyugn0w01/IMG_5320.jpg
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j300/neyugn0w01/IMG_5319.jpg

[triton77]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14555235#post14555235 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by LCN
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j300/neyugn0w01/IMG_5320.jpg
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j300/neyugn0w01/IMG_5319.jpg

How come the skirts are not as stubby as the original PPE's?.........

[MUCHO REEF]

Tomu & dalston

I believe that there are two reasons why most of these corals are so expensive. 1.) They have a very cool name. From what I can figure, the more adjectives in the name the more expensive the coral. 2.) So many people are willing to spend the money. If people keep paying these crazy prices then sellers will keep selling them for crazy prices”



Aph wrote, “Personally, I think people are just paying for the name. They don't seem to be that rare.”



DOTZ wrote, “ Sorry but lineage is the dumbest thing I have ever heard of. It really makes me sick to hear that. Yeah mine have lineage to God, the one who made them, not to some retard that decided I can get people to pay more for them because they were in their tank. LOL

Really though how do you get lineage from something that comes from the ocean?
LMAO That is sooo funny. So you say that who ever took them out of the ocean first has true ones? LMAO I better go and get some true dragon eyes out of the ocean then I'll have lineage to me everyone can pay me a butt load of money to have something just because I said it was special. No matter what you call a turd or how you polish it it's still a turd. So say Joe blow got them first then I go and get the same thing form the same spot but he had them first so now they're not as good.


I'm not trying to be a jerk to you, but this lineage thing is just down right stupid!! I have never heard of something more dumb. Do you want papers with your coral now.LOL I have PPE adn I could care less about any lineage. Even if they were sold to me with lineage I would totaly blow it off. That is just nuts.”




Magga Pie wrote, “I think its just for for the name...Just like clothes, I use to work at Abercrombie and Fitch and people would pay 75 dollars for a pair of jeans just because of the name when you can get the same exact ones without the name at Walmart for 10 bucks just my thought on it.”



650 wrote “Because at that time, there were SOOO few out there and it was the talk of the town. People hyped it up so much just like the Purple Hornets and other before it. At least this time, some of us reefers actually brought up the issue and hopefully drove the price back down to NORMAL levels???”



PauChi wrote
“Whoever came up with all these PPE or PPPE or whatever LE or nonsense names??? It's just a Marketing ploy to gain popularity Hype and/or being the "infamous" Original collector from way back when .... really!! Pure Marketing Greed .... IMHO.

I've seen these so-called PPE's or whatever named Paly or Zoas out there and I refused to get "trapped" into these so-called ... Oohhh .. I gotta get this popular Coral ... since everybody has been talking about it .... nowadays!!"

I collect what I Really Like and not because they're Hype of the Moment.

On a Side note (off topic) .... meanwhile in Toronto ... Aussie Acans hype have been slowly fading off ... quietly.

Paul”



Mucho Reef

[jonrx]

I like the Joker's Palys more than the PPEs because they look almost identical but grow much faster.

[audio101]

I saw jokers and ppe's side by side today and the jokers actually look brighter. I see no reason to pay extra for them just because they have a green mouth.

[jonrx]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14560680#post14560680 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by audio101
I saw jokers and ppe's side by side today and the jokers actually look brighter. I see no reason to pay extra for them just because they have a green mouth.

The purple definitely is brighter on the Joker's, IMO.

[LCN]

Please do post some pictures of the Joker.

[PaintGuru]

I see we continue to have more complaining by the "Names are evil/I won't pay more then $1 per polyp crowd". PPEs seem to be very slow growers and hard to find, or at least tough to grow. I've always had issues with PEs while I can grow other types pretty well. Typical prices I have seen is $30+pp, which I don't really have a big problem with. If everyone had them, they would be cheaper....plain and simple.

[Pufferpunk]

Here's an example: I bought some palys with no name. I've never seen anything like them before--they have a glowing yellow/green center, with a pink ring around them, a skinny blue ring around that & a blue & white striped skirt. I really don't think I paid a whole lot for them, maybe $30 for 3 polyps, because the guy was tearing down his tank. They multiplied very well & when a friend stoped by, he asked if I ever fragged them, he'd love some (norm for us, as he watches all my tanks when I'm on vacation, so whatever he wants, he gets!). Our local swap was happening soon, so I fragged off about 1/2 of them. I price things generally at what I paid for them, so they were $10/polyp or 3 for $25. I couldn't believe there were any left over from the swap but I really didn't have the right lighting over the tank to show off their true beauty (my 1st swap--I know better now). After the swap, I posted a thread in our local club forum that everything left over from the swap was 1/2 off. So a fellow came by & got a $25 frag for $12. Some guy saw them in his tank & loved them. That guys offered him $65 for them! So... moral of this story: Beauty is in the eye of the beholder!

[IridescentLily]

If a PPE paly was much slower to grow, one would think they'd be less expensive, not more expensive. :)

[Pufferpunk]

It would be the other way around. I'd rather not sell something that only pops out a baby every so often, unless for a really good offer.

[dalston]

Here is my couple of pennies...

