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View Full Version : Seriously... Now what?


Vapour1ze
12/11/2008, 12:22 AM
Ok first off let me admit it, I'm an idiot!

For those who actually bare with me, heres whats going on.

1. About $3,000 into my new tank,, (the one on my red house)
2. Everythings been going good so far, Had just one maroon in there until I get everything booming with her anemone and shes loving it. I also have a green chromis. Still under temporary lighting, and temporary skimmer, just a Aqua Medic Turboflotor 1000, which is plenty until I can afford a really nice one.
3. Fuge and everything is setup blah blah....

Ok sorry for stating all those things they really make no sense to what I have wrong, anywhere here it goes.

The other day, I went to my trusted LFS, ReefPlus in Aurora, He had a new shipment in, and I located this tang that I fell in love with, a GoldRim, about 4 inches long, coloration was amazing blah blah, he told me he got 4 in the day before and this was the last one, I couldn't pass it up for 30 bucks. Only thing was I saw it scratching and he noticed me observe the scratching, he replied... Yea hes been itching a bit but they all do it, Stupid enough of me I bought it as there were no visual signs and I was hoping for the best. So I bought it, got it home acclimated for a little over an hour via drip method, stupid enough to put it into the main tank and not QT, however my QT isn't really setup yet... Anyway, been in the tank now for about a week, and hes swimming all over the place eating sheets of seaweed and rod's no problem at all. But the signs of Ich are now definetly there, White blemishes on his left side, and hes scratching on everything, But hes swimming everywhere, eating. I just don't know what to do, Theres no way I'm going to be able to catch him, as my tank is in wall, so I only have a look down perspective, and hes way to fast, and can hide from me way to easily. So my question is,,, what now. I've fed garlic blah blah..

I just don't know what to do, yes I've read all the stickys so please don't post any, I'm just worried about him infecting my maroon (no signs yet) My chromis is still fine, but I really wouldn't feel bad if I lost the chromis....

Anyway.... Its just really depressing... All this money all this way, and this Friday I was planning on buying my halides for my tank, and now I'm debating what to do.....

Times like these I really hate the hobby.

ebording
12/11/2008, 12:28 AM
i had the very same delema, so i went the wait and see route. i upped my tangs nutrition intake and left him to be. so far he has gotten better.. also there is that medication that is digested. i have never used it but it is a possibility.

PaulieWalnuts
12/11/2008, 12:33 AM
well i would not put off buying the light..you tank needs that!!! keep nori sheets in the tank 24/7 soak them in garlic and vitality and hope for the best...can't treat with copper or hypo salinity in a reef tank.

the other fish are not as delicate as tangs are to catching ich. I use vitality and garlic which has helped me before...also step up the water changes...ANYthing that will stress the fish will make it worst...so perfect water is a most...make sure it keeps eating.

best of luck man

matt

Vapour1ze
12/11/2008, 12:36 AM
I might just really try the whole garlic route, and if he dies he dies, I hate to say it but, its 30 bucks... Theres nothing I can really do. From now on though I'm QTing EVERYTHING!

Vapour1ze
12/11/2008, 12:38 AM
Thanks Matt, I'm going to do a big water change tomorrow and pick up some garlic,,,, not sure if this is what your reffering to but I have the

Ocean Nutrition Green Algae Sheets, says seaweed on it,,, it was at a small pet store near me, hes been downing it,,, is that the same thing as NORI or no?

sanababit
12/11/2008, 12:39 AM
i have been living with ich in my tank for about 2 years, it comes and it goes, so dont worry, relax, feed well with garlic, keep him happy and try not to get him stressed, he will be fine....good luck

sana

PS. you said that from now on you are going to QT everything, but since you already introduced ich into your main display (hopefully is ich) makes no sense in qt anything anymore since any fish might probably catch ich one time or another, maybe you can QT for other diseases like flukes, bacterial infections and such. not trying to put you down, ich in my opinion is not that bad as some people make it out to be....

