135 Gallon FOWLR Tank without sump?

[Stormvillefish]

Also put this in the "new to hobby" forum but thought I might get more answers here ...

Okay ... could I keep a 135 gallon FOWLR tank successfully without a sump and simply use an Octopus hob skimmer, 150 lbs of live rock, with maybe four Koralia 4's in each corner? The fish I'm looking to keep are listed below... also interested in other fish anybody wants to recommend. Let me know. Thanks

Picasso Trigger
Dog Face Puffer
Green Bird Wrasse
Mimic Tang
Maybe a tomato clown

[LisaD]

I ran a 120 sumpless with a pretty high fish load for quite some time without problems. I eventually had a tank crash due to disease, but it was not related to the stocking or filtration (long, sad, story). The system originally had a sump, but the return pump failed. My upgrade took me a lot longer than expected, even after I had the new tank at the house, so I had the 120 running sumpless for several years.

I had a juv imperator angel, mimic tang, zebra moray, harlequin tusk, two clownfish and a royal gramma.

However, this tank (a custom 5' 120) held about 200 lbs of live rock, many were large pieces. I ran the tank barebottom, with two HOB skimmers (AquaC Remora Pro and BakPak) as well as a HOB Aquafuge Refugium, crammed with macro and lit 24/87. This tank would not be big enough for all these fish at adult size, but it housed them for over three years, at least two of them without a sump.

You may have to add another HOB skimmer, maybe up the live rock, even use a HOB refugium -- or else scale back your list. You will have to see how it goes and monitor closely. I think it is doable with your fish list.

BTW, while I run my 210 with a sump, I still use a HOB Remora Pro on the back, as a back-up, in case the return pump fails. This way, I will at least have some circulation and skimming until I can fix the problem.

[Stormvillefish]

Thanks Lisa ... funny I was thinking about putting two hob skimmers at opposite ends of the tank. Quick questions ... what order would you add the fish I have listed? Do you think the clown is a good idea ... keep going back and forth on him. Is it a good list where the fish should get along ... is there any other fish you can recommend adding or swapping out for another? Thanks again.
-Mike

[LisaD]

Mike,

You have listed a few of my favorite fish. This is what I'd do and the order I'd use:

1. Mimic Tang, one of the best and most beautiful tangs, IMO.

2. Green Bird Wrasse - personally, I'd substitute Australian harlequin tusk, or Cuban hogfish, or Diana's hogfish - I like a "tougher" fish (would still add second).

3. Dog Face Puffer - I'd try to get a black or dalmation color morph

4. Tomato Clown - or Clarkii clown, either should be okay with this mix - I might avoid pairs, for aggression reasons, but would consider one of each.

5. Picasso Trigger - if you want something similar but a bit more exotic, consider an Assassi trigger. If you want something about the same size but mellower, consider a bluethroat or sargassum trigger.

[Snapper66]

:) I have a 135 Gallon Tank with 4 Groupers and a Snowflake Eel with a Pork Fish a Fire Clownfish and a Black and White Clownfish.I have a Large Dottyback with a Small Dwarf Hawk Fish and a Coral Beauty and a Huma Huma Trigger Fish .All in my 135 Gallon with no Problems I have had them for Months now.I have alot of Mushroom Corals with a Large Leather Coral I have 2 Large 60 Gallon Filters and a 125 Corallife super skimmer on it so YES YES YES.You can have a 135 Gallon Tank without a Sump on it with alot of Fish.:smokin: :smokin: :)

[Stormvillefish]

Thanks Snapper66 ... sounds like a great tank and can't wait to set mine up. My fish stocking plans won't allow me to have any corals ... but cool to know I could if I ever decide to change it to a reef.

LisaD ... I love the Australian Harlequin Tusk ... will definitely switch out the bird wrasse for one! I do plan on putting two skimmers on opposite sides of the tank ... which hob would you get ... I was looking at the octopus and bakpak. Also will add the fish in your recommended order ... after I put the first fish in how long should I wait until I add the second ... and then the third and then .... (you get the idea!)

Thanks again folks ... really appreciate the help.

-Mike

[LisaD]

Hi Mike,

Personally, I do like BakPaks, but only on small tanks with other filtration and not too high a stocking density. I don't think two BakPaks will do it for your 135.

