dinoflagellates!!!errrgh!!!! make it stop!

[dmilne85]

if you can not sense my frustration in the title let me tell you again. this .stuff. stinks! Here is my situation: before i realized what awful stuff this was i thought it was cynobacteria. so i thought my tank was just going through a phase and it would pass. however this has gotten worse and worse. after reading a little bit i found out its dinoflagellates, and now its all over my rocks, sandbed, everywhere. i will mention some info on my setup so you guys can help me out here.

My tank:
120 gallon sps reef- w/40 gallon sump/fuge, moderate fish load, fed once a day, along with zeovit aminoacids,coral food, coralvitalizer and phols extra.

equip: 2 vortechs for flow, deltec 851(rated for 400gal)
i also have always had a large bag of carbon in sump along with bag of purigen phosphate remover.

nutrients- nitrate/phosphate do not register on my salifert test kits however thats not saying much since i have this problem. however chetomorpah algae does not grow in my tank at all, even under a halide lamp in sump.

with that being said what should i do? i do biweekly water changes(25%) and that doesnt help at all. i run carbon, i run phosphate remover, i feed moderatly.... what should i do. im afriad to do anything drastic because of the sensitive sps corals. i heard you should raise ph to 8.6 but im afriad of shocking corals if i did that.

[Shiandy]

How long has the tank been setup ? and could you post a pic ?

[dmilne85]

tank has been up and running for 2 1/2 yrs, however was moved 2000 miles, and got a new sandbed 5 months ago. i can post some pics when i get home from work this evening. im 100% sure its dyno's. its brown, snotty, bubbly, and floats to surface. i have a little cynobacteria but its not bad. does anything eat this stuff?? i hear its toxic so im assuming not much will touch it.

[Shiandy]

I had an outbreak myself a year back, and I managed to rid mine by reducing the photo period. I also did a 3 day light's off period once a month for 3 months.

I also found water changes can make the problem worse, its a difficult one, but try reducing your photo period to maybe 4hrs if you start to notice an improvement then you know your on the right track.

There's a good thread about the risks / benefits of a 3 days light's off, but can't find the link atm.

[dmilne85]

hm, ok thank you. yeah i saw that lights off for 3 days thread, im just worried about the sps, and the toxins realeasing from dinos if i keep lights off

[fishysteve]

I thought conchs sometimes eat dinos, but it paralyzes other snails.

[SunnyX]

Raising Ph via kalk and a shortened lighting period are usually the best ways to go.

A great way to kill them off, I have found, is to out compete them for resources. When I got rid of mine I began to add Prodibio Biodigest along with vodka. This, along with a reduced photoperiod and higher Ph wiped them out within a week.

Give it a shot and dont let up! Dino's can be a pain to get rid of but this method is tried and true.

[goreefer]

I have finally one the battle after dealing with it for about a year. I too went the 'lights off' for not three but 6 days. The first time that I did only three days it was back in about two weeks. So I doubled it the next time. I also read that UV would help, so I added a UV unit.
This is in a 20L frag tank. The frags only improved after the 6 days of no light.
The other thing that I did was to keep the ALK above 8.7 for two weeks.

[dmilne85]

what type of frags did you have? what was there reaction after 6 days with no light? they didnt bleach/get stressed with no light?

also when you both mention no light. are you going NOOO light at all, cover tank up with blanket type thing? or just no tank lights on?

[Diatome]

Definitely stop the water changes. They just make it worse. As for carbon, run a lot of it and change it once a week. I had to rinse mine regularly and then change each week. I went with a reduced light period (4 hours tops) a day and raising PH.

Would I go lights out myself? I probably would. Corals do not have constant light in the wild. Trust me, ticking off a few corals is less trouble than tearing down the tank and throwing it in the street. felt like that until I tried upping my PH.

