Ahhhh AGA Drain Help

[fordsvt04]

Ok im so confused on whats happening..... I have a 120 aga rr tank that I jsut did a leak test on.....well good for me no leaks.... but one prob which I dont understand..... it allmost like a wake maker.....is drains then stops then drains then stops....the water level in the overflows are going up and down up and down..... so therefore in the sump its a blow of water then slows way down then a blow and then slows down.... What could I be doing wrong.... the drain is not a straight shot it does have a per where is goes up a little (like a inch or two) could that be the prob? Its spa flex...

[fordsvt04]

i guess you can say the drain speed is not consistiant. I have the mega overflow kit.

[avshockey311]

Yes if the drain has a spot that is rises that could cause your surging. How far from the tank to the sump? And how big of a pump are you using?

[fordsvt04]

sump is to the right of the tank 10 feet...... using a dart wich is also running other eqpt so flow of cut down alot. How could I stop the surge?

[Slakker]

Look into Durso or Stockman standpipes, sounds like your drains are siphoning.

[indianagrays]

you can always drill and add a airline to the top 90 elbow to allow it more air....

basic plumbing, you must have air behind the water for it to flow down due to gravity, otherwise you get a vacuum and it slows way down....which is what is happening

at some point the mass of the water in the tube is reaching a high enough point that the vacuum on the drain line is enough for it to suck air from the inlet hard enough to break the siphon, so the water can continue on it's journey down

this is what is happening, happened to me once too, where my drain bulkhead comes out of the back of my tank i drilled a .25" hole in the apex of the 90 elbow and inserted a 8 inch piece of airline tubing, this gives it the extra air volume it needed to keep continuous flow

[Playa-1]

Do you have dual overflow and do you have the dual drain lines tied together? If so, Then separate them and have them drain independently of each other.

Also try and slow the flow down more to the DT and see how that effects the drain problem. It's possible your just running too much volume thru the drain pipes.

[GTriever]

For future reference, after the tank's been in operation for a while check to see if the hole on top of the standpipe is clogged by salt residue. That's a common problem with the AGA kits.

[fordsvt04]

evyone keeps saying I need a durso and put a hole in the top. I have the Mega Flow Overflow kit wich is a durso or is it not? It Also has a hole in the top of it and two big one on the side? Is the hole not big enough on the top? Flow... well yea I have a dart but it is alot of head loss and also runs other eqpt. So it cant be too much flow. I think it is going to be the curve up in the pipe like one of you said....its almost like a sink trap look and maybe thats it. I just have to figure out a way to get rid of that.

[Patow]

I have an AGA 90 gal display with the Mega Flow as well, and had the same problem when I first set up my system.

Here was my initial sump placement in my fish room:

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a16/daveisaromo/Fish162.jpg

I have about 12ft vertical headloss, 20ft horizontal, and a couple slow 90 turns along the way. My display is on the opposite end of my house as my sump.

Since I was using the clear braided hose, I was able to see the water travelling, and the drain line was bottlenecking along the way at a point with a VERY slight vertical rise. This was causing stalls in water flow, constant "restarts", and a lot of noise. The water would collect there, and once it was built up, it would burst through and dump a pile of water into the sump. The drain would then restart. It didn't take a lot; maybe a 1/2" rise at most. You can't see it in this picture as it was in the ceiling.

So I decided to re-do my fish room. :) Like I needed an excuse to tinker.....

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a16/daveisaromo/NewSump.jpg

I moved the sump, and took out about 6ft of hose on both the return and drain. This also eliminated that vertical rise, and resolved all water flow/noise issues. It runs like a dream now.

If you have clear hose, you should be able to isolate the problem. If not, I'll bet that your vertical rise is the culprit. Try to remove it and not restrict water flow in any capacity. Add a ball valve to your return line so you can control water flow if it is too much after you fix the drain issue.

Best of luck. Merry Xmas and a Happy New Year!