PaulieWalnuts
12/11/2008, 12:44 AM
yeah its the dried sea weed...i keep a the brown, red, and green on hand and keep that in my tank almost all the time..my tangs and angels love it. just hang in there man and slow it down i bit i know its easy to add fast but you will be happy if you wait a bit....i feel like a dick saying this because i never do that...well i am trying to at least with my new tank.

Flipper62
12/11/2008, 12:46 AM
tehauthority..........DID I NOT TELL YOU TO GO TO.... BEYOND THE REEF.?????

YOUNG GRASS HOPPER.....LISTEN & LEARN

Garlic can help to prevent ICK.....but will NOT provide any help once it is present

Vapour1ze
12/11/2008, 12:46 AM
hahahahahahahahhaa, with my 29, I flew went horrible at first and then down the road stuff wasnt to bad, now that I'm doing this 90, I told myself DO THIS ONE RIGHT, and I started going slow. And then I just get so anxious, honestly, the problem is LFS getting new shipments, I CANT RESIST! lol... =/

Vapour1ze
12/11/2008, 12:48 AM
LOL! Flipper,,,, thanks for chiming in. BTR is an hour from me... VERY SWEET STORE I've been there.... But some of there stuff seemed VERY high priced, however I was also in there for like 10 minutes because I had to fly back to work.... =/ god I should have just been an obeying young grasshopper and listened. =/ oh well, ill continue feeding with garlic and hope everything lives on, thank god corals can't get ich. :)

Flipper62
12/11/2008, 12:55 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13919150#post13919150 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tehauthority
LOL! Flipper,,,, thanks for chiming in. BTR is an hour from me... VERY SWEET STORE I've been there.... But some of there stuff seemed VERY high priced, however I was also in there for like 10 minutes because I had to fly back to work.... =/ god I should have just been an obeying young grasshopper and listened. =/ oh well, ill continue feeding with garlic and hope everything lives on, thank god corals can't get ich. :)

The only thing that will really treat ICK is a copper treatment. THIS is for the fish. you need to set up a hospital tank for the fish & treat them with copper. Also, if you do have ICK...the garlic will not do anything to help, The idea of garlic is to help the immune system of the fish to fight off any desises.

If you try to use the copper treatment in the main tank, the copper will kill all the corals & inverts....

PLEASE...STOP....IF you want....I can come out & help you before you crash everything......

Vapour1ze
12/11/2008, 01:03 AM
haha, I know how to run copper I did it on my 29 when my ocellaris got ich, cured him quick... my 29 is in the middle of turning in to a QT it has ro/di with salt mixing, but no heater and no water from my main tank yet,,, therefore I can't use it yet lol. I'm only 19,,, so funds ARE TIGHT FOR ME. =/ I don't know what to do...... personally this tank is a month old I don't want ich floating around in there for the rest of its life, I'd rather have no ich, but I hear its almost always present in most tanks,,,, but whos to say...

Flipper62
12/11/2008, 01:15 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13919225#post13919225 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tehauthority
haha, I know how to run copper I did it on my 29 when my ocellaris got ich, cured him quick... my 29 is in the middle of turning in to a QT it has ro/di with salt mixing, but no heater and no water from my main tank yet,,, therefore I can't use it yet lol. I'm only 19,,, so funds ARE TIGHT FOR ME. =/ I don't know what to do...... personally this tank is a month old I don't want ich floating around in there for the rest of its life, I'd rather have no ich, but I hear its almost always present in most tanks,,,, but whos to say...

MAN....OH...MAN...........DID I NOT JUST TELL YOU I WILL HELP YOU.????

MONEY...??? I CAN PRINT MORE...LOL LOL LOL

I would rather Help you NOT CRASH your tank. And YOU can pay me later.....Lets just keep your tank running.