How is it that these polyps are tagged rare? is it because the ocean only produces a few colonies a year? or because they are an endangered species? NO of course not! polyps that are tagged rare are done so to lure unknowing reefers into paying marked up prices on something that is readily available. How are they readily available? look around...I bet thousands of reefers on RC have these polyps, it's just about looking in the right places. I am lucky enough to have a great reef club where these sorts of so called LE corals are if not given away for free then priced extremely reasonable...this is what reefing is all about!

I think now people are concerntrating too much on the designer names and having a tank full of so called rare polyps and making money than finding out what really matters like origins, depths of collection, caring for different types and also sharing zoa's and palys with fellow reefers for free or minimal cost.

I know its been said before but the word RETAILING comes to mind...

[PaintGuru]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14564741#post14564741 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dalston
look around...I bet thousands of reefers on RC have these polyps, it's just about looking in the right places.

I see people say this all the time. "You just have to know where to look". Funny that they never follow up on this. Shoot I'm in one of the Z&P capitals of the world (Michigan), and I have problem finding them through our local boards. All of you out there that claim these are so readily available for low prices, please feel free to post contact info for these sources so everyone can get in on the great deals!

The measure of supply isn't the ocean....it is the importers that are bringing them into the industry. PPE's could be a dime-a-dozen in the ocean, but if the importers aren't bringing them in, their actual supply is limited.

[Pufferpunk]

No kidding. I live in Chicago & the only source I could find them was selling them for $80/polyp! No way, Jose...

A fellow from here offered me a polyp if I'd try out his new invention of a coral "scope". It's really cool & magnifies the corals about 2 1/2x. I was supposed to give my review on the thing--that's why he sent me the polyps (he actually sent me 2 PPEs--I just paid the $35 shipping). The thing works great & I feel bad getting those polyps for free, when the fellow never really told me where to review his product. So guy... if you are reading this, please contact me! :)

BTW, they grew a nice baby already!

[dalston]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14565167#post14565167 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by PaintGuru
All of you out there that claim these are so readily available for low prices, please feel free to post contact info for these sources so everyone can get in on the great deals!

Most people don't want to for fear that whoever they give these to will chop them up for a profit on-line. I personally have seen someone give away some polyps to a local guy only to see them chopped up on craigs list the next day. It's hard to tell who is a true reefer and who is just looking for these to make money.

This is why its such a sad argument, because it's come down to reefers not wanting to share for fear of retailers posing as reefers.

[IridescentLily]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14564511#post14564511 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Pufferpunk
It would be the other way around. I'd rather not sell something that only pops out a baby every so often, unless for a really good offer.
Well, that's you though. And you're not a money grubbing anti-reefer.

[Pufferpunk]

Yup, I'd rather keep it than frag it!

[LCN]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14566773#post14566773 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by IridescentLily
Well, that's you though. And you're not a money grubbing anti-reefer.

Why does it have to be about money? Every time I post a pics of the PPE or any other coral, I get people asking too buy a frag. Sometimes I decide to sell or trade and other times I decide not too. It has nothing too do with money, but more with accessibility to the frag and if I want to ruin my colony.

[IridescentLily]

Oh I'm sure there are those situations, yes, absolutely. I was not talking about that specifically. I was trying to address the question of the poster's title. I was more talking in general terms and I should've said so. Clearly you aren't in the money grubbing anti-reefer column. It's more about your mother colonies getting irritated and accesibility and that.
However, I'm pretty sure you don't sell them for $100.00 per polyp either do you?

[mystery_reef]

i got mine 2 weeks ago for 30.00 for one polyp i see another one sprouting out the side already so hopefully my growth rate will be decent. agreed that a lot has to do with the name, it is one of the most famous names for a zoa out there...i think.

[Fishindude88]

I will try and pick some up this spring for 25 per polyp.

[dmorel]

It is amazing to me how this argument happens over and over again and how fundamentally different the zoa world is from the SPS world. You would think in this hobby everyone would all be on the same page.

It is all about lineage. Dotz, I submit that you have missed the point.

"Named Corals" imply more than just a color pattern. They imply a coral that has exhibited specific traits in a captive environment that is repeatable given similar conditions. Captive SPS that are traded around ALWAYS relate back to the original source, are discussed in the generation of captive raised that they are etc.

"Back in the day" the zoa world used to be the same. Tub's blues were only tub's blues if you could trace them back to the original colony. Blaine's PPE's were the same.
But something happened where the zoa enthusiasts started buying lots of nice looking zoa's for very inflated prices after having been given fancy names. The lines got blurry and corals that had the same colorations as others started being sold as such, and people bought them. Perhaps presuming they were in fact the same coral, perhaps not.
This would not play in the SPS world, a tryee coral is a tyree coral and that's that.
I don't get why it's not the same in zoanthids, I really don't.

Now, the real question is why does this matter? What makes a "named" coral worth more? Hint: It's not the name! It's the fact that coral is now a known commodity That is where the value comes from. That is why captive corals cost more. Sure, there is some value that is derived from the mystique of the coral, the appearance otherwise it wouldn't matter that it was a known commodity but at the end of the day the thing that is most valuable is the guarantee of quality (plus the fact that it's not being harvested from the ocean anymore which is good for everyone).