Dave

[fordsvt04]

thanks patow i will try that ill let ya know

[atkinsg]

I have a AGA125 with dual mega flows, and the drain lines loop down under the stand then up about 6 inches through a hole in the wall to my sump on the other side. It worked great for several, months then started surging and making noise like fordsvt04 describes. I found that the MAG return pump I am using was a bit gunked up and not providing enough flow. After cleaning the pump the drains started working properly again.

[Playa-1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14022147#post14022147 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by fordsvt04
evyone keeps saying I need a durso and put a hole in the top. I have the Mega Flow Overflow kit wich is a durso or is it not? It Also has a hole in the top of it and two big one on the side? Is the hole not big enough on the top? Flow... well yea I have a dart but it is alot of head loss and also runs other eqpt. So it cant be too much flow. I think it is going to be the curve up in the pipe like one of you said....its almost like a sink trap look and maybe thats it. I just have to figure out a way to get rid of that.

Well, You will have to start somewhere with a process of elimination. What other equipment are you running off the Dart and how much headloss? The dual megaflow is rated at about 1200gph in a perfect world. Reeflo Dart Flow Rate @ 4` Head: 2820gph. Horizontal pipe doesn't contribute much to head pressure. Assuming your plumbing is less then perfect (2820-1200= 1620gph) That's a whole-lotta volume to diffuse thru a couple pieces of equipment and a couple foot of head pressure. But you've totally dismissed the idea, I find that interesting.

[fordsvt04]

because like I said I have turned it way down to a point where it wasnt giving out any water and then turned it up a notch.... and i have a bunch of elbows to get the return to the tank. I have a 1200 gal powerhead in there and it is way more powerful then what is comming out of the tank......... this was also happening when I had the hose in it to fill it up from a sink turned on really low.....thats why im dismissing the flow rate. I do belive patow has the answer or someone who said to make the hole in the top of the durso bigger.

[Playa-1]

I C

The vertical rise along with trapped air could be your problem. I have had my plumbing set up like that in the past and didn't have problems with it. Some other ideas include.

I've found that too much air or too little air can cause drain noise, You may need to search for a balance. You might try expanding the vent hole and/or installing an adjustable air valve on the durso to give you more control. I also use a drain air vent in the plumbing near the sump to allow any trapped air a way to escape.

Here's a method that somebody else had used to solve their problem. I don't remember who posted this but I saved the image for future reference.
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/1588981531sumpsilencer_II.jpg

Good luck with solving your problem and let us know what solution you have success with.

[Patow]

Everyone is making good points. I'm just sharing my experience with you as this is what worked for my system.

When I was first diagnosing my issue, I started with my return pump as the culprit as I figured I just wasn't moving enough water. Afterall, I have a ton of headloss. I originally had a Quiet One 3000 from my old setup at my previous house, and I was hoping to be frugal and save some cash. Barely trickled water into my display.

So I went to a Mag 36, but returned that within minutes as I couldn't stand the sound of what was comparable to living beside an airport runway. :)

Then I got a Quiet One 4000 High Head. Got about 3x turnover. Still not enough for me, and was noisier than I had hoped. I had to suspend the pump to quiet it down, and even then, I wasn't happy.

I settled on the OR6500. Dead quiet! I have a spare bedroom adjacent to the fish room, and you can't hear a thing. Courtesy for guests. :)

With my old sump placement, the OR6500 was giving me about 4x turnover in my display. Filled in 15 mins. Once I moved the sump, I'm up to about 5x turnover as I removed some headloss from the system.

The one other thing that I did was to change out the 3/4" return hose that I originally used, and replaced it with 1". I ran this up to the display bulkhead where I then had to reduce to 3/4" to accomodate the stock Mega Flow plumbing. This also attributed to the increased water movement.

I noticed a marked improvement in water movement, but didn't completely eliminate the surging/noise issues. Better, but still not up to the standards that I set for this system.

That's when I took down all the ceiling tiles and watched the water movement, and isolated the bottleneck at the vertical rise.

Between a better return pump, increased return plumbing diameter, and removing vertical rises on the drain lines, my system runs dead quiet. People that come to my house comment on how quiet my system is.

Any other questions, just let me know.

Cheers,

Dave