Vapour1ze
12/11/2008, 01:20 AM
Print me some moreee w000t. Ha, yea man I don't care... What do you have in mind,,, I don't know what to do.

johnny313
12/11/2008, 01:26 AM
my chevron had ick and all I did was raise the temp a lil higher and fed him alot of different foods. after a few days he was better. give it time..... tangs are tough
as long as he is eating he will be fine

Flipper62
12/11/2008, 01:31 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13919311#post13919311 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by johnny313
my chevron had ick and all I did was raise the temp a lil higher and fed him alot of different foods. after a few days he was better. give it time..... tangs are tough
as long as he is eating he will be fine

SORRY.....If raising the temp is what you think cured it.......It was not ICK

Vapour1ze
12/11/2008, 01:37 AM
Flipper would do you suggest we do?

JustinReef
12/11/2008, 03:13 AM
Many, many peoples fish live with ich. People just don't want to admit it. Some of my fish have had ich for going on 3 years. It comes and goes every few months but never seems to bother the fish much. IMO as long as its under control, your fine. QT new additions though for other problems and try not to introduce more ich. Garlic helps. Vitamins, lots of feeding. Keep water quality up and you should not loose fish to ich unless its a very bad case.

I actually started asking as many people on my local forum if they have ich in their tanks and a very large amount of people had the same answer...yes, it comes and goes but never kills anything. One guy I know has had a hippo tang for 8 years and it gets ich everytime a new fish is introduced to the tank for a week or so. I also know someone with a very large tank, many, may tangs but only one or two ever get ich and the rest are fine.

In my tank, only the puffers ever get ich. About once every few months. They used to show signs every month but its been less and less as time goes on.

I wouldn't let your fish suffer but if they can get through the first big outbreak they usually do fine after that. Its a pain to see the ich come and go but unless you want to rip your tank apart, its the only choice. I actually QT'd all my fish three times treating for ich and they still get it anyways. I had to use hypo though since puffers don't handle copper well. Copper really is the only treatment. One of the biggest misconceptions is how long ich can live without a host...ich was found in one study to live as long as something like 70 days without a host. So treating with copper and leaving a display fallow for 4-6 weeks doesn't mean ich is gone from the tank.

Good luck!

JustinReef
12/11/2008, 03:15 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13919319#post13919319 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Flipper62
SORRY.....If raising the temp is what you think cured it.......It was not ICK

Actually since higher temps speed up the life cycle of ich, they will drop off much quicker and may not reappear if the fish is able to fight it off after that first initial attack. Certainly not a cure I agree but it can help. I always try to raise the temp a bit when I see ich.

JustinReef
12/11/2008, 03:18 AM
Sorry double post

Vapour1ze
12/11/2008, 03:27 AM
Thanks justin, well said... Hopefully my tang comes through!

crvz
12/11/2008, 05:13 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13919143#post13919143 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Flipper62
Garlic can help to prevent ICK.....but will NOT provide any help once it is present

I don't agree with this... if you use the logic that garlic, as a way to bolster appetite, increases the immune system and health of the fish, which gives it the ability to fight off parasites, it surely helps just as much for a fish with the parasite as it does to prevent them getting parasites.

PaulieWalnuts
12/11/2008, 06:45 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13919559#post13919559 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by crvz
I don't agree with this... if you use the logic that garlic, as a way to bolster appetite, increases the immune system and health of the fish, which gives it the ability to fight off parasites, it surely helps just as much for a fish with the parasite as it does to prevent them getting parasites.

that is my thought about it

Trigeek
12/11/2008, 06:49 AM
Feed the fish a very good diet. I would go for a seafood blend of stuff you can buy for very little money at the grocery store (scallops, squid, mussels, oysters, shrimp). Mix them in a food processor and freeze it ( I use an old formula 1 container so the stuff freezes partioned out in squares). When thawing before feeding, let it thaw in a vitamin supplement (vitachem, selcon etc.) and squeeze a fish oil capsule and fresh garlic juice (use a garlic press) onto it. You can also put an open mussel on the sand and let the tang pick at it.

My guess is the Tang was stressed from shipping, probably hadn't eaten in a day or two and the opportunistic ich moved in on her. Your cheapest and best defense is proably a good diet.