I like the Remora Pro by AquaC. Don't know the Octopus, but have heard good things. I'd get the best two skimmers you can afford. Read reviews/threads on HOB models. Once you decide on one or a few models you want, check Ebay, craigslist, selling/trading forums here and at local clubs. People are always upgrading. If you were going to have a sump, I could sell you a near-new Euroreef skimmer rated for at least 120 gallons... :)

Rate of adding fish depends on the biological filtration capacity of your tank and taking the time to ensurie that new fish are healthy. It's hard to go slow when you are excited about stocking a tank, but I'd try for one every 2-6 weeks. It is really important to QT fish. One sick fish can wipe out the tank. You can set up a temporary QT in a large Rubbermaid or Sterilite tub. Put some cured live rock in the tub, leave it bare bottom, maybe include some healthy macro if you have it, keep good circulation and filtraton. Buy healthy looking fish, minimize stress, and keep in QT 2-6 weeks. Longer is better, but if you buy a very healthy looking fish, and it remains healthy looking and eating well in QT, then I think 2 weeks is enough. Sometimes, if I get a fish from a really good source, I'll shorten QT, but this is a shortcut and a risk. If you have a fish with any sign of disease, I would wait at least two, preferably four, weeks AFTER it has recovered good health and has not shown signs of disease before putting it in your tank.

If you find you need to treat with meds that will wipe out the biofilter, remove the rock, plants, any carbon in a filter. Do have some meds on hand - I usually keep methylene blue (for dips/baths), a good mix of broad spectrum antibiotics (e.g., neomycin, sulfa), formalin or ParaGuard (used only if needed), Cupramine (try never to use it), and some kind of treatment for flukes and internal parasites (e.g., Praziquantel, piperazine). I try not to medicate unless necessary, but if you do need to medicate, you will need to have the meds on hand for best chance of success.

Good luck. I think you will have a great tank.

[Stormvillefish]

Hey Lisa ... I have a 15 gallon tank ... will that be large enough for a QT? Thanks.
-Mike

[cooltankmate]

i am running my 125g sumpless since day 1. it's been 2 years now. everything work fine and my fishes are very healthy. i have 150lbs live rocks, coralife super skimmer 225, emp 400 HOB power filter, 1 maxijet 1200 + sureflow mod. that's it.

[LisaD]

Mike, how big are the fish you are adding? I'd say the fifteen gallon tank is probably not big enough. Try going to Walmart, Home Depot or a Dollar Store and buy a large plastic storage bins. They aren't very expensive. You can use it as a temporary QT, then store stuff in it later. :-)

You can find something like the bins in the link below in 100 quart or larger sizes. I prefer clear plastic, but the bigger sizes are easier to find in opaque. I use some of the blue tubs for holding and curing live rock. I saw some clear plastic bins that were at least 30 gallons recently in a Dollar Store for $13:

http://www.rubbermaid.com/rubbermaid/product/product.jhtml?prodId=HPProd260063
http://www.rubbermaid.com/rubbermaid/product/category.jhtml?cat=HPCat100186

[Stormvillefish]

Cooltankmate ... thanks for replying ... looks like you and a lot of people have success running a sumpless larger tank ... I'm pysched ... I'm definitely going to give it a try. Do you like the coralife super skimmer? Have heard mixed reviews. What type of fish do you have in your tank. Can't wait to start this tank!

Thanks Lisa ... I thought the 15 gallon would be too small ... I just happen to have this tank around and actually have about 45 lbs of live rock in it now that I've been holding til I get the 135 up and running. Will definitely look into getting one of those containers ... thanks for the sites.

-Mike

[cooltankmate]

here is my tank
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1527097

coralife super skimmer is alright, it's the cheapest HOB skimmer i can find that can handle large tank.

[Stormvillefish]

Cooltankmate ... really nice looking tank ... still not sure which skimmer I'm getting ... looking into the octopus, the bakpak and remora pro and will be getting two for each end of the tank. If anybody has any experience with these hob skimmers and have an opinion on them ... please chime in. Thanks.
-Mike

[Snapper66]

:) Corallife Super Skimmers are the Best for the Buck they are a Medium Priced Skimmer.I have Three and Two of them are 125 Gallon Super Skimmers and a 65 Gallon super Skimmer.

[FordFiveHundred]

I have a 155 gallon tank with a Remora Pro,Fluval FX5,and a Filstar XP3 running it. I have a Blonde Naso,baby Gray Angel,Bluechin Trigger,Saddle Wrasse,and a 14 inch Bamboo Shark. Everythings great.

[Stormvillefish]

Can I add any more fish to the list I have or is that it? If I can add more ... please make some recommendations. Thanks!
-Mike

[baldomero]

i have 3 wrasses wildcaught dont know theyre names,3damsels also wild caught dont know theyre names,4soldierfish,1seargeantdamsel,1blacktrigger,1filefish,1porkfish,2blueheadwrasse,1yellowheadwra sse,1spanishhog,3featherdusters,and 4anenomes in my 150 no sump just a wet dry no bioballs just liverock rubble and a coralife superskimmer 250 on my tank and im doing just fine except for the occasional nitrate going up a little.

[Snapper66]

I Dont see why You could not add a Few more Fish in your 135 Gallon Just have a Good Protein Skimmer.