Closed Aquarium Top?

[lamontcarter]

Could it harm your fish and other marine buddies if you have an acrylic top on an aquarium that's pretty much airtight, with an air-pump pumping a lot of air into the aquarium? I ask because I would like to minimize the amount of evaporation that takes place, while keeping the tank full of oxygen. There would be a small hole in the top of the aquarium, to release some of the extra air inside the aquarium so there's no pressure buildup or anything.

[whosjohnny]

how big is your tank? and what are you keeping?

[lamontcarter]

i'm in the process of building. it's going to be huge, probably upwards of 1000 gallons. I am planning on having tons of different animals, from octopi, to reef fish, to rays. It's going to be separated into 3 different sections by live rock and metal mesh screens.

[returnofsid]

Keeping the top on will help with evaporation...however, it'll hurt with lighting. The top will quickly get loaded with salt creep, which will diminish light A LOT.

If you do keep it covered, your idea of pumping air may work...however, keep in mind that when we use an air pump, we aren't actually introducing air into the water. It's the bubbles rising through the water column, moving water from lower in the tank to the surface, where it can get oxygen exchange. Sooo, you have to first have oxygen at the surface of the water.

Without enough oxygen, your pH can quickly drop to lethal levels.

[havingfunin08]

oxygen is put into the water when it goes through your filtration process.. It does not matter if you have a hob filter or a sump..
when the water goes down the drain hits the media then down through the bio balls (if you have them) and falls into the water then pumped back up full of oxygen.. like posted above it will get full of salt creep and it will be very bad ! So Have a plan in place for that.

[returnofsid]

Now you're assuming that there's even a sump or HOB filter.

The skimmer, if one is used, will be the most useful piece of equipment for oxygenation of the water. However, the largest are for oxygenation is usually the surface. Oxygen exchange at the surface is severely limited when the tank is covered.

If you read through any of these forums, you'll find TONS of posts about low ph levels. The problem is almost always found to be a covered aquarium or newer home that's very air tight.

[havingfunin08]

[QUOTE]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13897264#post13897264 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by returnofsid
[B]Now you're assuming that there's even a sump or HOB filter.

thats true! lol

[whosjohnny]

that's right, get a massive bio-ball chambers, oxygen problem solved.

[lamontcarter]

Ok, but how do you deal with the salt creep on the lid?

[SunnyX]

Covering an aquarium is always a bad idea. Many people here have listed the pitfalls so I will not post them again.

Evaporation is just a part of reefing. I suggest you install an auto top off unit and a good moisture exhaust system .

[lamontcarter]

What is a moisture exhaust system? I figure it "exhausts moisture"...but how?

[jmigchelbrink]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13896789#post13896789 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by lamontcarter
i'm in the process of building. it's going to be huge, probably upwards of 1000 gallons. I am planning on having tons of different animals, from octopi, to reef fish, to rays. It's going to be separated into 3 different sections by live rock and metal mesh screens.

Really? REALLY?

But seriously, I see about 5 things wrong with this statement.

[lamontcarter]

Do tell

[Juruense]

Who would you want to "minimize evaporation" on a THOUSAND GALLON tank? To minimize the work to maintain it? Trust me the work will not be minimal no matter what.

Covering the tank is a terrible idea. You stocking list is a terrible idea. No offense but you need to do some more thinking before you start building.

[lamontcarter]

the animals will be separated from each-other if theyre not compatible with each other. The stocking list is fine. They will not be able to come into physical contact with each other. They probably wont even be able to see each other. They wil only share water, cause i want all those species, but i dont want separate tanks.

[Uncle Salty 05]

"It's going to be separated into 3 different sections by live rock and metal mesh screens."

I would be VERY leary of using any metal in the tank unless it is sealed somehow with epoxy or something to keep it from coming in contact with the water.
I would suggest plastic or acrylic instead.

[lamontcarter]

Thats one of my other options. I was thinking silver becuse it doesnt corrode and i hear it has natural anti-bacterial properties, so algae wouldnt grow too much on it beneath the live rock.

[Juruense]

Are you serious?

[crvz]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13968757#post13968757 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by lamontcarter
Thats one of my other options. I was thinking silver becuse it doesnt corrode and i hear it has natural anti-bacterial properties, so algae wouldnt grow too much on it beneath the live rock.

Your thinking is flawed, unfortunately. If you did something like this you would definitely want to use a plastic material to separate the sections. But please continue to research, as this system would need to be thousands of gallons to succeed. And the difference in requirements from octopi (not reef safe which need very tight enclosures or they will escape) to reef safe fish (which are bait for many other creatures) to rays (which require thousands of gallons to truly succeed) make this well more complicated than you may first assume.