I also agree with PaulieWalnuts and crvz

eyesinthedrk
12/11/2008, 08:58 AM
fyi..... a lot of lfs's run copper in the FO live stock tanks, you can buy it and ask them to hold it for a week or twokill the ick make sure its eating blah blah,

for future refrance

aslo a few of the old croans of this sight will tell you thay have had ich for over 20 years and as long as your fish are healty the ich will stay low, if your fish are unhealthy the ich will pounce on them, ofcorse if your fish are unhealthy your more aggresive fish will pounce on them and if it gets really bad your hermits will pounce on them,

Vapour1ze
12/12/2008, 01:47 AM
sweet, heard it all before.... just never thought it was going to happen to me.... =/ got garlic today,,, tang is still eating the seaweed but won't really touch rods,,, ill try soaking in garlic tomorrow...

I also picked up a cleaner wrasse today,, who is still only about 3 hours in on the tank,,, but very active at first. and now just sitting on a rock in a crevice won't move. =/ dont know what thats about. im aware they eventually starve to death... but the interesting this is my tang actually lays next to it as if it knows it will pick on him,,, its pretty cool however I haven't witnessed any intercourse yet. =/ lol. hopefully I do never seen it happen.

Nagle
12/12/2008, 12:17 PM
The tang knows he will get cleaned by the wrasse. After awhile you will see the tang swim up to the wrasse to get cleaned.

Vapour1ze
12/12/2008, 12:44 PM
Sweet, how long does it take the wrasse to usually get acclimated and start cleaning? So far I haven't witnessed any cleaning...

Slakker
12/12/2008, 12:56 PM
You are worried that all of your fish are going to die because you added too fast and without quarantine...so to solve the problem you added another fish, without quarantining?

Seriously?

Vapour1ze
12/12/2008, 01:08 PM
....Not worried about them dieing. They've been doing fine,, I got my 2nd fish the other day who was showing signs of Ich, then bought thi cleaner Wrasse to help.. Didn't know they hid and slept in caves....... So of me being worried and now finding that out its actually 100% normal, swimming all over the place this morning, and my tang is looking way better.... I don't have a QT setup yet really. Thanks for coming off as an a$$ though... Appreciated.

phish guy
12/12/2008, 02:47 PM
dont go for a cleaner wrasse, poor survival rate. a few cleaner shrimp is a much better idea.

when my yellow had it over a year ago, he showed no symptoms for 2 months. so by this point he was in the DT, no copper allowed. i soaked his nori and live brine in either Selcon or Garlic gaurd and would add Vitaim C to the tank a few times a week. that and my trusty cleaner shrimps cleared him up in 2 weeks. it hasnt returned nor has another fish caught it.

Wind Seeker
12/12/2008, 03:33 PM
I am going to get blasted for this, but here goes. I have been there before. I have a tank full of ich magnets. Powder blue, orange shoulder, hippo and to a lesser extent, sail and naso. I have introduced fish directly into the display and have quickly become acclimated. I have also introduced ich. chances are in your case, like mine, the fish will recover, no ich seen. However, the ich is still there, just in another life cycle phase. I use ozone through a large skimmer to combat ich in the free swimming stage. Now I know there are those who say there is not enuff contact time in a skimmer. All I can say my fish show no signs of ich and are very healthy. This may take a few cycles to beat down the parasite population,. In my case in a few months time there has been no sign of ich. Although I am sure it is still present to a minimal degree.

Vapour1ze
12/12/2008, 11:19 PM
sweet thanks for the info, yes I have yet to get a cleaner ... lol (shrimp)

Slakker
12/12/2008, 11:23 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13928889#post13928889 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tehauthority
Thanks for coming off as an a$$ though... Appreciated.

Thanks for buying a species that does extremely poorly in captivity to try to solve a problem that could have been avoided in the first place.