[goreefer]

I have a verity of SPS and zoas. They really didn't seem to be effected by the lights off period.
Dino's are in the same family as 'Red Tide'. They really need the light for growth more than the corals.
Trust us, the lights out really works.
I did not cover my tank, but it is in a low light area.

[goreefer]

I also ment to say that I raised the Ph above 8.7, not the ALK which I keep around 9.0.

[michaeldaly]

I had this problem when my tank was about six months old. All I did was frequent water changes each time using airline tubing to carefully syphon as much of the stuff out as possible. You could also at the same time try increasing the ph slightly.

Winthin a few months they were all gone and have not returnd since.

[dmilne85]

thats true, i just hate waiting for corals to color back up after they get stressed. sometimes it takes 2 months for mine to rebound. i think im going to try this lights out for 3 days and go from there.

[moonyguy]

I had the same horrible experience. I cut down my photo period, replaced my sand bed and washed all my live rock. My snails that grazed on my live rock and my kole tang all died. Only later did I realize that Dinos are actually poisonous. Keep at it and they will go away.

[dmilne85]

^ yikes! hopefullly i wont need to replace rock/sand. tomorrow my tank will not be getting any light and im going to throw a fresh bag of carbon in. we will see what happens *crossing fingers*

[DidYouSayReefer]

If you have a new sand bed your tank is most likely still cycling since it is not mature yet. Did you get some new live sand (not the bagged kind) to make sure the sand gets stirred by all of the micro-fauna? Keep up with your maintenance and it will pass. Lights out won't do much, only stunt it slightly. Not a long term solution. Might help the electric bill, though.

[Cove Beach]

First thing is you need to find its food source. First off make sure your RODI is doing its job. Its amazing how a weak DI cartridge will mess things up. Secondly are you running filter socks on drains or skimmer output? if you are how are you cleaning them? If you are washing them in the laundry like some people do and i did in the past. STOP! I found that to be the cause of this in my tank. Washing the socks in tap water loads them with all the stuff we are using the RODI filter to keep out. As soon as i quit washing them in the laundry the stuff died off and has not come back.

[dmilne85]

i do not use filter socks. and i just replaced prefilter cartridges and di memebrane. tds is zero..... really this stuff is flurishing on the most "insignificant" amounts of nutrients. cheatomorpha algae doesnt even grow in my tank. its been the same size for months! tank has been runing well past cycling stages-5 months(plus liverock/livestock ive had for almost 3 yrs)

[jd474]

i have had granular ferric oxide (phosban) clear it up fairly quickly the two times i've had it. make sure to run it through a fluidized bed filter (phosban reactor, or other similar DIY reactor). +1 about the carbon also. should take care of it within a week or two.

[saltaholic]

I have come to the conclusion that no matter how good you are with a tank, you are going to have issues till the 1 yr mark. The only advice I can give is to not give up and be consistent witht the tank husbandry, and I swear you will wake up one day and its gone!!

I have set up a few tanks and they have all been the same. First cyano, then dinos then both.... and on and on!! Then finally like turning off a faucet its gone.

[DidYouSayReefer]

It is pretty well known, although commonly forgotten, that a cycle lasts much longer than one month. While ammonia is most likely not accumulating, the tank is still cycling. It is just not the way most people think of it. Just like saltaholic mentioned, you will probably have these issues till the one year mark. Your rock is established but your sand bed is not. You are almost starting from scratch. There is much more surface area in the sand than on the rock. This is part of the reason the lbs of rock per gallon rule is only partially true. A good mature sand bed will process nutrient much faster than LR. Make sure you have used some good live sand, not the bagged stuff, to help with the process. You want lots of worms, pods, and micro-fauna to stir the bed. Since you have established rock, these will most likely begin to populate your bed. It never hurts to get some good LS and a couple more pounds of LR from a LFS to re-seed your system. Don't have it shipped because everything you want will most likely die. Sorry for the long rant. You can find most of this info in different articles of RK mag. Good Luck!