[jmigchelbrink]

And I love the fact that you "are in the process of building" and you don't even have dimensions yet.

And the fact that you don't have a job and want to build a tank that could easily cost over a hundred thousand dollars.

[jbird69]

Why dont you just put a top on the section you want to keep the octopus? Dont keep any light hungry specimens in that section do to the light restrictions stated above. All the water will mix thru your PLASTIC mesh deviders. I asume youll have a hinged/locking lid so you can get in there when necessary...not to mention to get it set up. oh yeah and to clean the salt creep once a week...

Sounds interesting. I'd like to see the process.

Jay

[TTU_Reefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13974060#post13974060 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jmigchelbrink
And I love the fact that you "are in the process of building" and you don't even have dimensions yet.

And the fact that you don't have a job and want to build a tank that could easily cost over a hundred thousand dollars.


agreed but for all you know he could be sitting on a huge trust fund or something, personal issue...

Getting the proper information on his question is all the OP is looking for here.


Agreed with other posters about the stocking and covering the tank, however covering the tank tightly for the octo would be a good idea! The octo would most likely also be able to slip though whatever divider you use to seperate the tanks.

Correct me if im wrong but wouldnt the metal dividers cause issues for rays(like it would sharks?) as well.

[lamontcarter]

Thanks ttu_reefer. The issue of where i get my money for this, the price, or who my employer is doesnt matter here. No-one on this forum (at least i hoped no-one) signed up to debate someones personal life. And not posting the dimensions in this thread is a very different thing than not knowing them.

A plastic screen would probably be a better application for this, but im guessing where its located its going to require cleaning. Usplastics.com sells some pretty good egg-crates, and perforated pvc sheet that looks promising.

The main reason i thought up the closed top is that i heard having a tank that large in your house can wreack havoc on your walls, ac, and just about anything else mold can grow on. Im trying to think of a way to either stop, or divert the moisture somewhere else. I thought of a dehumidifer, but that would only speed up evaporation...maybe a pipe leading from the tank to the outside, but in winter that would throw off the tank temp right? Any ideas guys?

[SunnyX]

OK guys and gals, I think you have flamed him enough. :D

If you are serious and dedicated to creating this setup then please keep asking questions so we may assist. It is a large undertaking, but can be done. The only thing that had me worried was your experience level. But, like I said, if your dedicated you can do anything. Although I would suggest that you pick up and read a good book like The Reef Aquarium Vol. III before getting started: CLICK HERE (http://www.amazon.com/Reef-Aquarium-Science-Technology-Vol/dp/1883693144/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1229691856&sr=8-2)

Check out this thread here, we talk about ways to take moisture out of your home along with a bunch other tips: CLICK HERE (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1529181&perpage=25&pagenumber=3)

[lamontcarter]

Thanks a ton ;)

[crvz]

Simple vents to pull air from around the tank to outside, much like you have in the bathroom.

[LOTUS50GOD]

I know of many reefers that have gotten out because of the humidity that a 1000 gallon reef puts out.

When doing a big tank consider the following..
Power Consumption- what is your estimated electric bill

Heating and cooling the water- Reefs are more succesful with minor fluctations

Lighting considerations for the species you want to keep

Automation- big tank maintenace is a full time job if you dont have some automation.

Proper Equipment - Its hard to go cheap when you are dealing with that much water.

To elaborate.. my display is 340 with a 100 gallon sump (usually 1/2 full). So .. my total water is around 410; but lets say 400 for the sake of arguement.

Over my tank is 3x400 MH that run 10 hours a day.
To chill the water I have a 1/2 hp chiller
I have everything (including water changes) automated through a AC III. Just to keep my levels I go through 400 gallons of salt mix a month.
When I did my tank, I had 3x20 amp GFI breakers put in.
My electric bill went up by about 80 bucks a month, water bill about 30 bucks a month. Power and Water are CHEAP in AZ compared to other parts of the world.

For flow in my lil 340.. I have a GenX55 for the sump return, a Seqence Dart on a OM 4 way for the closed loop, 3 seio 1500's on the controller, AND 4 MJ 1200 with the SureFlow mod (2100 gallons a piece on the high side).

I still have dead spots in the tank... and turn the water over well in the 50x range.

Anyway.. good luck on the build.. you may want to ask a few questions in the Big Tank forum.

[TTU_Reefer]

agreed, once this project gets off the ground it would prob be best to move it to the large tank forum IMO