The reefs appreciate it.:rolleyes:

Vapour1ze
12/12/2008, 11:24 PM
:D Thanks for the info. I'll write it down. Good Night.

bladeyamaha
12/12/2008, 11:33 PM
kickich works it got bad reviews but it worked for me

PaulieWalnuts
12/12/2008, 11:36 PM
what about a big uv....my LFS runs a HUGE one to fight it....and i am now using a 57watt so i will let you know how its goes

Vapour1ze
12/13/2008, 12:59 AM
will do matt as always keep me informed.

jenglish
12/13/2008, 01:23 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13919480#post13919480 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by justinpsmith
Actually since higher temps speed up the life cycle of ich, they will drop off much quicker and may not reappear if the fish is able to fight it off after that first initial attack. Certainly not a cure I agree but it can help. I always try to raise the temp a bit when I see ich.

Raising the temp will speed the life cycle of FW ich, but not crypto, SW ich.

marine ich is under the slime coat so most cleaners can do very little to actually remove it. they tend to get it as it is falling off anyway and moving to the next stage of life.

a sterilizer will kill the free swimming stage and can help control it.
Garlic may or may not help, has never been proven in a lab but many believe it has helped and it really can't hurt. Allacin a compound in garlic has been shown to have some properties that boost immune response and discourage parasites from feeding.

you can try to make the best treatment w/ garlic, UV, good food, and low stress or you can try to cure it in QT w/ hyposalinity or copper. SOme people have ich under control for years and while the fish have it, they seem to do OK w/ it. I have heard some say it will constantly distress them to a certaind degree but thats debateable.

I have seen figures that 5% overall and 15% of tangs wild caught have ich. SO it is not as common in the wild as it is in fish tanks. Some will tell you it is in every tank. THere are many ways to go about dealing with it. None are guaranteed to work or work best for you. HTH

Tonblogna
12/13/2008, 01:23 AM
I didn't read all the posts, but if no one said it, vitamin C tablets seem to help my fish when I made that mistake. Just like the one you or I would take

Vapour1ze
12/13/2008, 01:29 AM
Thanks, yes it has been mentioned... Any particular brand?

bryman
12/13/2008, 01:56 AM
tehauthority,
I usually head out to Reef Plus several times a month, and have been a little more dissapointed lately. My Orchid Dottyback is from there and is doing great, and I bought my new 90G tank/stand from there as well. Steve is a really nice guy, but I don't know about the business anymore. Last time I went there, he had taken down the really sweet SPS / clam show tank in the front. All the FO tanks were covered with cyano and some had dead/dying fish. It was actually pretty sad. And I know there's no such thing as QT at this store. He does get some pretty nice ORA frags and fish though. It's pretty much a roll of the dice for all of us that don't have a QT setup at home :(. I don't think I'll ever buy another fish there unless I have a QT setup. Hope your tang pulls through!

Vapour1ze
12/13/2008, 02:33 AM
tang is getting better,,, still havent seen a real GRAIN OF SALT SIGN OF ICH but just white blemishes I'm thinking from scratching they are starting to heal over, maybe the time in my tanks water is helping along with the garlic and wrasse.... anyway yes reef plus is going way down hill,

all his fish are looking terrible lately, his best tank is taken down, and im just really dissappointed,,,, beyond the reef is now my one and only! :D

vito is hooked
12/13/2008, 08:29 AM
I dont care if there is no PROOF that soaking your food in garlic get's ick off your fish, I BELIEVE, and so does my ACHILLIES. (ICK MAGNET ) GOOD LUCK and KEEP SOAKING. :beachbum:

PaulieWalnuts
12/13/2008, 11:38 AM
yep i agree garlic at least helps or if nothing else makes me feel like i am doing something for the fish....but i think it helps!

PaulieWalnuts
12/13/2008, 11:42 AM
not to steal this but may help use all...if you feed frozen food...rinse the off then soak in the in garlic and vitality....how long should i soak for and do you strain again before putting in the tank or add the garlic in with the food....that might be stupid but i sometimes wonder if i am am doing it right.

Dante_JoseCuerv
12/13/2008, 12:28 PM
Ugh... did Steve really tell you that? I'm gonna have to get on his *** about **** like that.

Vapour1ze
12/13/2008, 02:06 PM
thanks ! ^^